Does the destruction of the environment have any place in a christian's life?

2ndCovanent · Apr 26, 2015

Steve Petersen said:
How far back should we go in our lifestyle? 100 years, 200, 1000....?

How about 2000

But really, I don't think it's a matter of switching the clock back and really. It's more of a matter of looking at ourselves individually and assessing out needs. Another part of pollution that isn't mentioned is the fact that it hurts creatures and people as well not just the planet. How much do we want to overlook that? But also, how much more will get hurt if we stopped relying on technology the way we do now? The more who would get hurt would have gotten hurt anyway I suppose? But those who are hurt are being hurt mostly because of our original selfish desire to make life easier.

Autumnleaf · Apr 26, 2015

The environment is destroyed in places like China so that wealthy conglomerates who are run by athiests can make lots of money. Few if any Christians are in that equation.

Strathos · Apr 27, 2015

Autumnleaf said:
The environment is destroyed in places like China so that wealthy conglomerates who are run by athiests can make lots of money. Few if any Christians are in that equation.

So are you saying we shouldn't care then?

durangodawood · Apr 27, 2015

Autumnleaf said:
The environment is destroyed in places like China so that wealthy conglomerates who are run by athiests can make lots of money. Few if any Christians are in that equation.

This thread is about how Christians should behave.

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · Apr 28, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
If as a christian, a person is to live their life honestly and have an honest income to supplement their honest possessions which aren't really theirs but are everyone else' that they know and love, then how can a christian justify engaging in activities that involve pollution? Things like work or simply commuting.

Wendell Berry addresses all of that in Christianity and The Survival of Creation.

2ndCovanent · Apr 30, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Wendell Berry addresses all of that in Christianity and The Survival of Creation.

Another day gone by and I still didn't find time to re-read this. Ah well.

I hope this isn't mentioned in the above link but if you consider that there are people whose lives are disrupted/people who are hurt or actually die because of pollution, is that not murder for someone to continue doing all those things that add to pollution? How can you say you love someone as much as yourself if you would let them live in a polluted environment? That seems like two commandments being ignored right there. Of course you get the people who ask God to bless them with a car or anything along those lines too. I don't know. Is all of this thinking too extreme or do I just see a logical flaw in what loving your neighbor as yourself is?

It's also worth noting that pollution and waste correlate with excess in our lives. The same excess that people pray to God to bless them with. Which to me seems like taking the Lord's name in vain. I don't know.

Why am I the only one who seems to see it this way?

RDKirk · Apr 30, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
Why am I the only one who seems to see it this way?

You've gotten a fair amount of agreement in this thread.

Armoured · Apr 30, 2015

durangodawood said:
Forward, not back.

Forward, not backward!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGmfiKowrYU

stevevw · Apr 30, 2015

RDKirk said:
The concept given by scripture is "stewardship." What do you consider to be good stewardship? Does good stewardship mean "never use," or does it mean "use wisely and with a gain for the master?"

The one-talent steward sought only "not to pollute," so he buried his talent and refused to use it for the master's gain. Was he correct?

Yeah I think use wisely is a good way to put it. If you dont need to use and abuse something then dont do it. But if it is really important and the means justifies the ends then I think on those occasions its OK. Its all a matter of conservation and being conscientious and respectful. We are living here on planet earth and I guess even wearing cloths has an impact. You could really break it down and even the food you buy can have an effect. I think at the least a Christian should be conserving and recycling things. Trying to do their part. Its putting into practice the principles good living right across the board.

grasping the after wind · Apr 30, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
If as a christian, a person is to live their life honestly and have an honest income to supplement their honest possessions which aren't really theirs but are everyone else' that they know and love, then how can a christian justify engaging in activities that involve pollution? Things like work or simply commuting.

First I must take issue with the idea that our"possessions" are really everyone else's. For a Christian our possessions and everything else are God's alone. As RD Kirk pointed out, as Christians( I wouldn't have to keep emphasizing this if you would have posted in a forum strictly for Christians and as your question was for Christians I think that might have been a good idea.Let me state now for all non Christians that whatever I am saying in this post is a Christian perspective and there is no pressing need to point out that not everyone agrees. If however, one feels an overwhelming need to point it out be my guest. I am not one to attempt to stifle free speech.) we are given stewardship over those possessions, not ownership, but the stewardship is ours not anyone else's.

As for engaging in activities that involve pollution, i am afraid that is simply unavoidable. You exhale gases that the EPA has determined harm the environment. If you decide to stop breathing you will begin to rot and further pollute the land and air and mayhap the ground water. Life and death are polluting activities. So there is a line that must be drawn. What activities are so environmentally destructive that we ought to divorce ourselves completely from them and what activities are not so destructive that we can engage in them without considering ourselves to be evil incarnate? I would say nuclear war is definitely in the first category and breathing is definitely in the second. The category to put the activities that fall into the vast gulf in between however is debatable and a matter of opinion. Not all opinions are equally informed but when it comes to morality and ethics and foreseeing the future unintended effects of our actions there is no absolute yardstick by which to measure. One may sincerely believe that by their driving of a single automobile they are sentencing the human race to destruction and another may sincerely believe that they could idle( in both senses of the word) millions of fleets of trucks constantly for years without causing enough harm to be concerned about. As Christians, we are to be responsible stewards which means we are to find a way to keep our environment safe while using the resources God gave us in creative ways. So we ought not to idle( in both senses of the word) fleets of trucks out of greed, fear or stupidity.

2ndCovanent · May 1, 2015

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Wendell Berry addresses all of that in Christianity and The Survival of Creation.

Would you be kind enough to summarize that like you did with with link you posted in the "I wouldn't want to be rich" thread? Please and thank you.

grasping the after wind said:
As for engaging in activities that involve pollution, i am afraid that is simply unavoidable. You exhale gases that the EPA has determined harm the environment. If you decide to stop breathing you will begin to rot and further pollute the land and air and mayhap the ground water. Life and death are polluting activities. So there is a line that must be drawn. What activities are so environmentally destructive that we ought to divorce ourselves completely from them and what activities are not so destructive that we can engage in them without considering ourselves to be evil incarnate? I would say nuclear war is definitely in the first category and breathing is definitely in the second. The category to put the activities that fall into the vast gulf in between however is debatable and a matter of opinion. Not all opinions are equally informed but when it comes to morality and ethics and foreseeing the future unintended effects of our actions there is no absolute yardstick by which to measure. One may sincerely believe that by their driving of a single automobile they are sentencing the human race to destruction and another may sincerely believe that they could idle( in both senses of the word) millions of fleets of trucks constantly for years without causing enough harm to be concerned about. As Christians, we are to be responsible stewards which means we are to find a way to keep our environment safe while using the resources God gave us in creative ways. So we ought not to idle( in both senses of the word) fleets of trucks out of greed, fear or stupidity.

Well then it seems that the few things that make causing pollution unavoidable are possibly the things that we can't control. But since pollution does harm the environment and disrupt lives, maybe we Christians should be first to move backwards on reducing it. This would be easier if we weren't so used to the excessive lifestyles we tend to live.

OldWiseGuy · May 2, 2015

Most pollution and waste comes from the production of our lifestyle, not the consuming of it. There are cleaner ways of providing the same goods and services, but industry has invested heavily in polluting technologies and cannot easily change without incurring great financial costs. Our consumer conservation efforts does little to alter this fact.

RDKirk · May 2, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
Most pollution and waste comes from the production of our lifestyle, not the consuming of it. There are cleaner ways of providing the same goods and services, but industry has invested heavily in polluting technologies and cannot easily change without incurring great financial costs. Our consumer conservation efforts does little to alter this fact.

This is a point. However, the worry about "great financial costs" is a worry about consumer reaction. Ultimately, there needs to be less consumption of luxuries...but the US economy is based on high consumption of luxuries.

OldWiseGuy · May 2, 2015

RDKirk said:
This is a point. However, the worry about "great financial costs" is a worry about consumer reaction. Ultimately, there needs to be less consumption of luxuries...but the US economy is based on high consumption of luxuries.

From a practical point of view we are not going to go backward. We have everything we need to have both the luxuries and a clean environment. The problem is that it is in our nature to be destructive, regardless of obvious solutions. We are not happy unless we make a big f------(foul) mess and someone gets hurt, in the bargain.

2ndCovanent · May 2, 2015

If we ever do achieve a level of consumerism that doesn't add to pollution, we would then have to progress to undoing the past damage. Even then, what good does a lot of consumerism have for us christians? It's somewhat of a distraction in my opinion. I think if we consider pollution and consumerism on an international scale, the picture is much more clear. We sit here arguing about exhaust gasses, but christians in other parts of the world worry about where they will pray in peace. We as north americans/1st worlders shouldn't even be conforming to the world as much as we do in my opinion. We can argue that our actions win souls because we feel like we reach out to people locally. But I'm sure that, if there was a movement big enough, souls would be won ALL OVER the place. But we would all have decide that we want to suffer as much as everyone else. Just like Hebrews 13:3 says. Hebrews 13 is really why this issue started showing up in my head.

RDKirk · May 2, 2015

2ndCovanent said:
If we ever do achieve a level of consumerism that doesn't add to pollution, we would then have to progress to undoing the past damage. Even then, what good does a lot of consumerism have for us christians? It's somewhat of a distraction in my opinion. I think if we consider pollution and consumerism on an international scale, the picture is much more clear. We sit here arguing about exhaust gasses, but christians in other parts of the world worry about where they will pray in peace. We as north americans/1st worlders shouldn't even be conforming to the world as much as we do in my opinion. We can argue that our actions win souls because we feel like we reach out to people locally. But I'm sure that, if there was a movement big enough, souls would be won ALL OVER the place. But we would all have decide that we want to suffer as much as everyone else. Just like Hebrews 13:3 says. Hebrews 13 is really why this issue started showing up in my head.

Well, if Hebrews 13 has you this worked up, you sure don't want to read 2 Corinthians 8 12-15. Most American pastors won't even read that one to their congregations.

durangodawood · May 3, 2015

RDKirk said:
Well, if Hebrews 13 has you this worked up, you sure don't want to read 2 Corinthians 8 12-15. Most American pastors won't even read that one to their congregations.

I'm sure theyve devised a "work around" interpretation for that one.

RDKirk · May 3, 2015

durangodawood said:
I'm sure theyve devised a "work around" interpretation for that one.

They just say it doesn't mean what it says.

But I've heard more than one pastor reading 2 Corinthians 8 to his congregation actually stop at verse 11 and skip to chapter 9.

Autumnleaf · May 3, 2015

Its atheist psychopaths who own factories that pollute. Mostly.

Strathos · May 3, 2015

Autumnleaf said:
Its atheist psychopaths who own factories that pollute. Mostly.

This is what we call scapegoating.

Does the destruction of the environment have any place in a christian's life?

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