question to sura 9

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47
So he answered and said unto me, It is the Son of God, whom
they have confessed in the world. Then began I greatly to
commend them that stood so stiffly for the name of the Lord.

(Deuterocanonical Apocrypha, Esdras 2 (Ezra 4))

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That's what Mr. Concordance turned up on a search.

I accidentally read your OP to be asking about Ezra being called "son of man" like Jesus was called "son of man", which as I understand it is a title applied to a prophet.

But then I read again and oh...you did ask about son of God

Esdra, in Quran Muhammad refereed Trinity as God/Jesus and Mary as well... Surah 5:116-11.

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Esdra...

There's a pretty good article on the subject at

Uzair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For sure there were wide variety of groups of Christians and Jews around the time of Prophet Muhammad...

Esdra said:

Are you sure that this verse of the apocrypha is meant with mentioned qu'ran verse?

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Oh, I have no idea. It's just the only reference I could find with my concordance (which only looks at KJV translation anyway).

I think it would take someone with a knowledge of Hebrew and Arabic to make much sense out of it, and I struggle with just some French and Spanish lol

I do know the canonical text of Ezra refers to him as "son of man" - a title I am told by those much smarter than myself is something applied to prophets. I'm not even in a position to verify that.

Was 'Uzayr (Ezra) Called The Son Of God?

Rebuttal to Andrew Vargo's Article "Was 'Uzayr (Ezra) Called The Son Of God?"

Mumin said:

That's not what the verse says, you make it up.

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Here is the verse:
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.


There is a talk told in Quran about Jesus and God, where Jesus is asking for a table of food, and the it switch to a warning from Quran that one day God will question if Jesus ever told people that Jesus told people to worship God/Jesus and Mary as deities.


And here is another verses:
They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with God anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’ They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Third of Three (thalithu thalathatin). No god is there but One God. If they refrain not from what they say, there shall afflict those of them that disbelieve a painful chastisement. Will they not turn to God and pray His forgiveness? God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; Messengers before him passed away; his mother was a just woman; they both ate food. Behold, how We make clear the signs to them; then behold, how they perverted are! S. 5:70-75

So in the above verse, Muhammad is clearly making sure we can all see that Messiah and Mary are just humans, he will only make such references if he think the trinity is God/Jesus/Mary, or Mary is the other God.

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Mumin said:

Your conclusion is quite odd. There are some Catholic Christians who pray to Mary, as they do to Jesus. That's it.
Neither Jesus, nor Mary should be prayed.

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The Catholic Christians who pray to Mary is wrong, but they don't take Mary as God, where Muhammad clearly think Christians take Mary as God in Quran.

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I've always wondered about this too. There doesn't seem to be much evidence at all that the Jews ever revered Ezra as the Son of God.

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dcalling,

You have quoted two extracts from the Noble Qur’an. The first:

‘When Allah says: “Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to people, ‘Take me and my mother as two gods alongside Allah?’” he will say: “May You be exalted! I would never say what I had no right to say - if I had said such a thing You would have known it: You know all that is within me, though I do not know what is within You, You alone have full knowledge of things unseen - I told them only what You commanded me to: “Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” I was a witness over them during my time among them. Ever since You took my soul, You alone have been the watcher over them: You are witness to all things.”’

(Al-Ma’ida: 116-117).

Comment:

These verses address two erroneous beliefs: that Yeshua (Radi Allahu ‘anhu) is divine; and that his mother (Radi Allahu ‘anha) is divine.

The former, as you know, is based on the notion that Yeshua claimed divinity for himself. The basis for the latter is not known for sure, but is likely to have grown out of the Church’s excessive veneration of Mary; reinforced (later) by its declaration that she was the Mother of God. It is reasonable to suppose that those who held this belief (the Collyridians) might have thought along these lines: G_d is divine; the Church says Mary is the Mother of G_d; therefore she must also be divine.

In the verses you have quoted, Yeshua is asked two rhetorical questions: ‘Did you ever say that you are divine? ‘Did you ever say that your mother is divine?’ The answer to both questions is in the negative.

It is argued by some that the Collyridians’ belief in the divinity of Mary’s has - somehow - exposed the Prophet’s: ‘misunderstanding of the Trinity’; and that the Noble Qur'an is: ‘anachronistic in that the doctrine of the Trinity post-dates Yeshua by almost four centuries; and so he could not have promulgated it.’

Without doubt the doctrine of the Trinity post-dates Yeshua (no Muslim would argue otherwise). However, the doctrine is predicated on his (alleged) claims, as recorded in the New Testament. Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) is refuting these claims.

The question concerning Mary is refuting the polytheistic beliefs of the Collyridians, and nothing more.

Your second quote:

‘We took a pledge from the Children of Israel, and sent messengers to them. Whenever a messenger brought them anything they did not like, they accused some of lying and put others to death; they thought no harm could come to them and so became blind and deaf (to Allah). Allah turned to them in mercy but many of them again became blind and deaf: Allah is fully aware of their actions.

‘Those who say: “Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary,” have defied Allah. The Messiah himself said: ‘Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ If anyone associates others with Allah, Allah will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers.

‘Those people who say that Allah is the third of three are defying (the truth): there is only One Allah. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness, when Allah is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food (like other mortals). See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are. Say, ‘How can you worship something other than Allah, that has no power to do you harm or good? Allah alone is the All Hearing and All Knowing.’ Say: “People of the Book, do not overstep the bounds of truth in your religion and do not follow the whims of those who went astray before you - they led many others astray and themselves continue to stray from the even path.”’

(Al-Ma’ida: 70-77).

Comment:

You say that in these verses: ‘Muhammad is clearly making sure we can all see that Messiah and Mary are just humans, he will only make such references if he think the trinity is Allah/Jesus/Mary, or Mary is the other Allah.’

I can reply only by affirming that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was but a messenger; and that it is not he but Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) who speaks. The Exalted wants us to understand that Yeshua (Radi Allahu ‘anhu) was a mortal born of a mortal. We are required to understand this because - and only because - it is the truth.

Mumin said:

The evidence is in the Qur'an.

If there was a mistake in all history books, is it an evidence? Or if history books didn't mention something, did it never happen?

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Not necessarily. However, it seems like a pretty big event in Jewish history. I'd expect it to have been mentioned in a few historical sources.

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Mumin said:

If they pray to Mary, they ascribe divinity to Mary, as if she could hear them, or respond to them. But only God does.

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It seems that Catholics don't pray to Mary, they pray with Mary:
Do Catholics Pray to Mary?