Rape in the bible

Lukaris

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You don't think the bible says that god was warning them of what he was going to do them? When the bible says he was going to cause it? Since he was doing it, does it not reflect his character?

God was warning about consequences of human action; He is not arbitrary. Innocent people are victims of the misdeeds of evildoers. Since Jesus Christ is God, the Son of God the Father & says those who have seen Him have seen the Father (John 14:9). He said that his purpose was to save men's lives not destroy (Luke 9:52-56) & that individuals who died innocently by the sword or of natural disaster were victims (plain & simple) & that those of us who speculate otherwise need to consider the need for repentance before death might happen to us (Luke 13:1-5).

The Old Testament sainted prophets were speaking in the fear of the Lord which is still what we are commanded (Luke 12:4-5).They did not have the New Testament full understanding since God had not yet become one of us & spoken to us person to person. They went through a lot of anguish receiving divine revelation from God, the Holy Spirit seeing mostly tragedy & trying to sort it all out.

For 2000 years since the Lord summed up the law & prophets in the golden rule (Matthew 7:1-12, Luke 6:31-49) & the 2 great commands (Matthew 22:36-40, Luke 10: 25-37, Mark 12:38-44 etc.). Still the Lord affirms that the Old Testament is the word of God:


Luke 24:44-45 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Scriptures Opened

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+24:44-45&version=NKJV


Again, going back to the examples of divine wrath vs. consequences of human sinning human cruelty. As was mentioned re Jeremiah 19:9:

9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and everyone shall eat the flesh of his friend in the siege and in the desperation with which their enemies and those who seek their lives shall drive them to despair.”’

We have to understand what preceded this:

Jeremiah 19:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 “Because they have forsaken Me and made this an alien place, because they have burned incense in it to other gods whom neither they, their fathers, nor the kings of Judah have known, and have filled this place with the blood of the innocents 5 (they have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into My mind),

Again, the prophet warned (like a tsunami was approaching & to go to higher ground or die):

Jeremiah 19:14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

14 Then Jeremiah came from Tophet, where the Lord had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the Lord’s house and said to all the people, 15 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘Behold, I will bring on this city and on all her towns all the doom that I have pronounced against it, because they have stiffened their necks that they might not hear My words.’”

Now, again with Isaiah 13, the prophet is not only warning Judah but is also warning Babylon of consequences of their future iniquities over a century ahead. As I pointed out earlier, the proclamation against Babylon extends into Isaiah 14:1-11; the Lord mentions His mercy towards those of Judah & even Babylon who did not choose evil (Isaiah 14:1-2). So clearly individuals can choose to do good or evil in all sorts of circumstances ( the fear of the Lord tells me to examine myself in things like this). The collective role of Satan is revealed in Isaiah 14:12-21. Groups like the Medes, Babylonians etc. were collectively inclined to evil and had their sites already on many nations including Judah yet all were actually warned generations previous.

If you underestimate human free will and God's will re forbearance, judgment, etc. then why did God send the prophet Jonah to the Nineveh ( early 8th c. BC)unless He saw their propensity to repent? Regrettably, Nineveh lapsed back into deep sin about 150 years later ( late 7th c. BC) & was judged as proclaimed by the prophet Nahum.
 
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Lukaris

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So when the scriptures say god actually made those things happen, it isn't actually true but rather natural consequences?

Or is that because he warned them he was just in making it happen?


I believe the Bible clearly indicates that God does not micromanage us but sustains us. Our basic existence in our fallen state and its consequences are of natural law; conduct & outcomes outlined in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8:

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8New King James Version (NKJV)

Everything Has Its Time

3 To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:
2
A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3
A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4
A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5
A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6
A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7
A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8
A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.


It is within this framework that the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5) are to be observed. When these are violated natural law (God's law) is violated. God instructed Moses to tell the people re this:

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”



God will hold each of us into account.


Ecclesiastes 3:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

Injustice Seems to Prevail

16 Moreover I saw under the sun:
In the place of judgment,
Wickedness was there;
And in the place of righteousness,
Iniquity was there.

17 I said in my heart,
“God shall judge the righteous and the wicked,
For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”



I understand the more brutal & dire warnings from God as pertaining to a situation in a society is so evil it will bring evil upon itself (a righteous minority excepted). Plenty of innocents are also victims in these upheavals. Still these warnings are given in advance in the hope that as many sinners as possible will repent. The miracle of Nineveh that the reluctant Jonah witnessed was (regrettably) exceptional. Unfortunately, Nineveh reverted back to its evil ways & its doom was proclaimed by the prophet Nahum.

Potential tyrants are warned to refrain from oppressing multitudes of people:


Habakkuk 2:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

4
“Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.

Woe to the Wicked
5
“Indeed, because he transgresses by wine,
He is a proud man,
And he does not stay at home.
Because he enlarges his desire as hell,[a]
And he is like death, and cannot be satisfied,
He gathers to himself all nations
And heaps up for himself all peoples.
 
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DrinkFanta74

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Here's a better picture

Isaiah 13

1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.


Why does the Bible say houses will be plundered and wives ravished? | CARM.org
 
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drich0150

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In Isaiah 13 god judges Babylon and one of his judgements is particularly scary. v16



If you read the whole chapter it seems apparent than these things are a result of his judgements because he uses statements like "I command, I will, I declare, my wrath" etc etc
Actually if you look at the passage God simply does not restrict the evilness in their enemies hearts!
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 13 - Easy-to-Read Version

Got to remember these are evil people who have hurt others for a very very long time. You do know Babylon's foot print fits that of Radical Islam right? Meaning you can Replace the name of babylon with ISIS or the Taliban or some other group who hates your culture and shows no mercy to you or yours, and the ancient term can be accurately represented by a modern name or faction.

So then now you have a modern understanding of babylon.. would you invite a hard core full on ISIS soldiers to live with you, would you put them in a room across from your children while they slept??

would you have stood or put you and your wife between the US soldiers and bagdadi to try and work out a peaceful solution? remember this guy went into that tunel with 3 of his own kids to use them as shields. before he himself blew everyone up!

if a man or people do not warrant you putting your life or your families life on the line to stop justice from happening... then why would God then be required to regulate said justice in any way?

Remember children are innocent only because this society says they are. however in the middle east they are programmed from the moment they can communicate to love their own and hate whom ever their society says hate!

I don't understand how Christians get past this.
Because the idea of morality does not govern God. IE God is not subject to rules of right and wrong. Right and wrong have been identified as such because that is what God has decided. Remember God is all mighty and all powerful. if God as subject to man's morality or ideas of right and wrong, then God by defination would not be God./A supreme being.

Might has always and will always = right. show me one place ever when and where this is not true.
God is supreme in might.

Yes they were sinners,
= Yes the crashed planes into buildings, yes they killed and displaced 100's of thousand of christians from their homes. yes the cut the heads of of by standers because they where from the west. yes they raped and murdered anyone not of their liking, and planned to do so world wide. The bible says sinner, but this is what sinner means. not people who work on sunday or gossip about their neighbors.

yes they refused to repent,
=Yes they refuse to back down, Yes they have involved this country and the west in general in a 20+ year active war (meaning second generation of fighters now taking over/those kids whom you thought were innocent) yes they have taken this war to our streets Ie shooting in paris Charlie hebdo the truck drive who went wild running people down in a market ect ect ect ct....
yes they disobeyed and angered god
They angered God for being a human blight on his people. They have become a human Zombie infestation. can't work with them can not reason with them they only have one purpose and that is to make everyone a zombie or to kill anyone who resists. So what other option is there?

but does that make it morally justifiable to rape them and beat their babies heads against rocks?
Nope..
Again God did not command this read the passage. He just did not restrict their enemies in any way.
If you sinned and you refused, absolutely refused to repent and god judged you by having me attack you and rape you, if he "stirred" me up like he did the Medes...
what a dishonest comparison. what if I sinned against you? would it be on the same measure as ISIS 'sinning' against the whole world? or are you comparing my lying to you about your girl friend not looking fat in her dress as being on par with the sins so egregious that it inflames men to rain down as much hell fire as they can on their enemies? How are those two examples of sin are alike?

would it then be ok for me to rape you? Would him having me rape you be ok for him to do?
again you are putting God in this mix when clearly contextually he literally steps back and lets the oppressed men of babylon do what they will. Good bad is not a motivation of anything here.
 
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Hawkins

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Ancient Jews wrote in a sense of God's absolute sovereignty. That's why you would read how Pharaoh hardened his own heart in one place and God hardened his heart in another. You would also read how God caused David's census in place, but Satan caused it in another. It is a matter of perspective. "God did it" is the way how the Jews wrote it from the perspective of God's absolute sovereignty.

That's said. A similar concept applies here. Each place is protected by a guardian angel assigned by God. If that angel is removed by God the place will be raided by its neighbor nations, with the human cruelty of killing and raping the innocent.

From another perspective, if a nation sinned to a level God cannot bear with, God may choose to cover up His own face. He chooses to stay away from His knowledge about this nation. Satan on the other hand, would take that chance to rage wars between nations for all kinds of cruelty to occur. God actually warned Israel about this too. When God stays away, the protection is down for Satan to take that chance to do his evil. That's what it is. However from the Jewish writing method of absolute sovereignty, it can be taken as "God did it".
 
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