Babylon
- Thread starter Blynn
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Blynn,
Do your history and study previous prophecies that have already come to pass. In that, you can see how prophecies in the future may unfold. Remember though, the adversary has MANY ways to trick, deceive, and HIDE the truth. This board alone should show how so many people have so many things to say about current events and history. READ for yourself and pray to the Father. If you ask, He will listen and guide you to the understanding that you seek.
The Truth is there...just open your eyes.
Do your history and study previous prophecies that have already come to pass. In that, you can see how prophecies in the future may unfold. Remember though, the adversary has MANY ways to trick, deceive, and HIDE the truth. This board alone should show how so many people have so many things to say about current events and history. READ for yourself and pray to the Father. If you ask, He will listen and guide you to the understanding that you seek.
The Truth is there...just open your eyes.
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Discussions of a spiritual nature are not "fights". There was no name calling, as that is rather immature and unproductive. And I, for one, would like to know what army General Mischief is in.
Silence leads to apostacy. I will not be silent. But I WILL wipe the dust from my feet.
Yahu'shua be with you.
Silence leads to apostacy. I will not be silent. But I WILL wipe the dust from my feet.
Yahu'shua be with you.
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- Feb 24, 2002
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Endtime Babylon was none other than 1st century apostate Jerusalem.
1 - It is continually called the "great city" (Revelation 14:8; 16:19; 17:18; 18:10,16,18,19) as is Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8)
2 - It is described as receiving God's wrath (Revelation 14:8,19; 16:19) as is Jerusalem (Matthew 22:7; 23:37,38; Mark 12:9; Luke 13:34,35; 19:27,41-44; 20:16; 21:20; 23:28-31; Acts 6:14; 7:51,52; Galatians 4:21-31; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16).
3 - It is said to be fornicating (Revelation 14:8; 17:2) as is Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8). In the OT when Babylon was about to be used by God to judge Jerusalem, Jerusalem is said to be fornicating also.
4 - It is said that outside the city blood flowed for 1600 furlongs (200 miles) (Revelation 14:20), this is the north-south length of the land of Judea. Also, Josphus speaks of rivers of blood where dead bodies were washing up because they were slaughtered by the Romans and remained unburied. He also relates of the blood flow actually putting out fires in houses.
5 - Great hail weighing one talent is said to fall upon men there (Revelation 16:21). Josephus tells of the Roman catapults being used to cast whitewashed boulders over the walls of Jerusalem and they each weighed one talent.
6 - It is described as the great harlot (Revelation 17:2), which is fitting for apostate Jerusalem being estranged from God. Again, in the OT, when Babylon was to judge Jerusalem, the prophet Ezekiel and Jeremiah call Jerusalem a harlot.
7 - It is described as being adorned in OT priestly apparel (Revelation 17:4, 5; 18:16) which is fitting for apostate Jerusalem having a form of godliness but being far from God. Even on the forehead is written "Mother of harlots . . ." just like "Holiness to the Lord" is written on
the foreheads of the OT priesthood (Exodus 28:36-38).
8 - It is clearly not literal Babylon, as it is called a "mystery" (Revelation 17:5).
9 - It is being held responsible for the "blood of the saints" and the "blood of the martyrs of Jesus (Revelation 17:6; 18:24) This could ONLY be referring to 1st century, apostate Jerusalem (Matthew 23:29-39; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, see references in #2 above also).
10 - It can be shown that the NT constantly contrasts two Jerusalems:
10a - Heavenly Jerusalem (Hebrews 11:16; 12:22) VS Earthly Jerusalem (Galatians 4:21-31).
10b - The city with foundations (Hebrews 11:10) VS the "no continuing" city (Hebrews 13:14)
10c - The city whose builder is God (Hebrews 11:10) VS the city whose builder is man (Galatians 4:21-31)
10d - The Jerusalem to come (Hebrews 13:14) VS the Jerusalem that "now is" (in Paul's day, Galatians 4:25)
10e - The Jerusalem which is above (Galatians 4:26) VS the Jerusalem that is below (Galatians 4:21-31)
10f - The Jerusalem that is free (Galatians 4:26) VS the Jerusalem that is in bondage (Galatians 4:25)
I believe I can carry this contrast on into Revelation and establish the following additional ones:
10g - The Holy City (Revelation 21:2; 22:19) VS the Wicked City (Revelation 17-18)
10h - The Bride (Revelation 21:9; 22:17) VS the Harlot (Revelation 17:15,16)
10i - New Jerusalem (Revelation 3:12; 21:2) VS Old Earthly Jerusalem
11 - It is said to make war with the Lamb (Revelation 17:14) as is Jerusalem (see references in #2 above) and the first-century Jews (Almost every chapter in the book of Acts!). When the Saul of Tarsus persecuted the Christians, Jesus said, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?" (Acts 9:4). Jesus took it personal. Thus when Christians are persecuted, the Lamb is being attacked Himself.
12 - The beast hates her, makes her desolate and naked, eats her flesh and burns her with fire (Revelation 17:16) which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem.
13 - The saints abiding in Babylon were told to escape (Revelation 18:4) as were the saints abiding in Jerusalem at the time of the Roman siege (Luke 21:20-22).
14 - It claims it is not a "widow" (Revelation 18:7), but if it is Jerusalem then it is fitting to be called a widow for she killed her own husband (Jesus).
15 - In its judgement it experiences death, mourning, famine and being burned with fire (Revelation 18:8) which is very descriptive of what happens in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
16 - Her judgment is an act of God's vengeance (Revelation 18:20) as is Jerusalem's (Luke 21:22; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8; Hebrews 10:28-31).
16a - As a note to #16 for you to consider: Did Jerusalem repent of the crimes of the murder of the Son of God and of the saints that He sent to them? No, instead we see the perfect fulfillment of what Jesus predicted in Matthew 23:34 in almost every chapter of the book of Acts.
17 - Jerusalem is fittingly called "spiritually . . . Sodom and Egypt" (Revelation 11:8) and in the same passage called "the great city" (see #1 above). Sodom was destroyed for fornication, Babylon in Revelation is destroyed for fornication, Jerusalem was destroyed for spiritual fornication. Egypt was destroyed for holding Israel in bondage, Babylon is destroyed for persecuting the saints and holding them in bondage, Jerusalem was destroyed for persecuting the saints and holding them in spiritual bondage.
18 - The "voice of the bridegroom" and of the "bride" was to be heard no more in her (Revelation 18:23) and these terms are associated with Jesus and the church (John 3:29). Since Jesus told His church to depart from Jerusalem, then the bride was removed and thus the voice of the bridegroom was also removed.
Based on the above facts, the conclusion is inescapable that the Babylon of Revelation is an apocalyptic description of Old Covenant, apostate Jerusalem and its destruction in 70 AD.
1 - It is continually called the "great city" (Revelation 14:8; 16:19; 17:18; 18:10,16,18,19) as is Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8)
2 - It is described as receiving God's wrath (Revelation 14:8,19; 16:19) as is Jerusalem (Matthew 22:7; 23:37,38; Mark 12:9; Luke 13:34,35; 19:27,41-44; 20:16; 21:20; 23:28-31; Acts 6:14; 7:51,52; Galatians 4:21-31; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16).
3 - It is said to be fornicating (Revelation 14:8; 17:2) as is Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8). In the OT when Babylon was about to be used by God to judge Jerusalem, Jerusalem is said to be fornicating also.
4 - It is said that outside the city blood flowed for 1600 furlongs (200 miles) (Revelation 14:20), this is the north-south length of the land of Judea. Also, Josphus speaks of rivers of blood where dead bodies were washing up because they were slaughtered by the Romans and remained unburied. He also relates of the blood flow actually putting out fires in houses.
5 - Great hail weighing one talent is said to fall upon men there (Revelation 16:21). Josephus tells of the Roman catapults being used to cast whitewashed boulders over the walls of Jerusalem and they each weighed one talent.
6 - It is described as the great harlot (Revelation 17:2), which is fitting for apostate Jerusalem being estranged from God. Again, in the OT, when Babylon was to judge Jerusalem, the prophet Ezekiel and Jeremiah call Jerusalem a harlot.
7 - It is described as being adorned in OT priestly apparel (Revelation 17:4, 5; 18:16) which is fitting for apostate Jerusalem having a form of godliness but being far from God. Even on the forehead is written "Mother of harlots . . ." just like "Holiness to the Lord" is written on
the foreheads of the OT priesthood (Exodus 28:36-38).
8 - It is clearly not literal Babylon, as it is called a "mystery" (Revelation 17:5).
9 - It is being held responsible for the "blood of the saints" and the "blood of the martyrs of Jesus (Revelation 17:6; 18:24) This could ONLY be referring to 1st century, apostate Jerusalem (Matthew 23:29-39; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, see references in #2 above also).
10 - It can be shown that the NT constantly contrasts two Jerusalems:
10a - Heavenly Jerusalem (Hebrews 11:16; 12:22) VS Earthly Jerusalem (Galatians 4:21-31).
10b - The city with foundations (Hebrews 11:10) VS the "no continuing" city (Hebrews 13:14)
10c - The city whose builder is God (Hebrews 11:10) VS the city whose builder is man (Galatians 4:21-31)
10d - The Jerusalem to come (Hebrews 13:14) VS the Jerusalem that "now is" (in Paul's day, Galatians 4:25)
10e - The Jerusalem which is above (Galatians 4:26) VS the Jerusalem that is below (Galatians 4:21-31)
10f - The Jerusalem that is free (Galatians 4:26) VS the Jerusalem that is in bondage (Galatians 4:25)
I believe I can carry this contrast on into Revelation and establish the following additional ones:
10g - The Holy City (Revelation 21:2; 22:19) VS the Wicked City (Revelation 17-18)
10h - The Bride (Revelation 21:9; 22:17) VS the Harlot (Revelation 17:15,16)
10i - New Jerusalem (Revelation 3:12; 21:2) VS Old Earthly Jerusalem
11 - It is said to make war with the Lamb (Revelation 17:14) as is Jerusalem (see references in #2 above) and the first-century Jews (Almost every chapter in the book of Acts!). When the Saul of Tarsus persecuted the Christians, Jesus said, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?" (Acts 9:4). Jesus took it personal. Thus when Christians are persecuted, the Lamb is being attacked Himself.
12 - The beast hates her, makes her desolate and naked, eats her flesh and burns her with fire (Revelation 17:16) which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem.
13 - The saints abiding in Babylon were told to escape (Revelation 18:4) as were the saints abiding in Jerusalem at the time of the Roman siege (Luke 21:20-22).
14 - It claims it is not a "widow" (Revelation 18:7), but if it is Jerusalem then it is fitting to be called a widow for she killed her own husband (Jesus).
15 - In its judgement it experiences death, mourning, famine and being burned with fire (Revelation 18:8) which is very descriptive of what happens in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
16 - Her judgment is an act of God's vengeance (Revelation 18:20) as is Jerusalem's (Luke 21:22; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8; Hebrews 10:28-31).
16a - As a note to #16 for you to consider: Did Jerusalem repent of the crimes of the murder of the Son of God and of the saints that He sent to them? No, instead we see the perfect fulfillment of what Jesus predicted in Matthew 23:34 in almost every chapter of the book of Acts.
17 - Jerusalem is fittingly called "spiritually . . . Sodom and Egypt" (Revelation 11:8) and in the same passage called "the great city" (see #1 above). Sodom was destroyed for fornication, Babylon in Revelation is destroyed for fornication, Jerusalem was destroyed for spiritual fornication. Egypt was destroyed for holding Israel in bondage, Babylon is destroyed for persecuting the saints and holding them in bondage, Jerusalem was destroyed for persecuting the saints and holding them in spiritual bondage.
18 - The "voice of the bridegroom" and of the "bride" was to be heard no more in her (Revelation 18:23) and these terms are associated with Jesus and the church (John 3:29). Since Jesus told His church to depart from Jerusalem, then the bride was removed and thus the voice of the bridegroom was also removed.
Based on the above facts, the conclusion is inescapable that the Babylon of Revelation is an apocalyptic description of Old Covenant, apostate Jerusalem and its destruction in 70 AD.
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supermagdalena
The Shrubs and the Flan.
I was just saying, every thread that gets good seems to be shut down due to name calling, etc. None of that, please, I like a good debate 
Don't stay silent. Staying silent is bad. Talking is good
A lot of interesting points on this thread. I've never heard so many views! I just don't like it when we start pointing fingers at our fellow believers. Unless, of course, you don't count Roman Catholics as believers, which I do. Rome I still doubt. It's supposed to be powerful, remember? Rome's not all that powerful right now.
Don't stay silent. Staying silent is bad. Talking is good
A lot of interesting points on this thread. I've never heard so many views! I just don't like it when we start pointing fingers at our fellow believers. Unless, of course, you don't count Roman Catholics as believers, which I do. Rome I still doubt. It's supposed to be powerful, remember? Rome's not all that powerful right now.
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