Mormon Mafia forever!

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

1) John 4:24: God is Spirit. In Luke 24:39, Jesus defines a spirit: "For a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (emphasis added)

2) Jeremiah 23:24: God is omnipresent (exists everywhere): "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? Saith the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth?" (emphasis added; cf. 2 Ch. 6;18).

3) 1 Timothy 1:17: God is an invisible spirit: "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be the honor and glory for ever and ever." Colossians 1:15: "Who [Jesus] is the image of the invisible [Gk. aoratou] God. . . . " (emphasis added; cf. John 1:18).

4) 1 Timothy 6:16: No one has ever or can see God the Father: "Who only hath immortality dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can [dunatai] see. . . . "

5) The LORD God refutes this LDS false teaching: "for I am God, and not man. . . . " (Hos. 11:9; emphasis added)

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

The LDS Church teaches polytheism:

I will preach on the plurality of Gods . . . I have always and in all congregations when I preached on the subject of Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. . . . Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

1) Isaiah 43:10: "before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Isaiah 44:6: "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel . . . I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no God."

Isaiah 44:8: "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God ; I know of not one."

Isaiah 45:5: "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. . . . " (cf. Deut. 4:35; Jer. 10:10; esp. Mark 12:29).

2) The fundamental difference that excludes Mormonism from Christianity is ontological monotheism: there exists one God by nature (Gal. 4:8) hence all other things called God are false gods or idols. False gods do not exist, only the true God does exist, in whom salvation is given.

jseek21 · Feb 23, 2003

Today at 11:50 AM Blackhawk said this in Post #16 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=671301#post671301)

I am only saying that whether Mormonism is a "Cult" or not is not the important thing here. The important thing is that itis not Christian and that Jesus is the only way to pradise by walking down the narrow road.  that mormonism is heresy and that it will lead one to hell.  So whether one wants to call it a religion or a cult I do not care as long as one does not get sucked into the lies it promotes.

exactly.

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

Josh, get off your computer!!!

Hey, I just read a joke:

How many calvinist does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None! God already predistined it!

The Thadman · Feb 23, 2003

Hey Capt. Moroni!

Did you know that "Moroni" in Aramaic (meem - reesh - noon - yoodh) means "MY BEING MADE LORD"? Some other creepy translations of the Books of Mormon concerning their titles exist too, and none of them are flattering (for example, "Alma" (olap - lomadh - meem - olap) means "ANGER" and "Jarom" (gomal - reesh - meem) means "TO BE STRIPPED ENTIRELY OF FLESH").

Also, how many people in the LDS church have spiritual gifts? Do you speak in tongues, interpret, or prophesy, yourself?

Just wondering!

Shlomo!
(Peace!)

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

I liker you avatar, for some reason.

Lynn · Feb 23, 2003

Today at 01:17 PM Job_38 said this in Post #25 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=671433#post671433)

How many calvinist does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None! God already predistined it!

How many Catholics does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

None, we only use candles!

lynn

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

Yesterday at 06:36 PM Captain Moroni said this in Post #10

We recieve it when we are 8 after baptism... we do indeed have the gift.

God is unchanging, and our church is set just as his was in Christs Ministry

 

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 Progressive-has not always been a God. (Articles of Faith by J. Talmage p. 430; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by Joseph F. Smith, p. 347-348)

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

Good one Lynn

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

Problems with the Aaronic Priesthood and Mormonism

"Have Aaron your brother brought to you from among the Israelites, along with his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, so they may serve me as priests." (Exodus 28:1; 42-43)

 The qualifications are only to Aaron and his sons.

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

"The Lord said to Aaron, "You, your sons and your father's family are to bear the responsibility for offenses against the sanctuary, and you and your sons alone are to bear the responsibility for offenses against the priesthood. Bring your fellow Levites from your ancestral tribe to join you and assist you when you and your sons minister before the tent of the Testimony. They are to be responsible to you and assist you and are to perform all the duties of the sanctuary or the altar, or both they and you will dies. They are to join you and be responsible for the care of Tent of Meeting-all the work at the Tent-and no one else may come near where you are. You are responsible for the care of the sanctuary and the alter, so that wrath will not fall on the Israelites again. I myself have selected your fellow Levites from among the Israelites as a gift to you, dedicated to the Lord to do the work at the Tent of Meeting. But only you and your sons may serve as priests in connection with everything at the altar and inside the curtain. I am giving you the service of the priesthood as a gift. Anyone else who comes near the sanctuary must be put to death." (Numbers 18:1-7)

Job_38 · Feb 23, 2003

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? Mormonism uses this text in I Corinthians 15 to argue the need for baptizing the dead, as they do by proxy in LDS Temples. Was the Apostle Paul telling the Christians of Corinth to do this? Is this evidence that Christians were engaged in baptisms for the dead? A closer look reveals that he was using as an example a third party who had a practice that expressed faith in the after life. Paul is telling the Corinthian Christians to have faith in the resurrection of the human body. "Else what shall they dowhy are they then baptized for the dead?" Notice that Paul does not associate himself, or the Christians he is addressing with the practice of baptism for the dead.

^^^^Baptism for the dead^^^^^^

Captain Moroni · Feb 23, 2003

Also, how many people in the LDS church have spiritual gifts? Do you speak in tongues, interpret, or prophesy, yourself?

Actually we do, we believe that they can be gifts of the holy ghost... now of course, that does not mean its guarenteed, but it is a blessing the holy ghost can bring into our lives... I believe it was in the articles of Faith if im not mistaken... yeah...

"We believe in the gift of tounges, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tounges and so forth"

I ask this simple question... why would we bear Christs name in our own "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and be nonchristian or in fact the opposite as it was said. We believe quite strongly in the atonement and the redempetion of sins... we have the same foundations as any other church... and if living a good life and trying to follow the lord in what I believe whole heartedly, doing service for others, and full faith in Christ will drag me down to hell, I question if any of us will go to heaven. Its not the church that saves us, no, not even our church teaches that being "mormon" will guarentee salvation, its how we live our lives, thats the most important part.

Yeah, Job, that actually was something I questioned as well... I have to be honest, I don't have the exact answers, i kinda fell asleep during seminary when my teacher was talking on that... 

But from what I understand, it has been passed down and my own priesthood can be traced back to aaron, and I believe it was we were adopted into his kingdom... I wanna look that up and get back to you, thats my own fault for not paying attention in class...

But, with the baptisms for the dead... the scripture in Corinthians, it could kinda be open to interpretation, but actually baptisms for the dead, and the work for the dead, was later revealed in modern times... after the church was restored, the work, one of hte last revelations found in the Doctrine and Covenants, section... 137 I believe... take it as you want, we believe in modern revelation by god, and that he has organized the work as such to this day.

There also goes to the fact that due to translations of the bible, a lot of plain and precious truths could have been lost... its passed through a lot hands over the years, and was done by the interpretation of the monk who had it at that time.

Job_38 · Feb 24, 2003

Ok, let me ask this: The book of Mormon is the fullness of the gospel right? To quote Joseph Smith excactly:

"...the fullness of the everlasting gospel."

If this is true, then that means everything it takes to get to the Celestial level of glory must be in there.

Point out where it speaks of Baptism the dead.

And explain this for me:

"There are some serious sins which the cleansing blood of Christ does not operatemen must then have their own blood shed to atone for their sins."
Bruce R. McConkie
Mormon Doctrine, p92

This now constitutes salvation by works, not by grace. This is in contradiction to Ephesians 2:8

Captain Moroni · Feb 25, 2003

Oh, btw, backtrack, I did a bit of reading, concerning the heredity of the aaronic priestood is true, but from what I got, the nessecity was fufilled with the completion of the Law of Moses... afterwards was available to any man worthy of it (To my knowledge Christs apostles had it... did they not... Im not totally 100% sure)

But yes, in time, it will be given back to Aaron and his decendants, they do hold the keys... or the rights to it.

About the baptisms for the dead. Actually... you need to be baptized to be part of the celestial kingdom yes, but the work for the dead was not organized until after the building of the lords temple later. The importance of getting baptized is spoken of, but the procedures and the possibility of doing the work of the dead, no is not given. There is evidence of baptisms for the dead in the bible (1 Corinthians) and in later revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants.

So, no, I guess you could say maybe it isnt the fulness of the gospel. The bringing forth of the Book of Mormon did bring forth the fulness of the gospel though yes. No, there are no direct scriptures relating to the procedure of the baptism of the dead in the book mormon, but of baptism and the importance of it for celestial glory, its there.

Concerning the grace. What if we do something to fall from that grace? There are some sins that would have us fall. To my knowledge, things like denying Christ or something, when we know and love of his existance. In that case, to my understanding, theres a bit more to the repentance process to be redeemed. Yes, we can be saved by Gods grace, but if we go and like reject god and christ after having a full knowledge of it? Thats a bit different. Its a rare case though.

Job_38 · Feb 25, 2003

Ok, but if the BoM is supposed to be the everlasting of the gospel and the fullness of it, why does it not include most of the Mormon doctrine?

Job_38 · Feb 25, 2003

What if we do something to fall from that grace?

John 10:1-30

Jesus is the good shepherd, He will never let His sheep be stolen.

Captain Moroni · Feb 27, 2003

Stolen no, but we are free to make our own choices arent we? We condemn ourselves, and choose to concemn ourselves. If we deny christ and do not accept him at all (which is basically staring into the sun and saying it doesnt exist), it wouldent make sense to be saved...

sadly, some people will do that... even when at the last days. He atoned for our sins, but we choose to accept his grace... in a sense, ya know?

And... its quite possible not everything is in words in the Book of Mormon. WE believe it to be the keystone of our religion (in a roman arch, it was the very top piece of stone that held everything else together). So, like... maybe IT itself may not be the fulness of the gospel, but with it it provides the fulness of the gospel... like, its that final piece. And, I may very well be wrong that it doesnt have everything, I would have to look through it again... I dont know it top to bottom yet, its still a bit to big to memorize

dnich163 · Feb 28, 2003

22nd February 2003 at 05:39 PM Captain Moroni said this in Post #3

We have a modern day prophet, 12 apostles,  believe in baptism by immersion, also have the priesthood, ordained by the laying on of hands, as well as the gift of the holy ghost. We are organized by God 

Hi there skipper,

I think that this idea of a modern day prophet is part of the problem. The Christian church recognizes Jesus as the last of the Prophets because he was and is the fullfilment of the scriptures.

This is part of the area of concern with Islam in that Mohammet is considered by them to be a Prophet. This doesn't square with Christology.

David

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