Why is it that Job's friends get condemned and Job gets a free pass? The three friends only had to offer up seven bulls and seven rams to be accepted by God, while Job had to offer up everything he had.
When reading the conversations between Job and his friends we need to be aware that the friends are Godly men but they have a preconception about the way God works which didn't match reality. In their worldview, blessings where a sign of God's favor while curses where a sign of God's disfavor. The problem was that Job's friends couldn't see past this view of God and so assumed that Job was hiding some great sin. In their minds because he had experienced great misfortune he must have done something terrible that he needed to confess and repent of.
The reality was that Job hadn't done anything wrong for which he was being punished, quite the opposite. Tremendous misfortune came upon him because Job was so faithful and Satan wanted to demonstrate that if all the blessing was taken away then Job would cease to serve God. So it wasn't for sin that Job suffered, but for outstanding righteousness. This didn't fit Job's friends worldview, and so they failed to allow their knowledge that Job was an upstanding and righteous man to inform their advice to him.
They weren't condemned for their error, they were simply mistaken and gave Job bad advice because of it.
Why is it that Job's friends get condemned and Job gets a free pass? The three friends only had to offer up seven bulls and seven rams to be accepted by God, while Job had to offer up everything he had.
Hi,
Job did not know what was going on when it happened. He only knew what was going on after he saw God. And it was only then that he recanted. He recanted possibly because, by seeing God, he knew what happened in heaven. One indication of that is that he wrote about what happened in heaven, and his speech beforehand was anything but understanding what was going on.
Notice, on the friends, God said only two of those friends spoke incorrectly about God.
Job did not have to give up everything. God allowed Satan to take away everything but not kill him. Notice his wife was not hurt nor killed ever. Note he lost all of his children property and then later health.
Job was all about God putting Satan in his place. God did not have to do this. He just called him on his words. When the sons of God came up to God, Satan was with them. (notice, Satan is not a son of God, he is with them. He is not one of them.) When Satan, who Jesus tells us to treat always as a liar, is asked what he was doing he replies with an answer, we are to say or suspect is a total lie. "I've been patrolling the earth"
God is now all set to put Satan in his place and tell us all something. He is going to tell us that what He, God knows is always more accurate than what Satan says.
"Have you seen my man Job? There is not a more rightious person on earth.." Satan responds with, "that is because you give him lots of gifts.... If you take away all he has, he will curse you.", Or something like that.
God then calls Satan on his words. In effect God says: 'Oh yeah, prove it. Take away all he has but do not kill him. You think you know ,more than I do about him. Go for it!' Satan does that. Job is still rightious. He does not curse God and Satan killed his family and took away all of his possessions. God was right. He knew more than Satan. It is not over though.
Again the sons of God, possibly adopted, possible Jesus and in a way his brother to God called the sent one, the Holy Spirt, or something else, those sons of God are in heaven talking to God and again Satan is with them. Remember, he is not one of them. He is with them.
The conversation starts again. God really gives it to him. "Have you seen Job? There is not a more rightious person. He does everything with care, trying hard never to upset my by insults. You have taken away all he has. Still he has not cursed Me. " God is making the point to him. 'I Know More Than You Do. Job Will Not Curse Me. I Know This. And you were proven wrong.' Satan responds. That is because he is healthy. Take away his health and will curse you. In other words Satan is saying that he Satan knows more than God, Satan is saying he right about Job and God is wrong.
God calls Satan a second time on his words. He essentially says: "Okay prove your words. Take away his health but do not kill him." Satan does. Job just like God said He would do, did not curse God.
We learned a lot from this. Satan has limits put upon him by God, which he wll not cross. The concept of oneness that Jesus brought up is demonstrated here. Jobs wife was not killed. All of his children were. His wife was not. The concept of infused knowledge by Seeing God is demonstrated here, like in Pauls case, where seeing he learned much. When Job saw he recanted, his accusation to God, as he knew then what happened in heaven, with Satan being put in his place by God, once again. Job then knew, that the greater good was why he was allowed to suffer. It was to tell everyone later, of the limits put on Satan, life after deaths as experienced by Jobs having everything doubled on earth, except his children. He had the same amount on earth as he had before. That suggests to us, that his children were actually doubled like everything else, for what God put him through, for the rest of us, as the children in heaven or whereever, and the children now on earth, were twice as many as before.
Job was only wrong about pain and suffering cannot be for a good purpose. Jesus's was. We also learned about pain and suffering for God is rewarded much by God. Jesus was rewarded. Everything Job had was doubled, and now the God he only followed in faith, He now had seen Him in person.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Even after Job loses his wealth, his status, his children, and his health he remains faithful to God and without a blemish on his character until his friends arrive and begin pressing him to confess his sin. Job can't take his faithfullness being questioned. At first he maintains he is righteous and that no one can bring an accusation against him, but as the conversation carries on Job becomes frustrated and slips into self-righteousness:How do you answer what God said to Job. Job 40:8 -----"Will you condemn me that you may be righteous?"
Even after Job loses his wealth, his status, his children, and his health he remains faithful to God and without a blemish on his character until his friends arrive and begin pressing him to confess his sin. Job can't take his faithfullness being questioned. At first he maintains he is righteous and that no one can bring an accusation against him, but as the conversation carries on Job becomes frustrated and slips into self-righteousness:
Essentially protesting his integrity and uprightness to God Himself, as if perhaps God had forgotten what an excellent servant he was. While Job's friends believe he must have committed a great sin for these things to happen to him, Job begins to wonder if God has forgotten that he is a good and faithful servant.
This is why God says what He does in Job 40:8; in defending his own rightness, Job starts to call God's into question.
What I have given is the big picture. What you say is important to me. The conversation just got deep. I will check now to see if I made any errors, as when I wrote to you, my information is from a set of understandings that is years old, and errors do come in some of the time.
However, before I start examining each one of my points, I am going to look at your original statement a little deeper now.
It was:
Why is it that Job's friends get condemned and Job gets a free pass? The three friends only had to offer up seven bulls and seven rams to be accepted by God, while Job had to offer up everything he had.
Hmm? Two of Job's friends, God said did not speak rightly about God. Those two friends did the bulk of the talking.
One of Job's friends waited and waited and waited. Finally he told Job that he was looking wrongly about God, and that he should consider both the good and the bad to come from God. That is, if I recall that correctly.
For me, when God said Job's two friends did not speak rightly about Him, I have always determined not to use anything of what they said, as actually being true. I did that, because God said they were in error.
It seems to me, the seven bulls and seven rams were only for the two friends of God, to be forgiven for not speaking rightly about God. It seems to me, the third friend had no sacrifice demanded of him, thus implying he was not at fault.
Being forgiven, for speaking wrongly about God, is not being accepted by God. Rather it is a mercy for Job.
It is a mercy as Job seems to like these two guys. God therefore is going to let him keep those two friends of his. The seven bulls and the seven rams, allows God to allow them to be forgiven, thus Job, who is about to be rewareded soon, is not going to have more suffering before he is given his reward by God.
Also. Job was already accepted by God, before God told us and the whole world through Job, some really nice things. He talked of Job to Satan. He talked of him twice. He used Job. God used Job. God used Jesus. Either of those two could have refused God. Job did not know he was being used. God knew him so well, that he knew how he would respond, [also telling us some really cool things about God and us, in how well He actually knows us], and thus He used Job to make a point with Satan.
Job offered up nothing. He was used. He was rewarded. He just did what Job does. Job did himself. He offered nothing up to God here, for this occasion, for this set of incidents to put Satan in his place, once again. He was just being himself.
I will now take a longer look at your original observations, into my possible inaccuracies.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Mary greetings,
In Job 42:7 God is speaking to Eliphaz and his two friends, and that makes three. God never calls Job righteous, but rather he likens him to a good Pharisee, much like Paul was before he met Christ. In Job 41:4 God asks Job if he is going to make a covenant with Satan and take him for a servant forever.
Job says he is unforgiven in Job 7:21. In Job 9:2 he says he doesn't know how to be just before God. In the New Testament we find that forgiveness and being made righteous are necessary for salvation. In Job 9:23 Job calls God unrighteous by making the statement that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent. In Job 40:8 God chastises Job for the previous statement by saying, "--Will you condemn me that you may be righteous?" The spirit in Job 4:17 says the same thing as God said here in Job 40:8. The spirit said, "Shall mortal man be more just than God?" In Job 35:2 Elihu asks Job if it is just for Job to declare himself more righteous than God.
It is as if we are reading two different books.
May God bless you,
Hi,Mary I believe that you are mistaking Elihu as a friend of Job's. He was not Job's friend, but rather his mediator between Job and God. The three friends were Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar.
God did not condemn the three friends for what they said, but rather what they didn't say. They did not know how to tell Job to be just before God. It would be the same thing if you met someone who did not know God, and you failed to witness to them. If you were unsaved you wouldn't be able to tell them, and that was the condition of the three friends, but shame on them for not knowing.
Mary I believe that you are mistaking Elihu as a friend of Job's. He was not Job's friend, but rather his mediator between Job and God. The three friends were Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar.
God did not condemn the three friends for what they said, but rather what they didn't say. They did not know how to tell Job to be just before God. It would be the same thing if you met someone who did not know God, and you failed to witness to them. If you were unsaved you wouldn't be able to tell them, and that was the condition of the three friends, but shame on them for not knowing.
Even after Job loses his wealth, his status, his children, and his health he remains faithful to God and without a blemish on his character until his friends arrive and begin pressing him to confess his sin. Job can't take his faithfullness being questioned. At first he maintains he is righteous and that no one can bring an accusation against him, but as the conversation carries on Job becomes frustrated and slips into self-righteousness:
Job 23:3-7 (ESV)
Oh, that I knew where I might find him,
that I might come even to his seat!
I would lay my case before him
and fill my mouth with arguments.
I would know what he would answer me
and understand what he would say to me.
Would he contend with me in the greatness of his power?
No; he would pay attention to me.
There an upright man could argue with him,
and I would be acquitted forever by my judge.
In short, Job states that he wishes to lay his case before God and make God explain to his friends that he is innocent of wickedness and wrongdoing. In his final statement Job even goes so far as to say:
Job 31:5-6 (ESV)
“If I have walked with falsehood
and my foot has hastened to deceit;
(Let me be weighed in a just balance,
and let God know my integrity!)"
Essentially protesting his integrity and uprightness to God Himself, as if perhaps God had forgotten what an excellent servant he was. While Job's friends believe he must have committed a great sin for these things to happen to him, Job begins to wonder if God has forgotten that he is a good and faithful servant.
This is why God says what He does in Job 40:8; in defending his own rightness, Job starts to call God's into question.
Hi,Mary greetings,
In Job 42:7 God is speaking to Eliphaz and his two friends, and that makes three. God never calls Job righteous, but rather he likens him to a good Pharisee, much like Paul was before he met Christ. In Job 41:4 God asks Job if he is going to make a covenant with Satan and take him for a servant forever.
Job says he is unforgiven in Job 7:21. In Job 9:2 he says he doesn't know how to be just before God. In the New Testament we find that forgiveness and being made righteous are necessary for salvation. In Job 9:23 Job calls God unrighteous by making the statement that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent. In Job 40:8 God chastises Job for the previous statement by saying, "--Will you condemn me that you may be righteous?" The spirit in Job 4:17 says the same thing as God said here in Job 40:8. The spirit said, "Shall mortal man be more just than God?" In Job 35:2 Elihu asks Job if it is just for Job to declare himself more righteous than God.
It is as if we are reading two different books.
May God bless you,
Here is a partial reply. You have made a total of 11 to thirteen points.
Point 2.) God never calls Job Rightious.
Reply: 2.1 Job 1:1 Blameless and upright feared God and shunned evil
2.2 Job 1:8 God says of him, blameless and upright, fears God and shuns evil
2.3 Job 1:20 Job fell to the ground and worshipped
2.3 Job 1:21 Blessed be the name of the Lord
2.4 Job 1:22 Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong
2.5 Job 2:3 God says: blameless and upright...
2.6 Job 2:10 Job did not sin with his lips
Now whether you are off topic and are saying Rightious is not the correct word choice for my point, my point is well made in those references that Job is the best there was on earth, at the time God put Satan in his place.
I called being the best there is from all of those things as rightious. Is your objection with the word choice, or the point?
Point 3.) Leviathan is Satan.
Really? Has that ever been proven? I thought Leviathan was just an unknown.
Point 9.) The Sprit spoke.
Reply:
9.1 Job 42:5 Now that my eyes have seen you.
Job saw God. He recanted once he saw God.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Hi again,
Where did Elihu come from and who is he to Job. In 3:11 or so the three friends are mentioned. Then all of a sudden Elihu starts to speak. It has been years, so I did make the mistake of figuring he was the only friend who was correct about God.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
There is perhaps a bigger picture here. What God testifies about Job in the very beginning of the book of Job never ever changes. God testifies that Job is blameless, and He repeats it at least one more time. Why did God call Job blameless?
Thank you kindly.
Actually it does change. Job failed the second test.
Hi,
Great. Can I ask you to apologize to me, for my headache? I suppose not, as I thought I knew Job well enough, but I did not. I do see how you might guess that Leviathan is Satan, or at least something to do with Satan.
Before I come off like a complete idiot here. I was doing something else years ago with this, and I never knew there were four men, primarily because of the difficulties in the way the story is presented.
The work I was doing in not on your topic. However, can you prove Leviathan was Satan? That would be nice if you could.
Also, you said The Spirit spoke to Job and it was not clear at all it was The Spirit to me. It seemed like God spoke to him out of the clouds. And that was important to me, as the way Job responded to God, soon made no sense to me. It was only when I read that he actually saw God, that many things made sense, and maybe just being in the presence of God, also gives information to the recipient. So, when Job said some thing in 40:4, it was I am vile.
LOVE, (although I think I am on the receiving end of LOVE here.)
...Mary., .... .
Did Job sin? Did Satan triumph?
Thank you kindly.