NSA and FBI fight to retain spy powers. Where is Oblah-Blah?

Aldebaran said:

Or not file them. Word is that he hasn't payed any taxes in 10 years. Let him prove that he has.

Click to expand...

Some folk can't keep their anti-Obama propaganda straight. This is why firing squads form a line instead of a circle.

Mitt Romney gives more to charity than President Obama, Joe Biden - POLITICO.com

Aldebaran said:

Or not file them. Word is that he hasn't payed any taxes in 10 years. Let him prove that he has.

Click to expand...

We are talking about Obama, aren't we?

His tax returns are published every year!

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-pn-obama-tax-return-20150411-story.html

Now, let's see you prove you filed your taxes!

Whoever you are getting this nonsense from is filling your head with lies.

TerranceL said:

Incidentally the first two pages of this thread are a great example why using juvenile names for political figures is a stupid idea.

You took what would have been a decent threat discussing Obama's shifting opinion on the NSA the FBI and the Patriot Act and turned it into a thread where people discuss you.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Stupid juvenile names like "Oblah-blah" and all the other childish antics some come up with just distract. Sad thing is they think they're being really clever and sticking it to him.

Back to the OP topic, unfortunately it really just shows how people flip flop on a number of issues. Especially the supporters who really seem to support things based on what letter is after someone's name.

I remember when during Bush any criticism of the wars or his actions was unpatriotic and giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Whereas for the other side all war was bad and we shouldn't be doing anything. Now we have a democratic POTUS and the right is constantly criticizing and undermining him in the name of "principles" or whatever and being against things they once supported. And the left is all of a sudden not so upset with the bombings, GITMO, PATRIOT Act, etc.

Both sides are for things before they're against them simply for political reasons.

Obama should be chastised for not reigning in the NSA and domestic spying.

HerbieHeadley said:

you make a fine point, however no one seems to care. aside from the comments about me, we get "My personal feelings regarding government surveillance are irrelevant" and the only comments otherwise have been about anything else.

When I think of how much I debated within my own conscience what the patriot act entailed and the balance between how our free liberty was under suppression, it really surprises me that no one even attempts to call out Oblah-Blah for his blatant lies and hypocrisy.

I agree with your assertion, nevertheless.

Click to expand...

You agree that calling Obama juvenile names is a stupid idea, yet you continue to call him names. Did you understand what he said?

Then why not just stop calling him stupid names? It appears you agree with him while you tried to blame me for this thread. You are blaming me even in this post.

HerbieHeadley said:

you make a fine point, however no one seems to care. aside from the comments about me, we get "My personal feelings regarding government surveillance are irrelevant" and the only comments otherwise have been about anything else.

When I think of how much I debated within my own conscience what the patriot act entailed and the balance between how our free liberty was under suppression, it really surprises me that no one even attempts to call out Oblah-Blah for his blatant lies and hypocrisy.

I agree with your assertion, nevertheless.

Click to expand...

Did you agree with the Patriot Act before Obama? All the ridiculous unconstitutional powers the Patriot Act bestowed upon the NSA and the FBI existed before Obama, so I want to know why you suddenly disagree with it now.

ChristsSoldier115 said:

Did you agree with the Patriot Act before Obama? All the ridiculous unconstitutional powers the Patriot Act bestowed upon the NSA and the FBI existed before Obama, so I want to know why you suddenly disagree with it now.

Click to expand...

I was completely against it from the start, and I am still against it. The OP is misinformed if he believes that only Obama has control over the the Patriot Act.

McConnell Introduces Bill to Reauthorize Patriot Act Until 2020 - NationalJournal.com

The OP has two agendas....that is to call the President silly names and make everybody think President Obama is the only person who has any say in Washington.

Who is this "Oblah-blah" person you keep talking about? Is there a picture or a Facebook profile or something we can look at? We can't understand what you mean unless you tell us about an actual person who exists.

Anafany said:

Who is this "Oblah-blah" person you keep talking about? Is there a picture or a Facebook profile or something we can look at? We can't understand what you mean unless you tell us about an actual person who exists.

Click to expand...

As he used to say, He is the pres__ent. (where is the id?) LOL

JustOneWay said:

As he used to say, He is the pres__ent. (where is the id?) LOL

Click to expand...

Who?

If he means the President of the United States his name is President Obama. There is no President Oblah-blah and never has been as far as records go back to the first President of the United States. Sooooooo...either HerbieHedley is posting from a future or alternate universe where there is such a person as "Oblah-blah" OR he's just making things up.

I'm going with the alternate universe for a grand Pat.

Armoured said:

I can't help but suspect, Herbie, that when outrageous overreach and surveillance was brought in in the Patriot Act, you would have been dismissive of people's concerns with a pat "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about". If my suspicion is wrong, i apologise, but it does seem a lot of people only get concerned about such things all of a sudden when it's the other side in power.

Click to expand...

I recall reading threads when the Patriot Act was passed, and I can't recall a single Republican that was against the Patriot Act. Instead, they trusted the government to use the powers wisely and, if they overstepped somewhat, that good, upstanding Americans had nothing to fear. It is funny, with the word hypocrisy being thrown around, that they seem to be hitting themselves rather than those they are aiming for.

While I'm Independent, I was unhappy when Obama renewed the Patriot Act last time. I've been against it from the beginning. From what I've seen, no one on this thread has defended Obama for renewing the Patriot Act, nor wants him to sign the bill this time, either.

stamperben said:

I'm going with the alternate universe for a grand Pat.

Click to expand...

Seems like it wouldn't be the first time Herbie has been accused of living in his own little (alternate) world.

Maren said:

I recall reading threads when the Patriot Act was passed, and I can't recall a single Republican that was against the Patriot Act. Instead, they trusted the government to use the powers wisely and, if they overstepped somewhat, that good, upstanding Americans had nothing to fear. It is funny, with the word hypocrisy being thrown around, that they seem to be hitting themselves rather than those they are aiming for.

While I'm Independent, I was unhappy when Obama renewed the Patriot Act last time. I've been against it from the beginning. From what I've seen, no one on this thread has defended Obama for renewing the Patriot Act, nor wants him to sign the bill this time, either.

Click to expand...

One of the many stupid things about American politics is that our politicians are unable to think more than an administration ahead.

I remember a few months after the PA was passed and the more insane aspects of it were being discussed. On the board I was on at the time I brought up how amazingly easy it would be to exploit the act to do vile things.

The consensus was, "But we trust the Bush administration", to which I responded, "Well what are you going to do when an administration you don't trust gets into power?"

Well apparently the republicans were going to come together to totes clean up the act so it couldn't be exploited.

If you don't trust what the next administration will do with the powers you've given the government perhaps you shouldn't be giving those powers to the government in the first place?

HerbieHeadley said:

in the day, the patriot act was described as a fast track way of surveillance without the wait for a subpoena from a judge due to delays in government.

Click to expand...

Not really. That was the warrant less searches scandal from the Bush Administration where it was revealed that the Bush Administration allowed wiretaps without a warrant on domestic calls.

That did not describe the Patriot Act.

HerbieHeadley said:

No. I did not "agree" with the patriot act due to it's unconstitutional power grab. I however was a W supporter and believed he wouldn't ask for these supposedly "temporary" powers for the war against terror if they were not absolutely necessary and did not speak out either pro nor con.

in the day, the patriot act was described as a fast track way of surveillance without the wait for a subpoena from a judge due to delays in government.

somehow, it became total surveillance of ever American and physical molestation and or radiation at every airport.

Click to expand...

bolded for emphasis.
Actually, it always has been that.

Why does a political shift in who sits in the white housemake you suddenly distrust the government now more than ever? it doesn't make sense. Do you think it just got bad with Obama? Or have you finally realized the increase in government power with Obama happening to take a seat? Will you return to trusting the government blindly if a republican't returns to the throne, or will the distrust continue regardless of republican't or democrap?

It has been growing steadily like this since the end of WW2.

JustOneWay said:

Not really. That was the warrant less searches scandal from the Bush Administration where it was revealed that the Bush Administration allowed wiretaps without a warrant on domestic calls.

That did not describe the Patriot Act.

Click to expand...

ChristsSoldier115 said:

bolded for emphasis.
Actually, it always has been that.

Why does a political shift in who sits in the white housemake you suddenly distrust the government now more than ever? it doesn't make sense. Do you think it just got bad with Obama? Or have you finally realized the increase in government power with Obama happening to take a seat? Will you return to trusting the government blindly if a republican't returns to the throne, or will the distrust continue regardless of republican't or democrap?

It has been growing steadily like this since the end of WW2.

Click to expand...

Yes, for example, the NSA surveillance issues did not start during the Obama administration; in fact it started shortly after 9/11. The information on Stellar Wind, about most of the abuses, came out in 2008 before Obama was even in office.

Just to be clear, I blame Obama for not shutting down these activities. It is, however, clear that most Republicans only started to care about these programs after Obama was in the White House.