Israel & the Church. See the Difference?

Danoh

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Yes. The word "fullness" used in Romans 11:25 is used in many other parts of scripture that clearly explain what it means.

The Greek word used is plērōma, which means a completeness, a filling up or a fulfillment. Now look at how this plērōma refers to the fulfillment we have in Christ.

Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment (plērōma) of the law.

1 Corinthians 10:26
26For(A) "the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness (plērōma) thereof."

Ephesians 1:22-23
And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness (plērōma ) of him who fills everything in every way.

Ephesians 3:19
19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness (plērōma ) of God.

Colossians 1:19
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness (plērōma ) dwell in him,

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Christ all the fullness (plērōma ) of the Deity lives in bodily form,

You're taking the generic sense of the word "fulness" - of a thing filled full - that each of those passages uses to describe the particular fulness each is speaking of, turning them all into a one size fits all, reading it into Romans 11:25, and then concluding that this one size fits all meaning of yours is the intended sense that Romans 11:25 is referring to.

Fulness simply means full of, or complete.

Love is the fulfillment, filling full, or completion of all that the Law commands.

The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof - all of it is completely His.

While, you really went south on Ephesians 1:

22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

23 Which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

The actual sense of that particular set of passages in Eph. 1 being God's predestinated purpose for this New Creature IN His Son - this Church which is His Body: the Body of Christ.
 
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ebedmelech

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How is it that you just cannot comprehend something so simple in John? Are these passages not clear they are referring to Jesus? How many Son does God have?

John 5:22-24
22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Quite disingenuous of you Jerico. Trying to infer I don't understand the difference between Adam as the son of God (as Luke 3:38 clearly says), apart from the uniqueness of Jesus the ONE AND ONLY Son of God. However keep playing games.
Do you know what this proves? Your brain dehydrated. Once again you falsely twist scriptures to promote your false teaching.

You claimed Adam and Eve knew about Jesus. So give us scriptures about Adam and Eve, not David.

By your way of thinking, I can claim anyone in the past prior to the first century knew about Jesus by flashing Matthew 22:41-46 up their cranial.

Eb, coffee's in the kitchen. Take a sip, wake up and realize Matthew 22:41-46 is about David, not Adam.
Really Jerico? Who do you think Adam and Eve talked too? Jesus is ETERNALLY God the son. Have you ever read Proverbs 8? For brevity I include Proverbs 8:22
22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.

Furthermore try reading Matthew 22:41-46 because Jesus question asked HOW DID DAVID CALL JESUS LORD in Psalm 110...remember? The Lord said TO MY LORD...??? Who is David's Lord Jerico?

Now what Jerico?

Yeah and Esau also wanted God's grace and begged his father Issac for it. Receiving God's grace is not the same as saying you're part of the 144,000. You actually think you can get anything you want from God that easily?
This is a distortion. Esau wanted HIS BIRTH RIGHT...so try to get that straight first Jerico. Once again you evade the facts of scripture and show you really don't know scripture.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Again you show your failure to comprehend EVERYTHING scripture says. What does Paul clearly say about this event? Did you miss Romans 9:11, 12?:
11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.”


You see how you're missing the true point? Don't try to win an argument Jerico...TRY TO KNOW THE TRUTH. This was said to Rachel BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN BORN...for God's purpose!
First thing I would do is obey the bible and realize the absurd teachings of AD 70. His grace does not mean you can sin all you want preaching falsely. Can you handle this first?
First you have to learn to read. To deny AD 70 is to show your inability to understand Matthew 24, Luke 21:5-36, and Mark 13. You're once again showing what you don't understand.

What do you think preterism is Eb? Who's future return do you think preterism is denying?

Do you have no clue at all?
No. First you show you understand preterism...because obviously you don't..do you understand full preterism and partial preterism? What is amillennialism? You really don't have a clue Jerico...and you try to come across like you know...when you're the clueless one.

For those who stand before God.

And when He ask you what have you do, what are you gonna tell Him? Oh I've been preaching 70 AD. Everything in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation all happened in 70 AD. No such thing as rapture, blah blah.

Your testimony will be very impressive.
No. I can't impress God, I can only honor and serve Him. Meantime you'll be asking Jesus "what happen to the pretrib rapture". Jesus will pat you on the head and say..."sit down...because this is gonna take some time..."
Do you have no clue at all?
Revelation 20:12-13
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
On this...I'll simply chalk it up to your ignorance of trying to know who's saved...when really you should do as scripture warns, and examine yourself Jerico.
No one care about when the temple was destroy. We're looking for Christ's future return. Are you ignoring this too?
Who said anyone cared Jerico? This shows your ignorance of the prophecy of Matthew 24 which Jesus explains for what reason Jerico? That would be He told the disciples THE TEMPLE WOULD BE destroyed (Matthew 24 1, 2)...which led to Jesus prophesying Matthew 24. You simply don't get the message.
Two verses fulfilled out of 31 prophecies in Matthew 24 does not mean Christ already came back. Is this too hard to understand Eb?
First you have to be able to correlate scripture Jerico...and you're showing you really can't.
YOU FAILED EB!

Read the next verse that you omitted: Romans 9:9.

Romans 9:9
For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.”
Once again Jerico, learn to correlate scripture. Ever read Galatians 3:16-19:?
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.


I'll let you work with that a while Jerico...obviously you missed it.
The 144,000 are the descendants of Jacob through Abraham. And you're not one of them.
So did you miss these passages Jerico:

Romans 4:16, 17:
16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants,not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
17 (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.


Galatians 3:29:
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Philippians 3:1-3:
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,


See if you can get what those passages are saying. I'll remain a descendant...ABRAHAM'S SEED through Christ! :thumbsup:
I'll bet you thought you were slick cutting off verse 9. EPIC FAILED! LOL
No...actually I'm pitying you because you're simply showing what you don't understand...and you're doing an excellent job!

And Paul also told us about the rapture in 1 Thess 4. How much of this have you learned? Paul never said it happened in AD 70.
NO. You've been TAUGHT 1 Thessalonians 4 is a rapture when really it's the ressurection! That is...*if* you'll really read it. The resurrection includes the rapture Jerico. Dead believers will be raised, living believers are caught up. Did you ever really read that passage, or just sit in a pew listening to a preacher? Take a look a 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14:
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.


This is simply a brief version of 1 Corinthians 15:12-58 Jerico.
For someone that don't believe in Paul's teaching, you're just biting the dust continueously Eb.
Actually, anyone reading this is probably laughing at you about now because you've done an excellent job of showing what you don't know Jerico...I mean SUPERB!
You do realize Paul, Peter, John and Timothy are not preterists, right? They're dispensationalist and knew nothing would happen in AD 70 except the temple.
You do realize Paul Peter, John and Timothy were alive when it was written....right? For them it was future.

I gave you credit for being smarter than that...guess I better go real slow with you...:thumbsup:
 
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Bible2

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Jerico Miles said in post 271:

The 144,000 are the descendants of Jacob through Abraham.

The 144,000 will all be Christians (Revelation 14:1,4), and so they will all be part of the church (cf. Ephesians 4:4-6). They will be the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12). They will be male virgins (Revelation 14:4), who could all have been born in the 20th or 21st century, and who could all already be part of the church. For they will all be alive on the earth, and will all already be God's servants (Revelation 7:3; cf. Romans 6:22, Philippians 1:1), by the time of Revelation 7:3-8, during the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will have entered the tribulation along with the rest of the church alive at that time, for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Also, the 144,000, who are of the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4-8), can include both Jews and Gentiles in the church. For all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

The tribe of Dan is missing from the list of the 144,000's twelve tribes (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19) because the Israel they are from isn't genetic Israel with its 12 genetic tribes which include Dan (Genesis 49:28,17), but rather spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6-8), which consists of all the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both elect Jews and elect Gentiles (Romans 9:24).
 
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ThatTrueLight said in post 276:

. . . tell me all about how you are an Israelite now, which tribe you're from . . .

Naphtali.

ThatTrueLight said in post 276:

Regardless of the simple biblical fact that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).

Note that in Galatians 3:28, Paul can't possibly mean there are no believers who are Jews or Gentiles in any sense, because elsewhere he shows, for example, that believers remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b). Similarly, Galatians 3:28 doesn't mean there are no believers who are males or females, for clearly we are still males or females with regard to our genitals, and with regard to other matters (1 Timothy 2:11-12; 1 Corinthians 14:34-37; 1 Corinthians 11:4-16; 1 Peter 3:7a).

So Galatians 3:28 can only mean there is no distinction between believing Jews and Gentiles, or between believing males and females, with regard to them being "one in Christ" (Galatians 3:28b), in the sense of them being one body in Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6), without distinction with regard to their salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Peter 3:7b).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

ThatTrueLight said in post 276:

And we'll ignore the real Israel over there in the news daily and pretend that THAT isn't really Israel . . .

Matthew 24:34 could mean the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

--

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the literal, fruitless fig tree (Matthew 21:19) foreshadowed his curse on the part of Old Covenant Israel which rejected him (Matthew 21:43), for a fig tree can represent Israel (Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9). And the Israel which was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel which Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

But Jesus' kingdom is still called "Israel" (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).
 
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BABerean2 said in post 278:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The great city where the Lord was crucified is Jerusalem.
The verse says at this point it is spiritually like Sodom.

That's right, with regard to its unbelievers.

But God still has regard for the land of Israel itself (as in Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (as in Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). For even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), the earthly Jerusalem itself will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

BABerean2 said in post 278:

Christ told the Jewish leadership their house would be left desolate.

Matthew 23:38 refers to the spiritual desolation of Jerusalem (Matthew 23:37) insofar as it rejects Jesus (1 John 5:12b, cf. Galatians 4:25), while Matthew 23:39 refers to the future salvation of the unbelieving elect Jews who will be living in Jerusalem at Jesus' 2nd coming, when they will see him in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29).

Also, Matthew 23:38, like Matthew 27:51, didn't mean the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem had become spiritually desolate. For it remained holy even after Jesus' death and resurrection. That is why the church continued to worship God there (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17). What the rending of the veil in Matthew 27:51 pictured was the opening of the holiest place in heaven to Christians (Hebrews 10:19-22, Hebrews 9:24), by the abolishing of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-27, Hebrews 10:9b), and by the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), at the moment Jesus died on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:50-51).

BABerean2 said in post 278:

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Revelation 2:9b and Revelation 3:9 were referring to unbelieving, genetic Jews living in the literal, 1st century AD cities of Smyrna and Philadelphia (Revelation 2:8, Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b). Unbelieving, genetic Jews aren't truly Jews in the sense that even though they are physically circumcised, they are spiritually uncircumcised (Acts 7:51), and so spiritually they aren't Jews (Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9). But all believers, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Revelation 3:9b could have been fulfilled in the 1st century AD, in the local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7), in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b). For Revelation 3:8's "open door" meant that Jesus had made it so that congregation could preach the gospel to the people living in that city (cf. 2 Corinthians 2:12, Colossians 4:3; 1 Corinthians 16:9), which evangelism could have eventually resulted in the salvation of the formerly-unbelieving genetic Jews living there (Revelation 3:9b).

BABerean2 said in post 278:

Christians who are promoting a rebuilt temple, with renewed animal sacrifices should rethink the idea in terms of the New Testament.

Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a 3rd Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple will coexist with the church like the 2nd temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The 3rd temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews, after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them, and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to (mistakenly) perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque, in order to keep the temple from being "defiled".

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).
 
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BABerean2 said in post 278:

Christians who are promoting a rebuilt temple, with renewed animal sacrifices should rethink the idea in terms of the New Testament.

One reason the 3rd Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government has been very careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy these buildings (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the current state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely.

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic city-state of (what they could call ) "the True Israel". They could establish this within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build on the Temple Mount a 3rd Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law, and banish every non-kosher person and thing from ever entering within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

(This could point to another reason that the current, secular government of Israel doesn't want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews build a 3rd temple: out of fear that the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders in Israel. So the secular leaders could want to simply place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a 3rd temple.)

Something which could help to bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the point of desiring to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in "Samaria and Judaea" (also called the "West Bank"), and in eastern Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. (Any such handover won't happen without a removal of Netanyahu from power, possibly by assassination.) For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they are allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

(A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons that the Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea, and eastern Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons that the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from requiring any such hindrance. But if down the road, pressure from the Arab masses for a Palestinian state becomes so extreme that it begins to threaten to overthrow U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender all of the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state.)

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements at some point in our future, something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place which He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount, and to let it remain under the religious control of the vile Muslims? Let us all rise up now, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands upon the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the occurrence of a series of great earthquakes in Jerusalem which will severely damage the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, to the point where they will stop being used. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see this as (in their words) "Clearly a portent from God that he will no longer allow Muslims to trample His Holy Mountain. We must now reassert total Jewish control over it and rebuild His Holy Temple there".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark, because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see a retrieval of the Ark as (in their words) "An unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, all armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it is out and the IDF troops actually see it, it is unlikely that they are going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount; they will be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin completely destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it is unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so they could order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical-weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.

BABerean2 said in post 278:

Renewed animal sacrifices in a rebuilt temple promoted by Dispensationalists would be an abomination to God and Christ.

Do you mean because the church is now the temple? If so, note that while the church as a whole is indeed a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexisted with the literal, 2nd temple building which was in Jerusalem in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), just as the church coexisted, and still coexists today, with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all of these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21), and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That is why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God, because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6), because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).
 
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ThatTrueLight

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You keep saying "regardless of the fact that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ" as though that somehow refutes anything I've said. In fact, that verse supports my position that Israel is not what you think it is, so I'm not sure why you keep saying it. Just because there is no Jew or Gentile does not mean there is no Israel.

I'm not sure why I keep saying it either, it's not as though the word of God actually means anything to those who can't see past AD70.

But you're an Israelite, regardless of the simple scriptural fact that in Christ there is neither JEW (that's an Israelite) or Gentile.

You say "Eph 2 not even once says that Christians are Israelites", and yet it does. Let me post it for you just one more time. This time pay attention please.

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people.

You see? Let me summarize to make it as easy as possible to see what it says here.

At that time we were excluded from citizenship in Israel, but now we are fellow citizens with God's people..

So does it, or does it not say that we are now citizens of Israel? Simple yes or no please.

NO, it doesn't.. it says that JEWS were citizens of God and Gentiles were NOT in the past.. and NOW GENTILES are also God's people through Christ..

But hey, if it makes you feel spiritually superior to be a JEW, then by all means be one.
 
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Jerico Miles

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Quite disingenuous of you Jerico. Trying to infer I don't understand the difference between Adam as the son of God (as Luke 3:38 clearly says), apart from the uniqueness of Jesus the ONE AND ONLY Son of God. However keep playing games.

Here we go again, back to John 5:22-24....for the 4th time now.

Eb, do you understand what the Son means when it has a uppercase "S" in it? This scriptures is about Jesus and only Jesus. It has nothing to do with Adam. Adam is a lowercase son. Small letter "s" dude!

Look anywhere in the book of John and you will not find Adam's name in it. It has nothing to do with Adam. Wake up OLD man!!!

The Son is only Jesus. How many Son do you think God have Eb?

John 5:22-24
22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.



Really Jerico? Who do you think Adam and Eve talked too? Jesus is ETERNALLY God the son. Have you ever read Proverbs 8? For brevity I include Proverbs 8:22
22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.

Furthermore try reading Matthew 22:41-46 because Jesus question asked HOW DID DAVID CALL JESUS LORD in Psalm 110...remember? The Lord said TO MY LORD...??? Who is David's Lord Jerico?

Now what Jerico?

Proverbs 8:22 has nothing to do with Matthew 22:41. If you can't find an appropriate rebuttal, at least find a passage you understand it's meaning.

Proverbs 8:22 is about God having the thought of creating man before He created the world.

Proverbs 8:22 (BBE) The Lord made me as the start of his way, the first of his works in the past.

So how does this tie into David in Matthew 22:41? What now Eb?

This is a distortion. Esau wanted HIS BIRTH RIGHT...so try to get that straight first Jerico. Once again you evade the facts of scripture and show you really don't know scripture.

Oh really!? Isn't the bible fun?

Genesis 25:34
Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.


Now what Eb?

Again you show your failure to comprehend EVERYTHING scripture says. What does Paul clearly say about this event? Did you miss Romans 9:11, 12?:
11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.”


You see how you're missing the true point? Don't try to win an argument Jerico...TRY TO KNOW THE TRUTH. This was said to Rachel BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN BORN...for God's purpose!

Eb, you might wanna hide your head in the sand.

Nowhere in the book of Romans will you find Rachel's name in it. This has nothing to do with her.

It mentions Sarah, wife of Abraham and Rebecca, wife of Issac. Wrong wife dude.

Isn't the bible fun? LOL!

Now what Eb?!

First you have to learn to read. To deny AD 70 is to show your inability to understand Matthew 24, Luke 21:5-36, and Mark 13. You're once again showing what you don't understand.

Nope. "To deny AD 70 is to show your ability to understand Matthew 24:3-51"

No. First you show you understand preterism...because obviously you don't..do you understand full preterism and partial preterism? What is amillennialism? You really don't have a clue Jerico...and you try to come across like you know...when you're the clueless one.

Do you really think you need to know preterism to understand the bible?

Why would anyone want to think of the bible as a history book?

Why not create a new theology and pretend everything is all future. You know, Adam and Eve is still future. This the same as preterism but reverse.

No. I can't impress God,

Well that's one true statement. Guess what? No one else is impress with your teachings either.

Who said anyone cared Jerico? This shows your ignorance of the prophecy of Matthew 24 which Jesus explains for what reason Jerico? That would be He told the disciples THE TEMPLE WOULD BE destroyed (Matthew 24 1, 2)...which led to Jesus prophesying Matthew 24. You simply don't get the message.

All wrong. Matthew 24:3-51 is about the future return of Christ. You will not find one verse in Matthew 24:3-51 about the temple.

Unless all prophesies in Matthew 24:3-51 were fulfilled, Christ has not return.


First you have to be able to correlate scripture Jerico...and you're showing you really can't.

Once again Jerico, learn to correlate scripture. Ever read Galatians 3:16-19:?
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.


I'll let you work with that a while Jerico...obviously you missed it.

Why do you post scriptures if you can't explain what it means?

Can you correlate this?

Daniel 8:5
And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.



So did you miss these passages Jerico:

Romans 4:16, 17:
16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants,not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
17 (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.


Galatians 3:29:
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Philippians 3:1-3:
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,


See if you can get what those passages are saying. I'll remain a descendant...ABRAHAM'S SEED through Christ! :thumbsup:

Those passages does not make you a member of the 144,000. Stop fooling yourself, they's not part of Christ yet till the tribulation.

See if you can understand that.

No...actually I'm pitying you because you're simply showing what you don't understand...and you're doing an excellent job!

So you're 60 years old huh?

You make me feel like the fountain of youth the way I make you act like a kid.

What now Eb?


NO. You've been TAUGHT 1 Thessalonians 4 is a rapture when really it's the ressurection! That is...*if* you'll really read it. The resurrection includes the rapture Jerico. Dead believers will be raised, living believers are caught up. Did you ever really read that passage, or just sit in a pew listening to a preacher? Take a look a 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14:
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.


This is simply a brief version of 1 Corinthians 15:12-58 Jerico.

Actually, anyone reading this is probably laughing at you about now because you've done an excellent job of showing what you don't know Jerico...I mean SUPERB!

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


How do you resurrect someone alive?

Now what Eb?

You do realize Paul Peter, John and Timothy were alive when it was written....right?

Really?! No way!!!!!!!!!!! They were dead in the graves when they wrote their books.

For them it was future.

I disagree. It all happened in AD 70!

You need some work to do Eb!
 
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Jerico Miles

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As I suspected. You can't prove the Father is the creator because the Bible does not say that the Father is the creator.

The Bible says God is the creator, and it also says all things were made through Jesus, but it never says all things were made through the Father. This proves that Jesus is God.

"For thy maker is thine husband" means that Israel is married to Christ, since all things were made through Christ.


You suspect wrong, dead wrong! If you can't understand when the bible said God create the heaven and the earth, it refers to the Father as the creator, you need therapy.

Just as you're not able to decipher between the Father and the Son, you mistaken Christ being married to Israel.

Why don't you confess what you're really trying to do here? Mislead us to believe the Church and Israel are one in the same and you're just using Christ's name to make your point.

You have no idea how lost you are.

The Bible repeatedly says that God is the creator and also refers to God as our Father, but that does not negate the fact that all things were created through Jesus, and that therefore Jesus is our maker.

And by this reasoning, Israel and the Church are one in the same is how you come up with your conclusion.

Absolutely skew logic!

Did I mention how lost you are yet?
 
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ivanc0

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could some one explain why if Jesus said "no one have seen God" then the old testament say "jacob has seen God face to face and survived"

Jacob said he has won a wresting game with God.

Jacob said Israel means the one who prevail against God.

Could some one please explain.!
 
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ThatTrueLight

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could some one explain why if Jesus said "no one have seen God" then the old testament say "jacob has seen God face to face and survived"

I think that it means this;

Jacob is Israel. His twelve sons make up the twelve tribes of Israel. This is so basic that it can only be missed intentionally imo.

When Christ came into the world the first time as that babe in the manger.. Jacob (the nation of Israel) saw the face of God and survived.. even though that nation crucified the man of Nazareth who is God's beloved Son.

We know the rest of the story because of the book of Acts. Israel continues in its rejection of Christ (as a nation) and they're cut off. Paul is raised up to take the gospel of God's Son to the GENTILES while Israel is cut off from the root which is CHRIST.

Jacob said he has won a wresting game with God.

Jacob is Israel and his twelve sons.. remember that. This portion speaks of the man Jacob wresting with the man all night.. IMO its much deeper meaning is that Jacob (Israel as a nation) still struggles with the idea that God is a man, as in Jesus of Nazareth.

Israel till this day rejects Jesus of Nazareth as God's beloved Son.. although all of that is about to change.

Jacob said Israel means the one who prevail against God.

Could some one please explain.!

Jacob will be saved in the end.. delivered from the entire world coming against them in that day.. the day of the LORD..

It's so clear in the scriptures that it cannot be missed or denied.. the only reason it is constantly denied right here is because it is the simple truth which of course the rulers of the darkness of this world, simply can't stand.
 
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ThatTrueLight

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Thanks for your explanation, but is the history a metaphor or is real?

I think that it's both. Historically Christ did come into this world and He came to His own people in Israel.

Jacob is Israel, and his twelve sons.

Wouldn't you agree that the gospel narratives show us Jesus of Nazareth coming to Israel?

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh even though we understand that He veiled His glory then so to speak.

for your answer, could I infer that Jacob did not see God, but was an allegory for the future?

Thanks

Once again I think that it's both and Jacob DID see God.. Jacob (Israel) did see God when Christ came the first time.. and they're going to see His face again when He delivers them the second time, in that Day which we all can see approaching.
 
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BABerean2

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I think that it means this;

Jacob is Israel. His twelve sons make up the twelve tribes of Israel. This is so basic that it can only be missed intentionally imo.

When Christ came into the world the first time as that babe in the manger.. Jacob (the nation of Israel) saw the face of God and survived.. even though that nation crucified the man of Nazareth who is God's beloved Son.

We know the rest of the story because of the book of Acts. Israel continues in its rejection of Christ (as a nation) and they're cut off. Paul is raised up to take the gospel of God's Son to the GENTILES while Israel is cut off from the root which is CHRIST.



Jacob is Israel and his twelve sons.. remember that. This portion speaks of the man Jacob wresting with the man all night.. IMO its much deeper meaning is that Jacob (Israel as a nation) still struggles with the idea that God is a man, as in Jesus of Nazareth.

Israel till this day rejects Jesus of Nazareth as God's beloved Son.. although all of that is about to change.



Jacob will be saved in the end.. delivered from the entire world coming against them in that day.. the day of the LORD..

It's so clear in the scriptures that it cannot be missed or denied.. the only reason it is constantly denied right here is because it is the simple truth which of course the rulers of the darkness of this world, simply can't stand.


The statement above makes the false claim that Israel rejects Christ.

However, at this present time thousands of the descendants of Jacob are accepting Christ as their Messiah.

In Romans 9, 10, and 11, the Apostle Paul provides many examples of a faithful remnant of Israel opposed to a majority of unbelievers.

The same thing happened in the first century and is continuing at the present time through groups like "Jews for Jesus".

The idea that the whole nation will accept Christ is not scriptural.

Based on scripture, only a remnant will accept Christ.




Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


.
 
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Well than you're just wasting your own time because you refuse to get the facts straight even after I told you I believe in God and Christ's work on the cross. If you can't spend a little time to read back a few pages to find the truth or look at the link I gave you, you got no argument, no credibility, no knowledge and no truth in anything you've said.

Once again that has nothing pertaining to the actual issue I addressed with you. Please take the time to actually read what I addressed and why.

And how would you know it's twenty pages of stubborn ignorance if you haven't read them? You're a liar and hypocrite. Now go read those twenty pages unless you can't prove me wrong.

One other thing. Are you LastSeven on some alternate account? No one can be this bad and stand behind some of the things he's said.

Hmm, I just noticed you joined CF on April 21, 2015 and this thread was created on April 19th. And you sure been hostile with me right off the get-goat.

Hey I don't know if you and the OP are one in the same person but feel free to create a new account.

I think it's pretty evident that the only person who is being abusive is you. It takes less than a minute to flick through your recent posts and see quite clearly that you are so conceited that wasting time to bring to light your errors is pointless. Once again calling someone a liar and a hypocrite highlights your own foolishness, I hope your attitude changes, because it surely doesn't reflect well for a self professing christian.

In regards to Lastseven, I have no idea who the person is or what petty grievance you have with him, nor does it concern me. So please don't drag me into whatever conflict you have with others.
 
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ThatTrueLight

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Israel as a nation til this day rejects Christ. That's as obvious as it gets.

If men would like to refute that and at the same time pretend that they (Gentiles) are the true Israelites now, while the nation over there in the mid east isn't... then that's what you can expect as the height of becoming wise in their own conceits.

It's as bad as it gets.

That's the AD70 argument for ya folks..

Israel isn't Israel anymore and they are..

It's exactly what becoming wise in ones own conceits looks like.

On display for all to see as they pretend to love the God of Abraham, Isaac, and yes of course.. JACOB.
 
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BABerean2

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Israel as a nation til this day rejects Christ. That's as obvious as it gets.

If men would like to refute that and at the same time pretend that they (Gentiles) are the true Israelites now, while the nation over there in the mid east isn't... then that's what you can expect as the height of becoming wise in their own conceits.

It's as bad as it gets.

That's the AD70 argument for ya folks..

Israel isn't Israel anymore and they are..

It's exactly what becoming wise in ones own conceits looks like.

On display for all to see as they pretend to love the God of Abraham, Isaac, and yes of course.. JACOB.

When did Israel as a whole nation of people ever accept God?

Even after God saved the children of Israel from the Egyptian army, Korah and those who followed him rebelled against Moses and were destroyed.

"National Salvation" is just one more claim of Dispensational Theology that cannot be found in God's Word.

The ultimate in conceit it to reject the clear teaching of scripture.

Some have replaced God's Word with manmade doctrine.

 
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BABerean2

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This is how I know who the trolls are.. those who base their entire eschatology on AD70.

Pretending to be Israelites while they're Gentiles, and ignoring the simple fact that the nation of Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

As if it's difficult to understand or something.. or that it means something other than what it plainly says.. the exact reason why you can't ever explain what it does mean.

Because you know exactly what it means.. and play like it means something completely different.

As if that isn't obvious.

It has been explained numerous times by those on this forum saying what is plainly written in Romans 9, 10, and 11.

Part of Israel has been blinded and part of Israel has not been blinded and have accepted Christ as their Messiah.

You just keep ignoring what Paul and we are saying because it does not agree with your doctrine.

 
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ThatTrueLight

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It has been explained numerous times by those on this forum saying what is plainly written in Romans 9, 10, and 11.

Part of Israel has been blinded and part of Israel has not been blinded and have accepted Christ as their Messiah.

You just keep ignoring what Paul and we are saying because it does not agree with your doctrine.


And you're Israel... LOL... and the real Israel that so many want to wipe off the face of the earth isn't really Israel..

You are..

Don't worry, we get it.

AD70..

As we see that Day approaching we'll continue to wonder at those who can't see it even if it's right in front of their own nose.
 
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