Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

Catherineanne · May 26, 2015

Kirsten said:
I don't know where you got this definition, but it is not biblical.

The term 'Christian' is not the term used by Christ to denote his followers; it is first used in Acts, so it is a bit daft to expect the term to be 'Biblical'. If we followed what Christ himself said we would call ourselves followers of The Way.

Jaywalk · May 26, 2015

Givemeareason said:
I like that point of view but I have not read where Jesus said that. So if the old testament is simply not our primary source of guidance why do so many Christians seem to be using it that way?

Well, the Old Testament didn't just evaporate. Keep in mind that when Jesus talks about scripture he was talking about the Old Testament; the New Testament hadn't been written yet. Matthew 5:17-18 explicitly states that he didn't come to abolish the law of the Old Testament. The Christian church still considers the Old Testament to be scripture and there is a great deal of history and wisdom there that a Christian ignores at their peril.

That said, there are places where the principles of the Old Testament are overturned by the New. For example, Mark 7:19 overturns the explicit rules for clean versus unclean foods. Matthew 23 is an extended list of the wrong way to read scripture. If your interpretations come up with a result that ignores principles like faith, hope, love and justice, it's probably time to rethink your interpretations. The religious leaders of Jesus' time had come up with a list of "explanations" on how to read scripture that worked out to their benefit.

Which may be why some Christians head for the Old Testament. One thing you always need to watch out for is the tendency to interpret scripture the way you want it to read rather than as it was written. It is a human failing that you'll need to guard against and the Old Testament has a lot of obscure laws (What's wrong with planting two kinds of seed? Leviticus 19:19) and weird stories (I have no idea what to do with Exodus 4:24-26.). That sort of thing can lend itself to what my professors used to call a "tortured reading" where the reader twists the words to get the results he wants. There are plenty of people in the world who is less interested in what God has to say than in what they want to say themselves.

Kirsten · May 26, 2015

Colter said:
Coinciding with Jesus' attempt to carry the message to the Jews that they had been chosen for was the reality that Jesus' gospel was going to be rejected by the same. Jesus had explained that laying down his life and taking it up again for proof of his authority. Returning to heaven was also a benefit to man as he poured out his spirit up all mankind.

Jesus upbraided Peter because he suggested that Jesus not go through with the Fathers will.

The Father's will was that He give His life for the sins of the world. Peter was just as confused as you are.

Tellastory · May 26, 2015

bhsmte said:
No matter what your beliefs in regards to Jesus and following him, there will be a group out there telling you that you are not a Christian.

They would be wrong and it is not their place to say so to any professing believer or even a former believer since that foundation has been laid and is unremoveable, albeit, they are not abiding in Him as His disciples.

It is the judgment of correcting saved believers to be abiding in Him & His words as kept in the KJV to be His disciples is the job of any disciple.

Paul warned about wicked and evil men as not all having that faith in Jesus Christ and not following after the tradition taught of us and as a result, were disorderly, but if they are not corrected, we are commanded to withdraw to admonish them as brothers still.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;....14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

That being written after the second chapter warning of the falling away from the faith and how that iniquity after the workings of Satan was already at work even in the churches back then where Paul had to remind them when they had received the Holy Spirit the first time and that was at the same time they had the belief of the truth and that was when they had heard the gospel. That means all those believers out there today testifying to receiving the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign, even a sign of tongues which comes with no interpretation.... is not of Him. That is the iniquity Paul spoke of.

And yet we are to withdraw from them if they refuse repentance to admonish them as brothers still.

ananda · May 26, 2015

FireDragon76 said:
Well, Messianic Jews have no authority in my book.

They'd probably say the same about you

No offense meant - just saying that there are interpreters on all sides of the aisle.

I'd rather go with Paul's letters, several of which specifically target the Jewish purity codes that some Christians were trying to impose on the gentiles. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles, he was part of fulfilling the Messiah's mission. It seems to me a lot of Messianic Jews overrun his theology altogether.

Sounds like the eleven were the apostles to the Gentiles (Matthew 28:16-20): "Then the eleven disciples ... Jesus came and spake unto them ... teach all nations ... teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" ... I suppose that should include Matthew 5:18.

jmldn2 · May 26, 2015

You asked the

Givemeareason said:
Since I love Jesus and would like to follow him, I will decide how I want to do so amongst all the denominational choices I have. Look at the mormons, they even have another book. And look at other protestants who have taken nine books back out of the original bible. I am not interested in disagreements amongst denominations. I cannot see why I cannot be a Christian just as I am.

You asked the question and I gave a reply. I'm sorry if it was not what you were looking for in an answer. I read the bible to learn about God, Jesus Christ, and many other things. I don't go by denominations either but I cannot lean about God without His Word.

ananda · May 26, 2015

Architeuthus said:
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit -- that does not say "teach them to observe Jewish purity codes."

And the Epistle to the Galatians argues very forcefully against that idea.

Jesus in Matthew 28:16-20 said: "Then the eleven disciples ... Jesus came and spake unto them ... teach all nations ... teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" ... I suppose that should include Matthew 5:18.

Wild Branches · May 26, 2015

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. . . I am thrilled for you! May you discover the plan the LORD God has for your life . . . The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. . . I couldn't agree more! Jesus is a wonderful Messiah, full of love, mercy and grace! . . . So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. . . Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. . . Jesus quoted and taught completely from the "Old Testament", did He not? . . . So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. . . You are correct that Jesus' audience was completely Jewish. However, was Jesus' message only for Jews? Wouldn't that mean that ALL of His message is strictly for Jews and not just part of it since, as you pointed out, He was speaking strictly to Jewish people? Is Jesus' message for everyone or not? Romans 11 gives us a very good perspective of how gentile believers fit into God's promise. It tells us that gentiles are identified as children of Israel, not the natural branches but grafted in through the vine which is Messiah. ALL the promises of the covenant ("Old Testament") God made with Abraham are for both Jewish and Gentile believers. But along with the covenant comes responsibility. We are to be obedient to God and that is what the LAW is for, to teach us to be obedient. . . . The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. . . There are many references to our Messiah in the "Old Testament" The Bible is not two books, it is one and it is ALL God's Word! The entirety of God's Word testifies to who our Messiah is! . . . So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists? . . . God's house is not a denomination. God's house is the body of believers who follow Messiah. If your question is "which church should I belong to" then I would suggest you direct your question to God Almighty. Ask Him where He wants you. He will lead you there. I wish you all the best in your journey and I will be praying for you too. Trust God to guide you on the path that He has for you. Lots of love!

ananda · May 26, 2015

Architeuthus said:
No. Indeed, I think that to be a Christian, accepting the Nicene Creed would be the minimum in terms of belief.

Different brands of Christians existed well before the Nicene creed.

Colter · May 26, 2015

Kirsten said:
The Father's will was that He give His life for the sins of the world. Peter was just as confused as you are.

That's the post-cross theory, but in the original gospel, both Father and Son were already forgiving without Pagan sacrifices. Salvation was real, a person faced their sin and separation from God and then made a life commitment to doing Gods will. In the new gospel about Jesus he was made into a scapegoat.

"For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven." Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this man who even forgives sins?"…

FullEnglishBrekkie · May 26, 2015

Givemeareason said:
As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

Hi Givemeareason

Perhaps you consider what you mean by "Christian", the source of all you know about Christ and then reflect on whether you are cherry-picking from the Bible - believing the parts that you want to and choosing not to believe those parts that perhaps might make being a Christian too challenging? How can one decide what parts are to be believed and what parts are not to be believed?

kcmonseysr · May 26, 2015

Colter said:
No, I would say Paul was entirely sincere, he was the first great evangelist preaching his understanding of the gospel. The NT is almost entirely Pauls version of the gospel. Many people have had spiritual awakenings.

I can't help but to think maybe that Paul being "...a chosen instrument..." gives him an edge over "Many people [who] have had spiritual awakenings" - and maybe I make a rash assumption here, but I am thinking that these "many people" that you refer to are not the [human] authors of the NT.

Paul took the Truth seriously, and I would posit that being "sincere" does not it of itself make for truth.

1 Cor 15:13-15 – NASB - But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we witnessed against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.

So then, it would seem that you are calling Paul a sincere propagator of error??? Just wondering...

justlookinla · May 26, 2015

ananda said:
Different brands of Christians existed well before the Nicene creed.

This.

marineimaging · May 26, 2015

Givemeareason said:
As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them...

Would we really like to become like Christ's disciples? Consider first that they were chosen and decided to give up everything to follow him. What have you given up? Everything..., or just a few things..., or nothing? Consider that the disciples were also imprisoned, blinded, crucified, beheaded, laughed at and spat upon by people in the streets because they took a stand for an unpopular cause. Is that what you mean by follow? The disciples took the good message and spread the word as best they could about the land. Is that your chosen task? Where would your knowledge of Jesus the anointed one, Christ, and his message come from except the Bible? Do you want to stand up in front of a crowd of people and speak out against homosexual behavior, adulterous behavior, money changers, vain makeup and tattoos, open cursing and lack of respect for others, doing as the Bible says word for word..., and STILL following the Commandments given by God. All the while being one who has the scars of all of these features on your own body and in your own life past? Will you argue that books were added and removed for a reason because you studied deeper into the subject? Do you understand why the prophesy said that Jesus would be in the grave for three days and yet we have Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday with just one day between? Was that really three days? To follow Christ means to love Him and to love Him you must understand Him. Where does your knowledge of Him come from? Does it come from listening to other people, or does it come from the Word of God? We are ALL babes in Christ. Children with little understanding of Gods ways. We are all taking baby steps and advancing just one day at a time while the notion of perfection in Gods word keeps moving away and teasing us for more. I would be first in line to turn away from any man who says that he knows everything about God, the Bible, and Gods intentions. May God bless your journey for that is what it is. A lifetime journey of discovery of how deeply our Lord's love for us is. Be ready to sacrifice out of love and to do a lot of soul searching.

Colter · May 26, 2015

kcmonseysr said:
I can't help but to think maybe that Paul being "...a chosen instrument..." gives him an edge over "Many people [who] have had spiritual awakenings" - and maybe I make a rash assumption here, but I am thinking that these "many people" that you refer to are not the [human] authors of the NT.

Paul took the Truth seriously, and I would posit that being "sincere" does not it of itself make for truth.

1 Cor 15:13-15 – NASB - But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we witnessed against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.

So then, it would seem that you are calling Paul a sincere propagator of error??? Just wondering...

* There is resurrection of the dead, I have no conflict with that. My point has been Jesus taught his gospel before the cross, (faith, surrender and dedication to doing Gods will in our life) Paul's gospel became focused on the cross as the central thing.

* Jesus had the power to lay down his life and the power to take it up again. He did just that.

"The Jews then said to Him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

jimbohank · May 26, 2015

Givemeareason said:
As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?[/QUOTE

Good for you! Once you decide to follow Yeshua, the more your eyes will be opened by God and the more you will desire to read His Word and seek His face. It is important to remember, though, that Yeshua came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. Though we are under a new covenant and are not forced to live like the Jews, if we love Yeshua and want to try and walk as He teaches us, then we desire more and more to shed the weight of the world and live our lives in His will, not our own. It doesn't mean we don't stumble and fall...constantly...but God has already made a way for us with that through His Son, Yeshua. It is like the love of a parent and their new born child. Would we as parents, who intimately love our child, condemn our child because it stumbled while trying to crawl for the first time or fell while trying to walk for the first time? We instead encourage them and pick them up, extremely proud of what they are doing! Imagine a perfectly loving Father and how He feels about us trying to even crawl in His Word! God's Word is infinitely layered and meaningful but it is very important to follow context. This is where false doctrine comes from and is a "stumbling stone" to the true Church, those who truly follow Yeshua, Jesus Christ. If someone's heart desires to follow Jewish tradition and Jewish law to show their love for Him then how excited should we be as lover's of Yeshua! You are on a path that God want's you to be on. We do need to remember that the river of the water of life flows from Yahweh the Father and through Yeshua, the Son, Jesus Christ. There is only one way to Yahweh and the river of the water of life and that is through Yeshua.

Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Way and The Truth and The Life; no man comes to my Father but by me alone.” John 14:6

kcmonseysr · May 26, 2015

Colter said:
* There is resurrection of the dead, I have no conflict with that. My point has been Jesus taught his gospel before the cross, (faith, surrender and dedication to doing Gods will in our life) Paul's gospel became focused on the cross as the central thing.

* Jesus had the power to lay down his life and the power to take it up again. He did just that.

"The Jews then said to Him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

Not really totally disagreeing with you on these two factoids. Just saying that Paul was "ordained" by Jesus (after His death, burial, and resurrection - indeed proving His authority as well as redeeming those who trust in Him) to preach the Gospel to all men. And, therefore, Paul's teachings, his writings, are an authoritative (inspired by God) continuation of what Jesus taught; and not a new innovation or a new gospel from Paul in or of himself. Even Peter agreed with this -

2 Peter 3:14-17 – NASB - Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

jimbohank · May 26, 2015

marineimaging said:
Would we really like to become like Christ's disciples? Consider first that they were chosen and decided to give up everything to follow him. What have you given up? Everything..., or just a few things..., or nothing? Consider that the disciples were also imprisoned, blinded, crucified, beheaded, laughed at and spat upon by people in the streets because they took a stand for an unpopular cause. Is that what you mean by follow? The disciples took the good message and spread the word as best they could about the land. Is that your chosen task? Where would your knowledge of Jesus the anointed one, Christ, and his message come from except the Bible? Do you want to stand up in front of a crowd of people and speak out against homosexual behavior, adulterous behavior, money changers, vain makeup and tattoos, open cursing and lack of respect for others, doing as the Bible says word for word..., and STILL following the Commandments given by God. All the while being one who has the scars of all of these features on your own body and in your own life past? Will you argue that books were added and removed for a reason because you studied deeper into the subject? Do you understand why the prophesy said that Jesus would be in the grave for three days and yet we have Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday with just one day between? Was that really three days? To follow Christ means to love Him and to love Him you must understand Him. Where does your knowledge of Him come from? Does it come from listening to other people, or does it come from the Word of God? We are ALL babes in Christ. Children with little understanding of Gods ways. We are all taking baby steps and advancing just one day at a time while the notion of perfection in Gods word keeps moving away and teasing us for more. I would be first in line to turn away from any man who says that he knows everything about God, the Bible, and Gods intentions. May God bless your journey for that is what it is. A lifetime journey of discovery of how deeply our Lord's love for us is. Be ready to sacrifice out of love and to do a lot of soul searching.

These things can only come through His power, not our own. We must first learn how to crawl before we can learn to stand and then walk and then run. Asking the question and seeking His face is a start and should be encouraged. We need to allow Yeshua to be our savior not us. We need to encourage and lead and do it in love. The world will get more distracting the closer we get to the coming of the Lord and as close as we are right now, the distractions will make it very hard for anyone not seeking to see the truth.

Givemeareason · May 26, 2015

Fromgenesis said:
Hi Colter, which parts of the OT did Jesus seem to indicate had errors? Please quote Scripture.

I don't want to turn this into a debate but how about this verse. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Now some might accept that on faith. But I could just as easily prove that the sun revolves around the earth. All I need do is observe it and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

justlookinla · May 26, 2015

Givemeareason said:
I don't want to turn this into a debate but how about this verse. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Now some might accept that on faith. But I could just as easily prove that the sun revolves around the earth. All I need do is observe it and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

In the beginning, something or someone created the heavens and the earth.

Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

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