Republican Alternative to ACA

Sketcher said:

$400+ hammers, $600+ toilet seats . . . if the government has spent like that, why not drive up the price of health care even more.

"In theory" being the operative phrase.

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Except we have many examples of single payer systems and they all cost less.

Do you think the American government is the most incompetent as far as governments go?

400$ hammers are actually most common in the military, which, is by far and away the way Republicans like to waste money.

Free market proposals that would likely agree with Ron Paul's approach:

1. Eliminate all licensing requirements for medical schools, hospitals, pharmacies, and medical doctors and other health care personnel.
2. Eliminate all government restrictions on the production and sale of pharmaceutical products and medical devices.
3. Deregulate the health insurance industry.
4. Eliminate all [government] subsidies to the sick or unhealthy.

Source: https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/hans-hermann-hoppe/a-four-step-health-care-solution/

Mediaeval said:

Free market proposals that would likely agree with Ron Paul's approach:

1. Eliminate all licensing requirements for medical schools, hospitals, pharmacies, and medical doctors and other health care personnel.
2. Eliminate all government restrictions on the production and sale of pharmaceutical products and medical devices.
3. Deregulate the health insurance industry.
4. Eliminate all [government] subsidies to the sick or unhealthy.

Source: https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/hans-hermann-hoppe/a-four-step-health-care-solution/

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The average voter is 45 years old (an age where serious health problems start to come up).

I doubt health care quality, or the actual health of individuals is going to increase in quality by removing licensing requirements. That's a bit like trying to lower the price of food by not inspecting for bacteria...

And given what we know about the unregulated herbal supplement market fraud:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html

What do you think the drug market is going to look like with no one bothering to ensure that drug A is really drug A?

variant said:

Except we have many examples of single payer systems and they all cost less.

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Much, much less. Healthcare in Western Europe costs less than half as much per person! Can you guess how much longer we live than them in return? Negative one and a half years. That's how much longer.

Yes, socialized healthcare works in practice, but does it work in theory?

pakicetus said:

Much, much less. Healthcare in the average Western European country costs less than half as much per person! Can you guess how much longer we live than them in return? Negative one and a half years. That's how much longer.

Yes, socialized healthcare works in practice, but does it work in theory?

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Well it works in theory and in practice, what we haven't seen is the grand superiority of our much more expensive system.

We also haven't seen the superiority of the various mixes that have been proposed and implemented by the American government.

We certianly don't have examples of caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) working as a health policy like our libertarian friend proposed.

Boondock_Saint said:

Election season is next year and they have no replacement that I have ever heard of.

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That's because the ACA was the republican plan until recently.

Mediaeval said:

Free market proposals that would likely agree with Ron Paul's approach:

1. Eliminate all licensing requirements for medical schools, hospitals, pharmacies, and medical doctors and other health care personnel.
2. Eliminate all government restrictions on the production and sale of pharmaceutical products and medical devices.
3. Deregulate the health insurance industry.
4. Eliminate all [government] subsidies to the sick or unhealthy.

Source: https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/hans-hermann-hoppe/a-four-step-health-care-solution/

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That's one way to thin the herd.

Mediaeval said:

Free market proposals that would likely agree with Ron Paul's approach:

1. Eliminate all licensing requirements for medical schools, hospitals, pharmacies, and medical doctors and other health care personnel.
2. Eliminate all government restrictions on the production and sale of pharmaceutical products and medical devices.
3. Deregulate the health insurance industry.
4. Eliminate all [government] subsidies to the sick or unhealthy.

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The doctor will see you now......

variant said:

What do you think the drug market is going to look like with no one bothering to ensure that drug A is really drug A?

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Probably not much different. Pharmacies and other stores would try to stock only those products that are likely to satisfy their customers. Bad products would be bad for repeat business. Private firms like Underwriters Laboratories would also find an increased number of clients as drug companies seek certification from sources other than government bureaucracy.

cow451, hilarious!

Mediaeval said:

Probably not much different. Pharmacies and other stores would try to stock only those products that are likely to satisfy their customers. Bad products would be bad for repeat business. Private firms like Underwriters Laboratories would also find an increased number of clients as drug companies seek certification from sources other than government bureaucracy.

cow451, hilarious!

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Given the number of stores that sell sugar pills as cures, as well as the number of people willing to take them, there is real cause for there to be government oversight.

Mediaeval said:

Probably not much different. Pharmacies and other stores would try to stock only those products that are likely to satisfy their customers. Bad products would be bad for repeat business. Private firms like Underwriters Laboratories would also find an increased number of clients as drug companies seek certification from sources other than government bureaucracy.

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Clients already test with laboratories for government certifications. The problem of course is that we implement a system like what you suggest we have massive fraud.

As the unregulated herbal cure industry shows us, they can't be trusted to show that their products work, and they can't even be trusted to have their products actually be what they say they are.

Worst of all, since the herbal cure market is so steeped in fraud, even companies that are doing good business are being hurt by the rampant frauds they compete with. The fraud is so rampant that the credibility of the business is harmed overall.

Mediaeval said:

Bad products would be bad for repeat business.

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You have so much faith in humanity! I'm 100% sure a lot of people can't tell the difference between bad products and good products -- you can get better for reasons other than medicine, after all, and there's the placebo effect too. I know a lot of people who genuinely believe "faith healing" works, and would probably buy Peter Popoff's "miracle spring water" if I told them about it. Plus half the population thinks homeopathy works!

pakicetus said:

You have so much faith in humanity! I'm 100% sure a lot of people can't tell the difference between bad products and good products -- you can get better for reasons other than medicine, after all, and there's the placebo effect too. I know a lot of people who genuinely believe "faith healing" works, and would probably buy Peter Popoff's "miracle spring water" if I told them about it. Plus half the population thinks homeopathy works!

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Does anyone really want to have to find out later that their chemotherapy wasn't really what they said it was?

I don't really care at that point that the company that helped kill me won't get my repeat business.

Sketcher said:

One party's "do nothing" is the other party's check and balance.

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Or their complicity in the very same crimes.

NightHawkeye said:

Single payer is likely to be a death knell for any party that proposes it.

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It is probably the best option, if only we could get government out of it, it would probably work.

Sketcher said:

McCain's plan was analyzed here: A Fork in the Road: Obama, McCain, and Health Care | Cato Institute

Ron Paul's plan was centered on stopping the government's role in increasing costs of health care, and expanding tax credits for medical expenses (Health Savings Accounts in particular). A few more details are here: Ron Paul and Health Care: Interesting View Point | Health Insurance News

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Ron is always making sense, guess thats why he'll never be president.

Sketcher said:

$400+ hammers, $600+ toilet seats . . . if the government has spent like that, why not drive up the price of health care even more.


"In theory" being the operative phrase.

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Why do you think every other industrialized nation pays about half of us for a single payer system if said system was so inefficient?

This isn't some theoretical, there is demonstrable proof across the world that our system is bloated, inefficient, wasteful, expensive, and has worst outcomes. How anyone can point to our system as being better than theirs is incomprehensible. Especially from the party of "fiscal responsibility."

mafwons said:

Ron is always making sense, guess thats why he'll never be president.

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I don't know if his healthcare ideas are any good, but he's clearly a nutcase.