Israel & the Church. See the Difference?

Aijalon said:

I accidentally failed to include the above in quote, which was LastSeven's words, not mine. Sorry. Fixing...

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I don't think that Lastseven is a millennialist.. LOL

LastSeven said:

My point exactly. The land promise was not about literal land. It's symbolic of a spiritual promise.

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Well, outsmarting the obvious by faiing to account for the narrative is also a problem. Here you see your view fails to account that Abraham was show a literal physical land, and Abraham's understanding of the issue was, obviously to mean a literal land. Therefore God was tricking him? God wanted him to think this?

This goes to the whole issue of the Law being a trick as well, where its rules were not actually "Good" but "bad", a trap to sin.

I reject this. ALl God's laws were and are good.

All his promise are real, not fake.

LastSeven said:

Where does it say that we enter the kingdom when he comes?

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Try Matthew 25... you know.. where He says to those on His right..

ThatTrueLight said:

I don't think that Lastseven is a millennialist.. LOL

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Something is wrong with my browswer and either EDIT or QUOTE function do not reaveal text, and I cannot fix it. EDIT shows a blank field.

LastSeven said:

Wrong. The kingdom of God is living in this evil world, but the kingdom of God has power over the evil within it.

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I would agree that Christians are already translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son.. although we also know that our citizenship is in heaven.. and that we are even dead.. Christ is our life.. and of course He is seated at the right hand of the Father waiting til His enemies be made His footstool.. and we also know that we see NOT YET all things put under Him..

LastSeven said:

Is that supposed to prove somebody wrong? I really don't understand your point here. Did somebody deny that we battle against spiritual powers?

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You said that we're reigning with Christ and that is incorrect.. according to Paul, we are dead and our life is hid in Christ with God..

So much for us reigning on the earth..

Then of course there are the rulers of the darkness of this world..

That is usually what rulers means.. that they rule over it..

Christians don't and that is what you said.

LastSeven said:

Christ is reigning already. He reigns from heaven, while we reign on earth at the same time. We are his ambassadors on earth.

At his return, his reign is complete.

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The saints dont' reign over the physical realm, they reign with Christ through his spirit. It is a spiritual reign now, physical later. We are servants to Christ, of which the world is unworthy.

If the saints reigned, they would not be martyred, lets keep to common sense.

The kingdom of God is physical as well as spiritual, and all things must be done in order.

Is God's will being done on earth? Um, no, not yet. It will be! After he comes.

Simply put it in order. Don't put the cart before the horse.

says "will reign" doesn't say they do yet. It's a simple tenses thing.

LastSeven said:

Revelation 5 clearly says that by Jesus' death, we were given reign on the earth.

You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.

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The revelation speaks of many things that are not yet.. like Christ coming again.. it's future, not present.. and as Paul says.. we are dead and our life is hid in Christ with God..

He's in heaven. Waiting til His enemies be made His footstool.. and of course we see NOT YET all things put under Him..

That's all true too..

LastSeven said:

It is not incorrect. We are currently reigning on earth, but you have to understand the nature of the kingdom is spiritual. We do not rule with armies and politicians. We rule over the spiritual world.

The powers of darkness rule over the earth, but we rule over them, as we have the power to rebuke them in Christ. Do you deny that, in Christ, you have the power over evil spirits?

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OK, Paul is wrong and you're right.. we're not actually dead and our life is not actually hidden in Christ with God.. we're all ruling the earth now..

Isn't that obvious..

LOL

LastSeven said:

It is not incorrect. We are currently reigning on earth, but you have to understand the nature of the kingdom is spiritual. We do not rule with armies and politicians. We rule over the spiritual world.

The powers of darkness rule over the earth, but we rule over them, as we have the power to rebuke them in Christ. Do you deny that, in Christ, you have the power over evil spirits?

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This is really splitting hairs now.

The issue really is the end state of the earth. You downplay the physical realm as of importance to the kingdom, a trivial matter that is resolved when the earth evaporates.

Nowhere is the earth evaporating, and the spiritual kingdom is not ALL there is, it is the primary thing.

so do we agree? Yes, on the primary thing

The realm of heaven and earth are separated as now, one kingdom VS the other. It is a conflict. The REIGN of the kingdom being given to the saints is the END of the conflict.

ThatTrueLight said:

I would agree that Christians are already translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son.. although we also know that our citizenship is in heaven.. and that we are even dead.. Christ is our life.. and of course He is seated at the right hand of the Father waiting til His enemies be made His footstool.. and we also know that we see NOT YET all things put under Him..

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The Last Enemy is death, spiritual death.

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

1 Corinthians 15:25-26, 54-56

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

2 Corinthians 3:7-13

Christ already conquered death, in A.D. 70 with the destruction of the temple (the ministration of death).

The sting of death = sin
The strength of sin = the Law

Check out the substraction equation below:

Death - the strength of sin (the Law) = no death (no sin-death, no spiritual death)!

Thus death has been put under the feet of Christ with the abolishment of the Mosaic Covenant (the Law) in A.D. 70 at the last trump!