Covenantal (The Jewish) "Heaven And Earth"

random person · Apr 12, 2015

THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS BY JOSEPHUS

3.6.4 (lines 122-126)

As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow. Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God. But the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only. But at the front, where the entrance was made, they placed pillars of gold, that stood on bases of brass, in number seven; but then they spread over the tabernacle veils of fine linen and purple, and blue, and scarlet colors, embroidered. The first veil was ten cubits every way, and this they spread over the pillars which parted the temple, and kept the most holy place concealed within; and this veil was that which made this part not visible to any. Now the whole temple was called The Holy Place: but that part which was within the four pillars, and to which none were admitted, was called The Holy of Holies. This veil was very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces; and there were interwoven into it all sorts of variety that might be an ornament, excepting the forms of animals.

3.7.7

Now here one may wonder at the ill-will which men bear to us, and which they profess to bear on account of our despising that Deity which they pretend to honor; for if any one do but consider the fabric of the tabernacle, and take a view of the garments of the high priest, and of those vessels which we make use of in our sacred ministration, he will find that our legislator was a divine man, and that we are unjustly reproached by others; for if any one do without prejudice, and with judgment, look upon these things, he will find they were every one made in way of imitation and representation of the universe. When Moses distinguished the tabernacle into three parts, and allowed two of them to the priests, as a place accessible and common, he denoted the land and the sea, these being of general access to all; but he set apart the third division for God, because heaven is inaccessible to men. And when he ordered twelve loaves to be set on the table, he denoted the year, as distinguished into so many months. By branching out the candlestick into seventy parts, he secretly intimated the Decani, or seventy divisions of the planets; and as to the seven lamps upon the candlesticks, they referred to the course of the planets, of which that is the number. The veils, too, which were composed of four things, they declared the four elements; for the fine linen was proper to signify the earth, because the flax grows out of the earth; the purple signified the sea, because that color is dyed by the blood of a sea shell-fish; the blue is fit to signify the air; and the scarlet will naturally be an indication of fire. Now the vestment of the high priest being made of linen, signified the earth; the blue denoted the sky, being like lightning in its pomegranates, and in the noise of the bells resembling thunder. And for the ephod, it showed that God had made the universe of four elements; and as for the gold interwoven, I suppose it related to the splendor by which all things are enlightened. He also appointed the breastplate to be placed in the middle of the ephod, to resemble the earth, for that has the very middle place of the world. And the girdle which encompassed the high priest round, signified the ocean, for that goes round about and includes the universe. Each of the sardonyxes declares to us the sun and the moon; those, I mean, that were in the nature of buttons on the high priest's shoulders. And for the twelve stones, whether we understand by them the months, or whether we understand the like number of the signs of that circle which the Greeks call the Zodiac, we shall not be mistaken in their meaning. And for the mitre, which was of a blue color, it seems to me to mean heaven; for how otherwise could the name of God be inscribed upon it? That it was also illustrated with a crown, and that of gold also, is because of that splendor with which God is pleased.

But I am the Lord thy God,
that divided the sea, whose waves roared:
the Lord of hosts is his name.

And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,
and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Isaiah 51:15-16

Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances (choq #2706) of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: if those ordinances (chuqqah #2708) depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 31:35-36

CHOQ #2706

Strong's Concordance
choq: something prescribed or owed, a statute
Original Word: חֹק
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: choq
Phonetic Spelling: (khoke)
Short Definition: statutes
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from chaqaq
Definition
something prescribed or owed, a statute
NASB Translation
allotment (5), boundaries (1), boundary (2), conditions (1), custom (1), decree (5), due (5), fixed order (1), limit (2), limits (1), measure (1), necessary food (1), ordinance (4), portion (3), portions (1), prescribed portion (1), rations (1), required amount (1), resolves (1), statute (9), statutes (79), thing...due (1), what is appointed (1).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
appointed, bound, commandment, convenient, custom, decreed, due, law,
From chaqaq; an enactment; hence, an appointment (of time, space, quantity, labor or usage) -- appointed, bound, commandment, convenient, custom, decree(-d), due, law, measure, X necessary, ordinance(- nary), portion, set time, statute, task.

CHOQ #2706

CHUQQAH #2708

Strong's Concordance
chuqqah: something prescribed, an enactment, statute
Original Word: חֻקָּה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: chuqqah
Phonetic Spelling: (khook-kaw')
Short Definition: statutes
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
fem. of choq
Definition
something prescribed, an enactment, statute
NASB Translation
appointed (1), customs (5), due (1), fixed order (1), fixed patterns (1), ordinance (5), ordinances (1), statute (25), statutes (62), statutory (2).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute
Feminine of choq, and meaning substantially the same -- appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.

CHUQQAH (#2708)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements (stoicheion #4747) shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements (stoicheion #4747) shall melt with fervent heat?

2 Peter 3:10,12

STOICHEION #4747

Strong's Concordance
stoicheion: one of a row, hence a letter (of the alphabet), by ext. the elements (of knowledge)
Original Word: στοιχεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stoicheion
Phonetic Spelling: (stoy-khi'-on)
Short Definition: a heavenly body, an element
Definition: (a) plur: the heavenly bodies, (b) a rudiment, an element, a rudimentary principle, an elementary rule.
HELPS Word-studies
4747 stoixeíon– properly, fundamentals, like with the basic components of a philosophy, structure, etc.; (figuratively) "first principles," like the basic fundamentals of Christianity.

[4747 (stoixeíon) refers to "the rudiments with which mankind . . . were indoctrinated (before the time of Christ), i.e. the elements of religious training or the ceremonial precepts common alike to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles" (J. Thayer).

The RSV however renders stoixeia as "elemental spirits," i.e. spiritual powers or "cosmic spirits" (DNTT, 2, 828). This views 4747 /stoixeíon ("elements") as ancient astral beings associated with the very beginning (make-up) of the earth.]

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from the same as stoicheó
Definition
one of a row, hence a letter (of the alphabet), by ext. the elements (of knowledge)
NASB Translation
elemental things (2), elementary principles (2), elementary* (1), elements (2), principles (1).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
element, principle, rudiment.
Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of stoicheo; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively) -- element, principle, rudiment.

STOICHEION (#4747)

They're practically identical words. The Greek word stoicheion appears in only 7 verses in the New Testament - Galatians 4:3,9; Colossians 2:8,20; Hebrews 5:12; 2 Peter 3:10,12.

I hope this post has edified your souls and opened up deeper meanings to God's word. God Bless!

Bible2 · Apr 13, 2015

random person said in post 1:

Isaiah 51:15-16

In Isaiah 51:16, the original Hebrew word (yacad: H3245) translated as "lay the foundations of" can be translated simply as "establish" (Proverbs 3:19), so that Isaiah 51:16 can refer to God's future establishment of a literal new heaven (i.e. a new 1st heaven/atmosphere for the earth) and a literal new earth (i.e. a new surface for the earth), like in Isaiah 65:17-25, Isaiah 66:22-24, and Revelation 21:1-8. And Isaiah 51:16c can refer to the literal city of New Zion/New Jerusalem, the only one which will have everlasting joy and holiness (Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 52:1, Revelation 21:2-8).

New Jerusalem is a literal city, 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), with literal pearly gates and literal streets of gold (Revelation 21:21). It is God the Father's house in the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b,4, Revelation 2:7b, Revelation 22:2,14), in which house Jesus left to prepare a place for the church (John 14:2). All those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, have figuratively come to New Jerusalem by coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), and which only the church comes under by believing in Jesus' New Covenant death on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the very heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The church looks for Jesus' return from heaven (Philippians 3:20), and the setting up of his physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). New Jerusalem won't descend from the 3rd heaven to the earth until after a new earth (a new surface of the earth) has been created (Revelation 21:1-4), sometime after the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15). The church will physically live and reign in New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5). The Father and Jesus themselves will be the only temple in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:22).

Bible2 · Apr 13, 2015

random person said in post 1:

The Greek word stoicheion appears in only 7 verses in the New Testament - Galatians 4:3,9; Colossians 2:8,20; Hebrews 5:12; 2 Peter 3:10,12.

Regarding 2 Peter 3:10,12, note that just as the heaven and earth which "were of old" (2 Peter 3:5-6) were the literal 1st "heaven" (the sky/atmosphere, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20) and the literal "earth" (the dry land) which God created in Genesis 1:7-10, and which "perished" in Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6, Genesis 6:13-21), so the heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which will perish in our future by fire instead of flood (2 Peter 3:7-12), are the earth's present atmosphere and surface. And so the new heaven and earth, which the church is still waiting for (2 Peter 3:13) -- because the new heaven and earth (Revelation 21:1) won't be made until after the never-fulfilled events of Revelation chapters 6 to 20 -- will be a new atmosphere and surface for the earth.

That is, the "old" heaven and earth perished at the time of Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6), which was over 1,000 years before the Old Covenant Mosaic law was established in Exodus. The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments was abolished the moment Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). Matthew 5:18 refers to the literal heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which will be literally burned up in our future (2 Peter 3:7-12).

Matthew 5:18 didn't mean that heaven and earth had to pass away before the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments could be abolished, but that Jesus had to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah's/the Christ's first coming (Luke 24:44-46; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53) before he could abolish the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (for both Jews and Gentiles, of all times) on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19).

So the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 are physical, just as the heaven and earth in 2 Peter 3:10,12 are physical. 2 Peter 3:10,12 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the New Testament where the Greek word "stoicheion" (G4747) is used to refer to physical elements, just as, for example, Revelation 6:6 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the New Testament where the Greek word "choinix" (G5518) is used at all.

Bible2 · Apr 13, 2015

random person quoted Josephus in post 1:

However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world . . .

The parts of the Old Covenant Mosaic tabernacle could have foreshadowed YHWH's New Covenant way of salvation (Jeremiah 31:31-34): The altar for animal sacrifices (Exodus 27:1, Exodus 29:12-13) could have foreshadowed Jesus Christ's New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28). The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have foreshadowed Christian water-baptism (Acts 22:16). The menorah with its flames (Exodus 25:31,37) could have foreshadowed Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:3-4). The table with its shewbread (Exodus 25:23,30) could have foreshadowed Communion (1 Corinthians 11:26). The altar for incense (Exodus 30:1) could have foreshadowed Christian prayer (cf. Revelation 8:4). The ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:10, Numbers 10:33) with its mercy seat (Exodus 25:21) could have foreshadowed the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) and Christians obtaining its mercy (Hebrews 4:16), unto eternal life (Jude 1:21).

At the same time, the tabernacle could have been a figurative model of the earth and its 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The tabernacle's courtyard could have represented the earth and its atmosphere, the 1st heaven (Genesis 1:20b). The tabernacle's holy place could have represented the 2nd heaven, outer space (Deuteronomy 4:19). And the tabernacle's most holy place could have represented the 3rd heaven spiritual realm (2 Corinthians 12:2b). In the tabernacle's courtyard, the altar (Exodus 27:1) could have represented the earth's land areas. The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have represented the sea (cf. also "the sea" part of the first temple: 1 Kings 7:23). And the veil between the courtyard and the holy place (Exodus 26:36) could have represented the atmosphere. The 5 pillars which held up that veil (Exodus 26:37) could have represented the 5 most powerful (now fallen) angelic princes who (before they were fallen) were assigned by God to rule the earth from its atmosphere/sky/air (Ephesians 6:12). The central of these 5 pillars could have represented Lucifer (Satan), "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), while the other 4 pillars could have represented 4 of his most powerful lieutenants.

In the tabernacle's holy place, the 7 lights (Exodus 25:37) could have represented the 7 (moving) lights in outer space visible to the naked eye from the viewpoint of earth: the sun, the moon, the first planet from the sun, the 2nd planet, the 4th planet, the 5th planet, and the 6th planet. The 12 loaves (Leviticus 24:5-6) could have represented the 12 constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job 38:32). At the same time, the 7 lights (both in the tabernacle and in the sky) could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5b).

In the tabernacle's most holy place, the veil between the holy place and most holy place (Exodus 26:33b) could have represented the line between outer space (space-time throughout the universe) and the earth's 3rd heaven spiritual realm. The 4 pillars which held up that veil (Exodus 26:32) could have represented the 4 dimensions of space-time, the 4 fundamental forces of space-time (gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force), and the 4 possible states of matter in space-time (solid, liquid, gas, plasma), so that going past the 4 pillars could have represented going beyond space-time and into the earth's 3rd heaven spiritual realm. At the same time, all the different sets of 4 things referred to above could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's 4 beasts/seraphims (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:2-3).

The vertical boards which formed the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place included 6 boards (Exodus 26:22) of a regular width of 1.5 cubits (Exodus 26:16) plus 2 corner boards (Exodus 26:23) which each had to have been 1/3 the regular width, so that the width of the back wall would be 10 cubits, equal to the 10-cubit height of the boards (Exodus 26:16), and equal to the 10-cubit length of the most holy place (this length being based on the tabernacle's top-covering curtains in Exodus 26:1-13 having been most likely coupled by the gold taches at the line between the holy place and most holy place). I.e., in order for the most holy place to have been a perfect cube, exactly 10 cubits (15 feet) on a side (similar to how the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem is a perfect cube, some 1,500 miles on a side: Revelation 21:16), the back wall of the tabernacle had to have been formed by the equivalent of 6.66 regular-width boards.

That the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place had, in effect, the number 6.66 connected with it could have represented the Antichrist's future rebellion. For the gematrial number of his personal name is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). And he could break through the back wall of the 3rd Jewish temple (which will be built), and he could then enter in that back way when he sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). He could take great delight in entering the temple's most holy place by this forced, "back way", for it would show his utter rejection of YHWH's way to eternal life, pictured by the tabernacle.

random person · Apr 13, 2015

Bible2 said:
In Isaiah 51:16, the original Hebrew word (yacad: H3245) translated as "lay the foundations of" can be translated simply as "establish" (Proverbs 3:19), so that Isaiah 51:16 can refer to God's future establishment of a literal new heaven (i.e. a new 1st heaven/atmosphere for the earth) and a literal new earth (i.e. a new surface for the earth), like in Isaiah 65:17-25, Isaiah 66:22-24, and Revelation 21:1-8. And Isaiah 51:16c can refer to the literal city of New Zion/New Jerusalem, the only one which will have everlasting joy and holiness (Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 52:1, Revelation 21:2-8).

New Jerusalem is a literal city, 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), with literal pearly gates and literal streets of gold (Revelation 21:21). It is God the Father's house in the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b,4, Revelation 2:7b, Revelation 22:2,14), in which house Jesus left to prepare a place for the church (John 14:2). All those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, have figuratively come to New Jerusalem by coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), and which only the church comes under by believing in Jesus' New Covenant death on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the very heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The church looks for Jesus' return from heaven (Philippians 3:20), and the setting up of his physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). New Jerusalem won't descend from the 3rd heaven to the earth until after a new earth (a new surface of the earth) has been created (Revelation 21:1-4), sometime after the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15). The church will physically live and reign in New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5). The Father and Jesus themselves will be the only temple in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:22).

Incorrect, he divided the seas in these passages is speaking about the parting of the Red Sea, that this is speaking of the inauguration of the Mosaic Covenant (Covenantal "Heaven" & "Earth"). This is not literal at all but entirely covenantal.

And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

Why does Jesus say these two statements yet proceeds also to predict the temple's destruction? Afterall without an active temple and an active priesthood, the law will utterly fail.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16:16-17

When is all fulfilled, you may ask?

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Daniel 12:7

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. Luke 21:22, 32-33

It is the fulfillment of destruction of Jerusalem, of the Covenantal "Heaven" And "Earth", that is destruction of the 2nd Temple (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9) the absolute end of the Law, and marks all has been fulfilled as spoken in the above verses of Daniel and Luke. Till heaven and earth (2nd Temple) pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And the Spirit-inspired writers further elaborate on the destruction of the Law:

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

random person · Apr 13, 2015

Bible2 said:
Regarding 2 Peter 3:10,12, note that just as the heaven and earth which "were of old" (2 Peter 3:5-6) were the literal 1st "heaven" (the sky/atmosphere, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20) and the literal "earth" (the dry land) which God created in Genesis 1:7-10, and which "perished" in Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6, Genesis 6:13-21), so the heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which will perish in our future by fire instead of flood (2 Peter 3:7-12), are the earth's present atmosphere and surface. And so the new heaven and earth, which the church is still waiting for (2 Peter 3:13) -- because the new heaven and earth (Revelation 21:1) won't be made until after the never-fulfilled events of Revelation chapters 6 to 20 -- will be a new atmosphere and surface for the earth.

That is, the "old" heaven and earth perished at the time of Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6), which was over 1,000 years before the Old Covenant Mosaic law was established in Exodus. The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments was abolished the moment Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). Matthew 5:18 refers to the literal heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which will be literally burned up in our future (2 Peter 3:7-12).

Matthew 5:18 didn't mean that heaven and earth had to pass away before the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments could be abolished, but that Jesus had to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah's/the Christ's first coming (Luke 24:44-46; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53) before he could abolish the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (for both Jews and Gentiles, of all times) on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19).

So the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 are physical, just as the heaven and earth in 2 Peter 3:10,12 are physical. 2 Peter 3:10,12 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the New Testament where the Greek word "stoicheion" (G4747) is used to refer to physical elements, just as, for example, Revelation 6:6 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the New Testament where the Greek word "choinix" (G5518) is used at all.

But the heavens and the earth was not destroyed by the flood, just all living things on it.

Or do you call God a liar?

neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. Genesis 8:21

God promised not to smite any more every thing living? Note he didn't promise not to flood the earth anymore (while leaving open options for a fiery global destruction), but that he promised not to smite any more every thing living. That includes both a global flood and a global conflageration, Bible2.

Bible2 · Apr 14, 2015

random person said in post 5:

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Daniel 12:7

Daniel 12:7b means that at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will come to a church which has been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed to make war against the church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the church that the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' 2nd coming will immediately occur, at which time he will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). At his 2nd coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43), for he/God won't share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

random person said in post 5:

It is the fulfillment of destruction of Jerusalem, of the Covenantal "Heaven" And "Earth", that is destruction of the 2nd Temple (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9) . . .

Hebrews 8:13 means that when the prophet Jeremiah in the 6th century BC prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34 about the 1st century AD making of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6), which wouldn't be according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32, Romans 7:6), Jeremiah's prophecy, as soon as it was made, had immediately made the letter of the Mosaic-law covenant "old" and headed inexorably toward a future extinction (Hebrews 7:18-19). This extinction occurred not in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

random person · Apr 14, 2015

More scriptural evidence of a covenantal "heaven and earth" in the OP.

And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Genesis 8:21

Praise him, you highest heavens,
and you waters above the heavens!
Let them praise the name of the Lord!
For he commanded and they were created.
And he established them forever and ever;
he gave a decree, and it shall not pass away.

Psalm 148:4-6

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Psalm 104:5

And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psalm 78:69

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 1:4

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 9:7

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Ephesians 3:21

Bible2 · Apr 15, 2015

random person said in post 8:

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 9:7

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21), and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

For just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Danoh · Apr 15, 2015

random person said:
But I am the Lord thy God,
that divided the sea, whose waves roared:
the Lord of hosts is his name.

And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,
and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Isaiah 51:15-16

Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances (chuqqah #2708) of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: if those ordinance(chuqqah #2708) depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 31:35-36

Compare the Hebrew word, CHUQQAH (#2708)

With the Greek word, STOICHEION (#4747)

They're practically identical words. The Greek word stoicheion appears in only 7 verses in the New Testament - Galatians 4:3,9; Colossians 2:8,20; Hebrews 5:12; 2 Peter 3:10,12.

THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS BY JOSEPHUS

3.6.4 (lines 122-126)

As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow. Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God. But the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only. But at the front, where the entrance was made, they placed pillars of gold, that stood on bases of brass, in number seven; but then they spread over the tabernacle veils of fine linen and purple, and blue, and scarlet colors, embroidered. The first veil was ten cubits every way, and this they spread over the pillars which parted the temple, and kept the most holy place concealed within; and this veil was that which made this part not visible to any. Now the whole temple was called The Holy Place: but that part which was within the four pillars, and to which none were admitted, was called The Holy of Holies. This veil was very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces; and there were interwoven into it all sorts of variety that might be an ornament, excepting the forms of animals.

3.7.7

Now here one may wonder at the ill-will which men bear to us, and which they profess to bear on account of our despising that Deity which they pretend to honor; for if any one do but consider the fabric of the tabernacle, and take a view of the garments of the high priest, and of those vessels which we make use of in our sacred ministration, he will find that our legislator was a divine man, and that we are unjustly reproached by others; for if any one do without prejudice, and with judgment, look upon these things, he will find they were every one made in way of imitation and representation of the universe. When Moses distinguished the tabernacle into three parts, and allowed two of them to the priests, as a place accessible and common, he denoted the land and the sea, these being of general access to all; but he set apart the third division for God, because heaven is inaccessible to men. And when he ordered twelve loaves to be set on the table, he denoted the year, as distinguished into so many months. By branching out the candlestick into seventy parts, he secretly intimated the Decani, or seventy divisions of the planets; and as to the seven lamps upon the candlesticks, they referred to the course of the planets, of which that is the number. The veils, too, which were composed of four things, they declared the four elements; for the fine linen was proper to signify the earth, because the flax grows out of the earth; the purple signified the sea, because that color is dyed by the blood of a sea shell-fish; the blue is fit to signify the air; and the scarlet will naturally be an indication of fire. Now the vestment of the high priest being made of linen, signified the earth; the blue denoted the sky, being like lightning in its pomegranates, and in the noise of the bells resembling thunder. And for the ephod, it showed that God had made the universe of four elements; and as for the gold interwoven, I suppose it related to the splendor by which all things are enlightened. He also appointed the breastplate to be placed in the middle of the ephod, to resemble the earth, for that has the very middle place of the world. And the girdle which encompassed the high priest round, signified the ocean, for that goes round about and includes the universe. Each of the sardonyxes declares to us the sun and the moon; those, I mean, that were in the nature of buttons on the high priest's shoulders. And for the twelve stones, whether we understand by them the months, or whether we understand the like number of the signs of that circle which the Greeks call the Zodiac, we shall not be mistaken in their meaning. And for the mitre, which was of a blue color, it seems to me to mean heaven; for how otherwise could the name of God be inscribed upon it? That it was also illustrated with a crown, and that of gold also, is because of that splendor with which God is pleased. Let this explication suffice at present, since the course of my narration will often, and on many occasions, afford me the opportunity of enlarging upon the virtue of our legislator.

I hope this post has edified your souls and opened up deeper meanings to God's word. God Bless!

Leave to your school to rest on the obvious uncertainty of an "it seems to me..."

:doh:

random person · Apr 15, 2015

Danoh said:
Leave to your school to rest on the obvious uncertainty of an "it seems to me..."

Keep rebuilding what Christ tore down, Danoh....

:doh:

mxyzpt1k · Apr 16, 2015

random person said:
But I am the Lord thy God,
that divided the sea, whose waves roared:
the Lord of hosts is his name.

And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,
and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Isaiah 51:15-16

Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances (chuqqah #2708) of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: if those ordinance(chuqqah #2708) depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 31:35-36

Compare the Hebrew word, CHUQQAH (#2708)

With the Greek word, STOICHEION (#4747)

They're practically identical words. The Greek word stoicheion appears in only 7 verses in the New Testament - Galatians 4:3,9; Colossians 2:8,20; Hebrews 5:12; 2 Peter 3:10,12.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MRRMgeOZqs

(The Totality of statement that appears to be made is the incomplete resurrection of the Antichrist into a new resurrected body ... remember the Antichrist must be slain for Star Wormwood, and the "Temple Stones" of the Great Tribulation are apart of Star Wormwood ... an incomplete transmutation sounds like this is whats in view ... that is Moses the son of god made of the elements, as opposed to Moses the son of god made of the cosmos)

Hoppi Prophecy Correspondance

sea, whose waves roared
1. This is the First Sign We are told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana men who 7 took the land that was not theirs. And men who struck their enemies with thunder.
I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand
2. This is the Second Sign Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices.
I may plant the heavens and lay the foundations of the earth
4. This is the Fourth Sign The land will be crossed by snakes of iron.

The Above concerns the incomplete evolution of the Antichrist, which will be on full display during the Great Tribulation, I believe this is what you are referring to. This covers only the first 4 levels of the hoppi prophecy

random person said:
THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS BY JOSEPHUS
3.7.7 Excerpt
Now here one may wonder at the ill-will which men bear to us, and which they profess to bear on account of our despising that Deity which they pretend to honor; for if any one do but consider the fabric of the tabernacle, and take a view of the garments of the high priest, and of those vessels which we make use of in our sacred ministration, he will find that our legislator was a divine man

Moses is revealed to be a divine man as the universe changes so does Moses. The fabric of space is torn open in some way, and the body of Moses undergoes an evolution. (the chemical treatments are mostly worn off, the dosage must be increased ... the electrical treatments are beginning to wear off ... the dosage must once again be increased ... this is a form of rape, this activities have no value, but let this continue to further restrain their sin but place no value in it)

random person · Apr 21, 2015

Bump - I reformated the OP, please check it out!

Covenantal (The Jewish) "Heaven And Earth"

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

Bible2

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Bible2

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1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

Bible2

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1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

Bible2

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1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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