OK, I have to state it.

amanuensis63

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They can't sell in Michigan either, because they won't set up a dealership there, or they won't work with a dealership.

I am confused as to the specifics. But I can't afford a Tesla anyway so I don't care. ;)

There is no such thing as "free market" in the US. The point is that Tesla can't sell precisely BECAUSE they won't go with the dealership model. They ran up against an entrenched industry that set the rules in their favor.

Meanwhile the marketplace is changing and this type of Tesla Sales Model threatens the dealership model so they freeze them out with laws.

So next time you hear a conservative talk about the glory of the free market just remember that they have no earthly idea what such a beast would look like since it doesn't actually exist.

Least of all in Red States like Texas.
 
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amanuensis63

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Dealers are part of the distribution, marketing, and support network and not superfluous to the transaction.

But, as another poster pointed out, there is no chance that a "Tesla dealership" would be endangered by Tesla opening up a company store down the street.

What it effectively does is tell Tesla that Tesla is NOT ALLOWED to compete against Toyota, Ford, GMC, etc. etc.

Depends on where you live and how affluent the people are. IIRC, a Model S runs between $65k-$100k, which is comparable to a lot of Porsches, mid/upper-level Mercedes, and upper-level BMW's and Corvettes. I used to see a lot of Teslas when I lived in Boston (and more lower-level BMW's and Mercedes' than domestics). But the Model S isn't their only car - the Model 3 they're working on is supposed to come in at $35000 before incentives, which would put it in direct competition with any full-sized sedan.

But not in competition with other Tesla dealerships, which is the point of the legislation.

Right now it simply tells Tesla that Tesla has to sell in the exact same way that Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, etc sell.

Tesla is trying to utilize the market as it currently is, not as the old 1950's style selling works.

And, of course, in America innovation must be punished.
 
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amanuensis63

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The beauty of a car like the Tesla is that we can now expect all of the caring environmentally conscious Democrats to buy one. :D

Maybe those who don't understand where electricity comes from.

It's about feeling good. Kinda like with the lead-infused Toyota Prius. ;)

The one advantage to an electric car is that it IS technically possible to recharge using solar. If I had a Tesla I could plug it in at home and since most of my electricity needs are met by my 3kW solar PVC unit on my roof it COULD be environmentally advantageous. Assuming, of course, that the battery doesn't end up causing more environmental issues in its manufacture and disposal.

A gasoline powered car can never have this advantage.
 
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NightHawkeye

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The one advantage to an electric car is that it IS technically possible to recharge using solar. If I had a Tesla I could plug it in at home and since most of my electricity needs are met by my 3kW solar PVC unit on my roof it COULD be environmentally advantageous. Assuming, of course, that the battery doesn't end up causing more environmental issues in its manufacture and disposal.
Noting that your puny 3 kW solar charger is a small fraction of Tesla's 120 kW charging station capability.

Unless you work nights or have your solar charger at work then you might have trouble keeping your Tesla charged ... unless you have a spare set of batteries you can charge up while your car is off at work ... and then transfer that charge back to your Tesla later ... noting a significant loss of efficiency in doing so.
A gasoline powered car can never have this advantage.
Not sure that puny 3 kW solar charger which only works in the middle of the day after your car has transported you to work ... is gonna keep that Tesla battery charged up very well. Just sayin ...
 
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stamperben

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I too am fascinated that such a red state as Texas would put such a high value on state control of commerce.

Perhaps Texas Central Planning should meet with the Texas Duma to discuss the next Texas Five Year Plan.

Whether it's auto dealerships, plastic bags, texting while driving or fracking within a city limit, this red state knows where it's bread is buttered. Unless it's a law out of Washington. Or has to do with political corruption in which case local is better.

It all seems rather self-serving to our proud Texas elected officials.
 
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The Texas police state. I try to visit ballparks when I travel, and often buy tickets from people outside the park. Not scalpers, just people trying to get rid of extra tickets usually at face value or less. The only place that I ever had a problem was a the ballpark in Houston. A police officer told me that he would arrest me if he saw me buying the ticket. I was told that ticket holders must sell such tickets to an approved vendor at a substantial loss.
 
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amanuensis63

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Noting that your puny 3 kW solar charger is a small fraction of Tesla's 120 kW charging station capability.

Ummm, noting that my "puny" 3kW solar unit has made it so that I haven't had to pay an electricity bill in 5 years despite taking care of the electricity needs for a 1200 sq foot home with 2 residents.

When one says a 3kW system I believe they mean capable of delivering 3kW per hour or some such. Charging a Tesla would be no problem. It might even utilize the standing credit I have from overproduction monthly (I always produce MORE electricity than we use).

Unless you work nights or have your solar charger at work then you might have trouble keeping your Tesla charged ... unless you have a spare set of batteries you can charge up while your car is off at work ... and then transfer that charge back to your Tesla later ... noting a significant loss of efficiency in doing so.

You should learn how modern PVC solar units operate today.

Not sure that puny 3 kW solar charger which only works in the middle of the day after your car has transported you to work ... is gonna keep that Tesla battery charged up very well. Just sayin ...

You have no earthly idea what you are talking about.

As I said I haven't paid an electricity bill in 5 years and consistently produce more electricity than I use.
 
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amanuensis63

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The Texas police state. I try to visit ballparks when I travel, and often buy tickets from people outside the park. Not scalpers, just people trying to get rid of extra tickets usually at face value or less. The only place that I ever had a problem was a the ballpark in Houston. A police officer told me that he would arrest me if he saw me buying the ticket. I was told that ticket holders must sell such tickets to an approved vendor at a substantial loss.

Scalping tickets is, indeed, somewhat different from being on OEM selling their goods.

But I can understand how one would be confused.
 
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Scalping tickets is, indeed, somewhat different from being on OEM selling their goods.

But I can understand how one would be confused.

Agreed there is a difference. However please reread my post. Scalping tickets usually means selling them above face value and making a profit. I'm talking about cases where a boy scout or church member didn't show up for the game and they just want to get rid of the ticket at or below face value. That isn't considered scalping where I live.
 
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NightHawkeye

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Ummm, noting that my "puny" 3kW solar unit has made it so that I haven't had to pay an electricity bill in 5 years despite taking care of the electricity needs for a 1200 sq foot home with 2 residents.

When one says a 3kW system I believe they mean capable of delivering 3kW per hour or some such. Charging a Tesla would be no problem. It might even utilize the standing credit I have from overproduction monthly (I always produce MORE electricity than we use).
Good for you. I can easily believe that. In good climates one can even live off-grid with minimal need for electricity. Electronics would consume just a fraction of what that 3 kW PV generator produces.
You should learn how modern PVC solar units operate today.
I've got a couple of units myself ... puny though they are compared to yours. ;)
You have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
LOL ... that's always the answer isn't it.

You have a 3 kW charger which you apparently feed to the electric grid. Good for you having a utility which supports that. If you intend to use a Tesla though for anything other than really short daily commutes, that's not going to be anywhere near enough capacity.

Expect to start seeing significant electric bill increases. Maybe if you quadrupled your generating capacity though you could change that.
As I said I haven't paid an electricity bill in 5 years and consistently produce more electricity than I use.
As I said, good for you on that. :thumbsup:

Still, you can expect to see significant electric bills for keeping your Tesla fed, assuming you travel anywhere near as much as most people do.
 
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amanuensis63

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Good for you. I can easily believe that. In good climates one can even live off-grid with minimal need for electricity. Electronics would consume just a fraction of what that 3 kW PV generator produces.

If you can believe it why did you make your snarky comments as if my system couldn't possible recharge a Tesla?

LOL ... that's always the answer isn't it.

When someone tries to act like 3kW solar PVC unit can't possible deal with a Tesla recharge yet has provided sufficient electricity to power an entire home for 5 years and consistently generated an excess I have to assume you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

You have a 3 kW charger which you apparently feed to the electric grid. Good for you having a utility which supports that.

"supports" that? Oh, you mean gets free electric power from me? Yeah, I'd say supports that.

Expect to start seeing significant electric bill increases. Maybe if you quadrupled your generating capacity though you could change that.

Orly? The Tesla S requires 42kW to recharge and at 11.55cents/kWh that works out to about $4.85 for a full charge. (SOURCE)

I imagine this would absolutely DEVASTATE my system! I'll have to take a second job!

Still, you can expect to see significant electric bills for keeping your Tesla fed, assuming you travel anywhere near as much as most people do.

Well gosh, at $4.85/full charge I'm thinking twice about buying a Tesla! Thanks Nighthawkeye! Your insightful analysis once again saves another librul from making a horrible decision!

$4.85. Gosh.
 
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NightHawkeye

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I imagine this would absolutely DEVASTATE my system! I'll have to take a second job!

Well gosh, at $4.85/full charge I'm thinking twice about buying a Tesla! Thanks Nighthawkeye! Your insightful analysis once again saves another librul from making a horrible decision!

$4.85. Gosh.
Glad I could help clarify for you. It certainly appears that you'll be paying to recharge your Tesla.
 
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amanuensis63

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Glad I could help clarify for you. It certainly appears that you'll be paying to recharge your Tesla.

That is not obvious. What it says is that if I had a regular electrical system I would pay $5 to charge my Tesla each day. I suspect I generate that much electricity daily easily in addition what I already generate.

If YOU were to take a hit of $5/day extra on your electric bill would that be a SIGNIFICANT increase in your power consumption?

Because it doesn't seem like it would be for me.
 
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NightHawkeye

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That is not obvious. What it says is that if I had a regular electrical system I would pay $5 to charge my Tesla each day. I suspect I generate that much electricity daily easily in addition what I already generate.

If YOU were to take a hit of $5/day extra on your electric bill would that be a SIGNIFICANT increase in your power consumption?

Because it doesn't seem like it would be for me.
You said you paid nothing for electricity. Let's see, $5.00 per day x 30 days = $150 ... admittedly slightly less in February. ;)

That's gonna be a big increase over paying nothing. Just for the record, it appears that half-charge for the Tesla requires about 60 kW-hours. Your system can produce something shy of 30 kW-hours on good days ... equivalent to providing 1/4 charge if all of it goes toward charging the Tesla ... but only on good days. No doubt, an industrious individual could reduce their power consumption and increase generating capacity to keep usage costs at zero. The cost of additional solar power after all will be small when compared against the Tesla's initial cost. :eek:
 
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Viren

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The cost of additional solar power after all will be small when compared against the Tesla's initial cost. :eek:

Yeah, even Elon agrees with that. If Tesla is able to reduce the cost of the car to $35,000 before incentives in the near future then the electric car and gasoline car will be on an even playing field. We'll see what happens.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Oh, I saw it, but as with most posts here I went by what the words said more than the smilie that could mean a range of things.

Generally speaking, if I'm serious about something, I don't post a ;) after it.

But seriously, I wouldn't buy one of these cars. They just don't appeal to me.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Generally speaking, if I'm serious about something, I don't post a ;) after it.

But seriously, I wouldn't buy one of these cars. They just don't appeal to me.

Cost prohibitions aside, it might appeal to you if you drove one and felt the power of the instant torque engaging. I almost gave my passenger whiplash when I pushed the pedal to the metal a little too much. lol ;)
 
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