If "Heaven And Earth" is not covenantal in nature, how do you explain?

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟14,087.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev. 22:2


Why do the nations still need healing?

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Rev. 22:14-15


If Old Heaven and Old Earth was literally and physically destroyed in a global conflageration while a New Heaven and New Earth were reconstructed? What are these individuals still loafing and prowling about, unless New Jerusalem is the church itself on this current earth, where Christ came down to reign in our hearts? Weren't these individuals supposed to be completely destroyed and annihilated never to be seen ever again according to premillennialism and dispensationalism?

See 2 Cor. 6:16 below:


and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Cor. 6:16


Likewise, what about Isaiah 65:17-22:

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:
for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and joy in my people:
and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her,
nor the voice of crying.
There shall be no more thence an infant of days,
nor an old man that hath not filled his days:
for the child shall die an hundred years old;
but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them;
and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit;
they shall not plant, and another eat:
for as the days of a tree are the days of my people,
and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.


If the old order of Old Heaven and Old Earth has been completely dissolved, why in the New Heaven and New Earth:

Why are babies still being born, weren't we supposed to be like the angels not given to marriage?

Why do people still die, wasn't death supposed to be destroyed?

Why do people still build homes, plant vineyards, and still labour, didn't God build a city not made with human hands and prepared a place for all of us amongst His many mansions?
 
Last edited:

mxyzpt1k

Newbie
Jun 7, 2014
233
1
✟354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why do the nations still need healing?
......................
Rev. 22:14-15


If Old Heaven and Old Earth was literally and physically destroyed in a global conflageration while a New Heaven and New Earth were reconstructed? What are these individuals still loafing and prowling about, unless New Jerusalem is the church itself on this current earth, where Christ came down to reign in our hearts? Weren't these individuals supposed to be completely destroyed and annihilated never to be seen ever again according to premillennialism and dispensationalism?
The Earth is the judgment throne, it is not the final resting place of the generations of man, this is temporary housing. Because this is the case, mankind's natural position is contrary to the gospel (freewill is contrary to all positions in a sense). Now when the gospel goes out, some people are saved those that fit the requirements of the gospel that has went out to judge the generations of man.

If "Freewill" is contrary to all positions in a sense, and sin is the consequence of being unprofitable. Then as long as "Freewill" exists, the potential to be unprofitable also exists. In the New Universe, sentient beings have "Freewill", and therefore they also have the ability to be "trolls". (In the Gospel mankind does not have the "Freewill" to be at all points contrary to the gospel and be inheritors ... Genetic Dan is such an example, God does not dump suicidal/incompatible souls to burden man in the bestow of the inheritance ... at best we suppress their sin until they are no longer a part of humanity, according to the gospel).

If the old order of Old Heaven and Old Earth has been completely dissolved, why in the New Heaven and New Earth:

Why are babies still being born, weren't we supposed to be like the angels not given to marriage?

Why do people still die, wasn't death supposed to be destroyed?

Why do people still build homes, plant vineyards, and still labour, didn't God build a city not made with human hands and prepared a place for all of us amongst His many mansions?

Mankind does not have possession of its own immortality in this universe. When mankind has this in his possession they will be like the angels. We cannot assume an entire race of people will gravitate towards the most optimum position, which entails the least amount of "indifference through transition", in relation to the sanctity of the consciousness in question. .................... The gospel does not make that assumption, instead we are equipped with a baseline to develop as a civilization, we will be introduced to a baseline in terms of being a civilization in the new universe. Which includes many of the elements are are already exposed to. .................... There was a question of absolution raised about the ego of intelligent lifeforms. The gospel does not also make that assumption, instead the gospel has an optimum position in terms of flexibility in developmental processes, leaving the assumption open to the developing civilization to wrestle with. ...................... Certain positions are unprofitable to the transition between universes. (representative of the unprofitable nature of certain positions is the relationship with humanity that must be euthanized, as a threat to the potential ... now we don't know who the antichrist is, but we do now, that we have no reason not to believe claims of acts of cleansing towards the goals of the gospel, as we approach closer to this day. Euthanasia and shame are the primary reasons the level of force doesn't go beyond a certain level, although it is good for us when it does solely as a result of their sin, so we are waiting to see what is necessary to happen soon, and repeatedly afterwards). The Parable of the Lost Son, Luke 15:11-32 restates these conclusion in a simplified way. (less then a few years ago, nearly two or so dozen people nearly dropped dead right outside my doorstep ... failed to train Genetic Dan to make things more convenient in remedying the threat, but we have a process now in place that works).

(Generationally if you follow the gospel recorded in the bible, mankind has been spiritually the "mass murderer", thus since mankind is the only lifeform in this universe, this universe is a "mass murderer" ... this position maybe easy to maintain spiritually in this universe, but it is not in the other universe. ... ... ... ... We don't often hear about entire races being vanquished or entire countries or armies, because of the innate need that has unfortunately overpowered man in wanting to have spiritual authority without the gospel and this is a very destructive position. This brings us to the "This Wicked Generation", ruled over by the Antichrist, regardless of weather mankind acknowledges this position or not, mankind is ultimately limited in what it can do against the Antichrist ... ... ... ... their wiles are not really rebuked, since the threat is really contained as it is ... ... ... ... the threat will pick up on some of this language and immediately die, when the opportunity presents itself, there is ample evidence of this happening, this is beneficial for the potential)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
Dec 10, 2013
3,646
262
Riverside California
✟14,087.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Only in the mind of the preterist

No, it is scriptural truth, Rev. 21-22 both speak of the New Heavens & New Earth, so does Isaiah 65:17-22, immediately after the judgment of Israel in A.D. 70 see Isaiah 65:15:

And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Isaiah 65:15

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 65:17




Still speaking of the New Heavens and New Earth proceeeding from verse 17:


Isa. 65:21`- building homes

Isa. 65:20 - childbearing

Isa. 65:20 - aging

Isa. 65:20 - death

Rev. 22:2 - nations aren't healed

Rev. 22:14-15 - sin
 
Upvote 0

Mark51

Newbie
Site Supporter
Nov 11, 2014
495
97
72
✟89,056.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The connection of the “heavens” with ruling power aids in understanding the meaning of the expression “new heavens and a new earth” found at Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 and quoted by the apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13. Observing such relationship, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891, Vol. IV, p. 122) comments: “In Isa. lxv, 17, a new heaven and a new earth signify a new government, new kingdom, new people.”

In the Bible, “earth” does not always refer to our globe. For instance, Psalm 96:1 says literally: “Sing to Jehovah, all the earth.” We know that our planet-the terra firma and the vast oceans-cannot sing. People sing. Yes, Psalm 96:1 is referring to the people on the earth. If “heavens” can symbolize the superior ruling power or government so, to “earth.” represents a new society of people.

The prophecy presenting the promise of “new heavens and a new earth,” given through Isaiah, was one dealing initially with the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile. Upon the Israelites’ return to their homeland, they entered into a new system of things. Cyrus the Great was used prominently by God in bringing about that restoration. Back in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) served as governor, and Joshua as high priest. In harmony with Jehovah’s purpose, this new governmental arrangement, or “new heavens,” directed and supervised the subject people.-2 Chronicles 36:23; Haggai 1:1, 14.

Peter, however, shows that a future fulfillment was to be anticipated, on the basis of God’s promise. (2 Peter 3:13) Since God’s promise in this case relates to the presence of Christ Jesus, as shown at verse 4, the “new heavens and a new earth” must relate to God’s Messianic Kingdom and its rule over obedient subjects. By his resurrection and ascension to God’s right hand, Christ Jesus became “higher than the heavens” (Hebrews 7:26) in that he was thereby placed “far above every government and authority and power and lordship…not only in this system of things, but also in that to come.” (Ephesians 1:19-21; Matthew 28:18) This Kingdom government, under Christ and his 144,000 corulers, is the new heavens.-Revelation 14:1.

These Christian followers of Jesus, as “partakers of the heavenly calling” (Hebrews 3:1), are assigned by God as “heirs” in union with Christ, through whom God purposed “to gather all things together again.” “The things in the heavens,” that is, those called to heavenly life, are the first to be thus gathered into unity with God through Christ. (Ephesians 1:8-11) Their inheritance is “reserved in the heavens.” (1 Peter 1:3, 4; Colossians 1:5; compare John 14:2, 3) They are “enrolled” and have their “citizenship” in the heavens. (Hebrews 12:23; Philippians 3:20) They form the “New Jerusalem” seen in John’s vision as “coming down out of heaven from God.” (Revelation 21:2, 9, 10) Since this vision is initially stated to be of “a new heaven and a new earth” (Revelation 21:1), it follows that both are represented in what is thereafter described. Hence the “new heaven” must correspond to Christ together with his “bride,” the “New Jerusalem,” and the “new earth” is seen in the “peoples of mankind” who are their subjects and who receive the blessings of their rule, as depicted in verses 3 and 4.

John’s vision refers to the passing away of “the former heaven and the former earth.” (Revelation 21:1; compare Isaiah 57:20; Revelation 20:11.) In the Christian Greek Scriptures, earthly governments and their peoples are shown to be subject to Satanic rule. (Matthew 4:8, 9; John 12:31; 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4; Revelation 12:9; 16:13, 14) The apostle Paul referred to “the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places,” with their governments, authorities, and world rulers. (Ephesians 6:12) So the passing away of “the former heaven” indicates the end of political governments along with Satan and his demons. This identification of “the former heaven” harmonizes with the fact that shortly before the statement concerning the “former heaven having passed away,” John had seen a vision of the complete defeat of Satan’s forces and the casting of Satan into “the abyss.”-Revelation 19:19-20:3.

As for the new earth, following the pattern of the ancient fulfillment, the new earth will be made up of people-from all nationalities, languages, and races-who gladly submit to the rulership of the new heavenly government. After the passing of the present wicked system of things, this group will form the nucleus of a new earth that will eventually be a globe-encircling society of God-fearing humans who inherit the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom.-Matthew 25:34.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums