Is there a Mormon here who can explain this to me?

Rescued One

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What does this mean?

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

(Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! (not spirit world?)
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792-1872
Music: Scottish folk song
 
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TheBarrd

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So, wait a minute, here.
Are we to understand that Joseph Smith will sit in judgment along with Jesus Christ?
And not only ol' Joe...but all the "prophets" since?

In other words, everyone who is not Mormon is doomed, right?

At least mainstream Christianity allows for all believers to share in God's promises...seems to me the LDS are a mite selfish with them...
 
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TheBarrd

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Nope.

Just the usual scare tactics being employed to spook you in lieu of any sort of substantive argument.

Is there a "substantive argument" that places Joseph Smith or any of the other prophets "behind the bar" at the final judgment? I was pretty sure it was Jesus Who would do the judging...all by Himself...with no help from any other personage, Divine or otherwise...
 
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Ran77

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Matt. 12: 41-42

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.


Matt. 19: 28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


Luke 11: 19

And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore shall they be your judges.


1 Corinthians 6: 2-3

2 .Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3. Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?



:)
 
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RevelationTestament

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You forgot Mat 22:30

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Do you believe this passage?
Yep. In the resurrection there are no more works. We cannot receive any increase. However, in the judgment some may be judged as elohim.
 
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bbbbbbb

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What does this mean?

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

(Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! (not spirit world?)
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792-1872
Music: Scottish folk song

Well, we all know that this is not in the Four Standard Works and was just the meandering uninspired thoughts of Mr. Phelps and that no Mormon has ever believed this to be in the least bit true nor is it ever sung or has been sung. It just accidentally found its way into the LDS hymnal, probably planted by some Apostate Christians to embarrass the LDS. ;)
 
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Ran77

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Matt. 12: 41-42

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.


Matt. 19: 28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


Luke 11: 19

And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore shall they be your judges.


1 Corinthians 6: 2-3

2 .Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3. Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


I'm noticing a pronounced tendency for our critics to not want to deal with the Bible verses that address the topics being discussed. This is the third, or fourth, thread where the conversation suddenly dried up once I posted them.


:o
 
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EarlyChristianresearcher

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What does this mean?

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

(Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! (not spirit world?)
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792-1872
Music: Scottish folk song

Because Mormons testify that Mormonism, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day SAINTS, is a restoration of Christ's church & teachings, why can't we blame Christians for Mormons' beliefs in being Godmakers?

Like the song about the Prophet Joseph Smith "mingling with Gods," and even becoming a god in the after life. Historic Christianity is filled with songs, rituals, & art works of SAINTS, being deified, becoming a god or goddess, Enthroned with other gods & goddesses, through temple type liturgical rites, & masses. Defication is the ultimate salvation, the ultimate of being saved! The ultimate martyrs rewards for the early Christian martyrs! The reasons why many were willing to die for the cause of Christ, or others to endure monastic ascents towards "Christian moral perfection."

When Christians get to heaven, are they going to die all over again? If they live forever, are they going to stop learning? If you learn new things forever. Are you going to eventually be taught or learn how the universe was made? If you inherit God's powers, glory, pass through a coronation ceremony, are anointed, invested, crowned, enthroned, & seen sitting next to the Godhead, as the Santa Maria is often depicted, and deified. What will you be doing with your eternal time? Sitting on some throne forever & ever, doing nothing? Not using your powers & godhood, or goddesshood to do new things, be a co-creator with others deified like you? These are questions not only for Christians, but for every religion that has one form of deification, theosis, divinisation doctrines or another. Just like it's restored in Mormonism, as exaltation, perfection, & yes, becoming divine, & enthroned with other Divine Parents, in an endless universe, where there is plenty of space & materials out there to create new worlds & start on other worlds, what was started on this world. Its an endless cycle, & explains how inhabited worlds came into being & their purposes in being seeded with all types of life forms, including Divine Parents spirits sons & daughters being given a chance to experience & learn new life experiences in a physical body. Another big part of this whole drama is how God our Father & his Son Jesus Christ, & the Holy Ghost, would rather we become like them, than they would that we become like the devil & his fallen angels. So its Deification v. Demonification. That's the other part of deification that many Christians don't get into, but the early Christians did. It's called the two extremes, the two ways, the left hand path & the right hand path. Thus, Righteousness, doing what's right, being on Christ's right hand, in judgment settings. Satanists-Devil-worshippers, that reverse Christians' symbols, color symbolism, rituals, prayers backwards, they know of Christians' deification because they have reversed it to demonification. So instead of climbing up the ladder toward "Christian moral perfection," where each rung represents a Christ like trait, & where the crown, or Christ, or the right hand of God greets those at the top. Plus, with different types of hand & wrist grasping, to lift the enduring ascender up to be with the other gods & goddesses thus having reach "Christian moral perfection." In Satanism it's completely reversed into an occultic ascent which is actually a descent down further into developing traits of the devil & demons. Just read some of the satanic lyrics of the songs of satanic music of the 1970s to present. On the complete opposite extreme, Christian sing about doing good, developing love, etc. Plus, in liturgical dramas, mystery plays, masses, those who ascend out of hades, limbo, purgatory, the pit, are "The Grateful Dead," singing praises to Christ for harrowing them from hell, & resurrecting them. In iconography of the Anastasis, the moment that Adam clasps Christ's hand or wrist, or Christ's grasps Adam's, he being the first to be lifted up by Christ in resurrection; that is the moment of Adam's deification = becoming a god. Many follow afterwards, thus they come forth singing, with up raised hands, as "The Grateful Dead." They are naked when they ascend, for like in rituals, they are to be clothed in ascension robes. The white robes often worn, especially during Easter Sundays, became known as Whitesunday, or Whitsuntide, or Whitsunday. Symbolic of their souls being cleansed & made spotless, pure = whitened, symbolic of having no stains of sins on their garments, because Christ's blood washed away all sins. Symbolic of also that they are resurrected & have put on Christ, setting aside the filthy rags of their former life. Also meaning that they were clothed in their own glorified ressurrected body, like unto Christ's. The Satanists have reversed this to wearing black robes, & Blacksunday or Black Sabbath. Thus, it's Deification vrs Demonification.

Bibilography:

Alice K. Turner, 1993, The History of Hell. Anna D. Kartsonis, Anastasis, The Making of An Image. Carl A. Raschke, Painted Black. Carol Zaleski, Otherworld Journeys, Chandler Rathfon Post, A History of Spanish Painting. Clifford Davidson, Editor, The Iconography of Heaven, Early Drama, Art, and Music, Monograph Series, 21. Colleen McDannell and Bernhard Lang, Heaven: A History. David Knowles, 1969, Christian Monasticism. Dom Hubert Van Zeller, The Holy Rule. Geoffrey R. King, The Forty Days. Gilda Berger, Easter And Other Spring Holidays. Henry Ansgar Kelly, The Devil at baptism: Ritual, Theology, and Drama, (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 1985). Dr. Huge Nibley, Mormonism and Early Christianity, (1987). J. Eugene Seaich: Ancient Texts & Mormonism, (Murray, Utah: Sounds of Zion, 1983). Jeanne Villette, La Resurrection Du Christ, Dans L'Art Chretien Du IIe Au VIIe Siecle. Jeffrey Burton Russell, Satan, The Early Christian Tradition, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1981). Lucifer, The Devil In the Middle Age, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1984). The Prince of Darkness, Radical Evil and the Power of Good in History, (Ithaca, New York: Cornell University Press, 1988). John P. Lundy, Monumental Christianity, Or the Art and Symbolism of the Primitive Church, (New York: J. W. Bouton, 1875 & 1882). John Rupert Martin, The Illustration Of The Heavenly Ladder of John Climacus, (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1954). Etc.
 
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Ran77

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Because Mormons testify that Mormonism, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day SAINTS, is a restoration of Christ's church & teachings, why can't we blame Christians for Mormons' beliefs in being Godmakers?

Like the song about the Prophet Joseph Smith "mingling with Gods," and even becoming a god in the after life. Historic Christianity is filled with songs, rituals, & art works of SAINTS, being deified, becoming a god or goddess, Enthroned with other gods & goddesses, through temple type liturgical rites, & masses. Defication is the ultimate salvation, the ultimate of being saved! The ultimate martyrs rewards for the early Christian martyrs! The reasons why many were willing to die for the cause of Christ, or others to endure monastic ascents towards "Christian moral perfection."

When Christians get to heaven, are they going to die all over again? If they live forever, are they going to stop learning? If you learn new things forever. Are you going to eventually be taught or learn how the universe was made? If you inherit God's powers, glory, pass through a coronation ceremony, are anointed, invested, crowned, enthroned, & seen sitting next to the Godhead, as the Santa Maria is often depicted, and deified. What will you be doing with your eternal time? Sitting on some throne forever & ever, doing nothing? Not using your powers & godhood, or goddesshood to do new things, be a co-creator with others deified like you? These are questions not only for Christians, but for every religion that has one form of deification, theosis, divinisation doctrines or another. Just like it's restored in Mormonism, as exaltation, perfection, & yes, becoming divine, & enthroned with other Divine Parents, in an endless universe, where there is plenty of space & materials out there to create new worlds & start on other worlds, what was started on this world. Its an endless cycle, & explains how inhabited worlds came into being & their purposes in being seeded with all types of life forms, including Divine Parents spirits sons & daughters being given a chance to experience & learn new life experiences in a physical body. Another big part of this whole drama is how God our Father & his Son Jesus Christ, & the Holy Ghost, would rather we become like them, than they would that we become like the devil & his fallen angels. So its Deification v. Demonification. That's the other part of deification that many Christians don't get into, but the early Christians did. It's called the two extremes, the two ways, the left hand path & the right hand path. Thus, Righteousness, doing what's right, being on Christ's right hand, in judgment settings. Satanists-Devil-worshippers, that reverse Christians' symbols, color symbolism, rituals, prayers backwards, they know of Christians' deification because they have reversed it to demonification. So instead of climbing up the ladder toward "Christian moral perfection," where each rung represents a Christ like trait, & where the crown, or Christ, or the right hand of God greets those at the top. Plus, with different types of hand & wrist grasping, to lift the enduring ascender up to be with the other gods & goddesses thus having reach "Christian moral perfection." In Satanism it's completely reversed into an occultic ascent which is actually a descent down further into developing traits of the devil & demons. Just read some of the satanic lyrics of the songs of satanic music of the 1970s to present. On the complete opposite extreme, Christian sing about doing good, developing love, etc. Plus, in liturgical dramas, mystery plays, masses, those who ascend out of hades, limbo, purgatory, the pit, are "The Grateful Dead," singing praises to Christ for harrowing them from hell, & resurrecting them. In iconography of the Anastasis, the moment that Adam clasps Christ's hand or wrist, or Christ's grasps Adam's, he being the first to be lifted up by Christ in resurrection; that is the moment of Adam's deification = becoming a god. Many follow afterwards, thus they come forth singing, with up raised hands, as "The Grateful Dead." They are naked when they ascend, for like in rituals, they are to be clothed in ascension robes. The white robes often worn, especially during Easter Sundays, became known as Whitesunday, or Whitsuntide, or Whitsunday. Symbolic of their souls being cleansed & made spotless, pure = whitened, symbolic of having no stains of sins on their garments, because Christ's blood washed away all sins. Symbolic of also that they are resurrected & have put on Christ, setting aside the filthy rags of their former life. Also meaning that they were clothed in their own glorified ressurrected body, like unto Christ's. The Satanists have reversed this to wearing black robes, & Blacksunday or Black Sabbath. Thus, it's Deification vrs Demonification.

Bibilography:

Alice K. Turner, 1993, The History of Hell. Anna D. Kartsonis, Anastasis, The Making of An Image. Carl A. Raschke, Painted Black. Carol Zaleski, Otherworld Journeys, Chandler Rathfon Post, A History of Spanish Painting. Clifford Davidson, Editor, The Iconography of Heaven, Early Drama, Art, and Music, Monograph Series, 21. Colleen McDannell and Bernhard Lang, Heaven: A History. David Knowles, 1969, Christian Monasticism. Dom Hubert Van Zeller, The Holy Rule. Geoffrey R. King, The Forty Days. Gilda Berger, Easter And Other Spring Holidays. Henry Ansgar Kelly, The Devil at baptism: Ritual, Theology, and Drama, (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 1985). Dr. Huge Nibley, Mormonism and Early Christianity, (1987). J. Eugene Seaich: Ancient Texts & Mormonism, (Murray, Utah: Sounds of Zion, 1983). Jeanne Villette, La Resurrection Du Christ, Dans L'Art Chretien Du IIe Au VIIe Siecle. Jeffrey Burton Russell, Satan, The Early Christian Tradition, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1981). Lucifer, The Devil In the Middle Age, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1984). The Prince of Darkness, Radical Evil and the Power of Good in History, (Ithaca, New York: Cornell University Press, 1988). John P. Lundy, Monumental Christianity, Or the Art and Symbolism of the Primitive Church, (New York: J. W. Bouton, 1875 & 1882). John Rupert Martin, The Illustration Of The Heavenly Ladder of John Climacus, (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1954). Etc.

Interesting. Thanks for posting.


:)
 
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EarlyChristianresearcher

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Christians to blame for Mormons beliefs in being Godmakers? Part 2.

The art works of deification. Scroll down to the article: Passover, Easter & Garment Types of Deification in the Resurrection (Easter Sunday, 4-8-2012).

See the series, bebates, & radio archived discussions between Mormons & Christians: See: Discussions on Deification on You Tube.
Walter Lowrie, Art In The Early Church, (Washington Square, New York, New York: Pantheon Books, 1947). W. H. C. Frend, Martyrdom & Persecution In The Early Church, (Garden City, New York: Anchor Books Doubleday & Company, 1967). The Ante-Nicene Fathers = TANF. A set of volumes on the writings of the early Christians before the Nicene Creed era of A.D. 325. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: T & T Clark, Edinburgh, W. M. B. Eerdmans Publishing, reprinted October 1989), nine volumes. The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, (Grand Rapids, Michigan: W. M. B. Eerdmans, reprinted April 1986), fourteen volumes. Hallenfahrt Christis, in Richard Paul Wulker, Bibliothek der Angelsachsischen Poesie, (Leipzig: Wigands, 1897), three volumes. Himmel Hölle Fegefeuer, Das Jenseits im Mittelalter, 1994, Schweizerisches Landesmuseum, Zurich, Wilhelm Fink Verlag, Munchen. The Renaissance, Six Essays Wallace K. Ferguson, Robert S. Lopez, George Sarton, Roland H. Bainton, Leicester Bradner, Erwin Panofsky, (New York: Harper and Row, Harper Torchbooks, 1962, The Academy Library, CR 1953, by The Metropolitan Museum of Art). Deification, Theosis, Divinisation, Christian moral Perfection. John Climacus Ladders of the Divine Ascent towards Christian moral perfection, deification, being greeted at the top of the ladder with different types of hand & wrist grasps, as seen in art. Phil's talk, Early Church Fathers on Deification. Phil: St. Paul - Patristic Doctrine - Deification See also: The Great Debate on the Godhead, Deification & More. Van Hale, Bill Forest (LDS Apologists), vs Kurt Van Gordan & other Christians. Journey of the Soul (Art works & rituals of deification). First Godmakers [Before Mormons] were early Christians, part 1. Part 2. LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie, 7 Deadly Heresies. LDS Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball, Our Great Potenial. Garments of deification in historic Christianity, art works, etc.: Black & White Garment Color Symbolism in Religions. John Lawrence Mosheim, D.D., An Ecclesiastical History, (London: 1819, Translated by Archibald Maclaine), 6 volumes. Thomas Armitage, D.D., LL.D., A History Of The Baptists, (New York: Bryah, Taylor, & Chicago: Morningside, 1887). Schroll, Sister M. Alfred, Benedictine Monasticism, as reflected in the Warnefrid-Hildemar commentaries on the Holy Rule, (New York, Columbia University Press, 1941). Robert Hughes, Heaven and Hell in Western Art, (New York: Stein and Day/Pub., 1968). Former Atheist, now Rev. Howard Storm's Near Death Experience, he learned that our divine potenial is to become co-creators with God throughout the universe that is filled with all kinds of life forms of every imaginable & unimaginable types on different school type world, where spirits go to learn earth like experiences in physical bodies. He also was taken down into the darkness by demonic beings that attacked him. Only through prayer and calling upon Jesus for help was he rescued out of the darkness. Just like in endless artworks of Christ's descent into hell, hades, limbo, purgatory, note the hand & wrist grasping of those being resurrected, harrowed from hell. Christ as Judge, the two ways, Last Judgment. See more art works on blog, Restored Apologetics. Pater Cramer, Baptism and change in the early Middle Ages, c. 200-c. 1150, (Cambridge, England; New York, New York, USA: Cambridge University Press, 1993). E. A. Wallis Budge, Coptic Martyrdoms, (London, England: British Museum, 1914), 6 vols. Budge, Coptic Apocrypha in the Dialect of Upper Egypt, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1913), 6 vols.
Donald W. Parry, (Editor), Temples Of The Ancient World, Ritual and Symbolism, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Desert Book Company, 1994, & Provo, Utah: Foundation For Ancient Research and Mormon Studies). Thorpe, Upon Them Hath The Light Shined. Craig Harbison, The Last Judgment in Sixteenth Century Northern Europe, (New York, U.S.A., and London, England: Garland Pub. Inc., 1976). LDS Prophet on enough space out there for new gods & goddess, Oct. 1975 General Conference talk, The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood. Dr. George G. Ritchie, Return from Tomorrow, as a Christian, he learned from his near death experience that those who focus & live Christ like lives, will eventually be glorified, perfected & deified in the after life realms.
 
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TheBarrd

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Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Isa 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

There is only ONE Lord, and ONE judge...
 
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