My Alcohol Challenge

ViaCrucis said:

...is that a joke? I really don't know if this is a joke or not.

1) In jurisdictions where marijuana is legal no it is not a sin to smoke it.

2) No, marijuana can't kill you; though the inhalation of any combustible material is bad for you and carcinogenic.

3) No sane person would believe 2 Kings 4:40 is talking about marijuana--to which I repeat: Is this a joke?

-CryptoLutheran

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With AV sometimes it's hard to tell.

AV1611VET said:

Why don't you guys read what I wrote again please?

For nine years, all I do is post you guys' comments who disagree with me.

Going outside of CF to post a link to an article that does the same thing surely isn't going to faze me in the least.

Especially if, embedded in that article, is a point that is agreeing with something I'm saying.

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There is nothing in that article that agrees with you.

When and why did you stop being a King James Onlyist?

To summarize:
AV is not literal in his interpretation of KJB.

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AV1611VET said:

If China can grow grapes to make wine, China can grow grapes to make grape juice.

Of course it would.

If they kept the water polluted on purpose, then they could make a killing off selling wine.

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AV, you confuzzle me. Sometimes I think you're sweet and just enjoy joshing around, and then I wonder if you're seriously being serious and I get a tad bit concerned about you.

AV1611VET said:

Which of my beliefs confuzzle you? Jesus turning water into grape juice, or drinking is a sin? or both?

Thank you.

But I'm wondering: do you feel concerned for all Christians who think Jesus turned water into grape juice, and drinking is a sin? or just me?

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We are concerned about you, because we care.

I'm with AV on this one.

Not about alcohol. But that our own personal feelings come first. Scripture must adapt to us, or we'll make sure it does.

AV1611VET said:

Which of my beliefs confuzzle you? Jesus turning water into grape juice, or drinking is a sin? or both?

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There's a lot that sorta bewilders me, actually, haha. I don't understand the dedication to literalism in some regards and then altering the meaning of scriptures to tailor them to your own beliefs in others. I'm not trying to be offensive or accusatory or anything; you've always been nice to me. Just honest.

But the last post to me in particular was kinda confuzzling because I didn't know if you were being serious or kidding. China doesn't deliberately keep their water polluted to make money off of beer and wine....

But I'm wondering: do you feel concerned for all Christians who think Jesus turned water into grape juice, and drinking is a sin? or just me?

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I don't think many Christians believe Jesus turned water into grape juice. I think it would be kinda anachronistic, right? I did look this up just now out of curiosity. Granted, Got Questions isn't the best resource, but it seems to have some solid points:
Did Jesus change the water into wine or grape juice?

As for alcohol consumption, most Christians I know feel like moderation and context are what matters. Drinking in excess or having an addiction is unhealthy but alcohol can actually be quite beneficial to your health. Drinking in front of a friend or relative you know is an alcoholic isn't kind. I don't know. I've been around Christian adults who drink responsibly most of my life, and I've never seen any of them drunk, buzzed, or acting foolishly or inappropriately.

AV1611VET said:

Two things, guys:

1. Jesus turned water into grape juice.

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Only in the Bible that you have rewritten for your own purposes.

AV1611VET said:

Does God have feathers?

Psalm 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

Is an atom indivisible?

When God speaks of His "wonderful plagues" ...

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

... should we assume they are awful*?

Does it bother you when some argue that "virgin" means "young woman," but "wine" can't mean "grape juice"?

* Meaning "terrible" -- rather than "full of awe."

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Why would they drink grape juice at a wedding?

AV1611VET said:

Because the water isn't potable?

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Miracle,... duh!



Why do you think the bridegroom would serve bad & good grape juice at his wedding, and not just "good?"

10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

AV1611VET said:

I believe they had been drinking alcoholic wine and ran out.

When Jesus created non-alcoholic wine, they were perplexed, thinking they were drinking alcoholic wine.

Either that, or man-made grape juice cannot compete with God-made grape juice.

As some like to say: God doesn't make junk.

I just think the default position on the word "wine" in the Bible is of the non-alcoholic variety, unless the context shows otherwise.

But today, the default position has changed.

In my teen years, "being queer" meant being odd.

Today, the default position has changed to something else.

Even in an episode of Leave it to Beaver, Wally asks someone, "You wanna mess around?"

I know exactly what he meant; but if he said it today, the laugh track would go off.

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Kills you to think that Jesus was a wine connoisseur, and was tired of the cheap stuff they served first, so he made a better vintage.

AV1611VET said:

I believe they had been drinking alcoholic wine and ran out.

When Jesus created non-alcoholic wine, they were perplexed, thinking they were drinking alcoholic wine.

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They were that drunk? Why then did they think the new wine was so much better?

Either that, or man-made grape juice cannot compete with God-made grape juice.

As some like to say: God doesn't make junk.

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Agreed, those party guests were expecting alcoholic wine -- and under your current theory, they were already drinking alcoholic wine and expected more -- and God, being God, doesn't disappoint.

I just think the default position on the word "wine" in the Bible is of the non-alcoholic variety, unless the context shows otherwise.

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And you are more than welcome to your own beliefs, hang-ups, and errors, so long as you don't attempt to pass them off as God's.

AV1611VET said:

Does God have feathers?

Psalm 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

Is an atom indivisible?

When God speaks of His "wonderful plagues" ...

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

... should we assume they are awful*?

Does it bother you when some argue that "virgin" means "young woman," but "wine" can't mean "grape juice"?

* Meaning "terrible" -- rather than "full of awe."

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Nah. I'm also at peace with the KJV of the Bible having unicorns. But I've never been a Bible literalist who believes that Adam and Eve were historical figures living in the paradisal Eden rather than allegorical ones; that there was an actual conniving talking snake; that eight extremely old Bronze Age humans who were progeny of Adam and Eve's incestuous family built an ark to survive an exterminating global flood, or that Noah's family then repopulated the world through incest.