Damascus - A Ruinous Heap! Thread Poll To End All "Ruinous Heap" Thread Polls

Damascus, a ruinous heap, fulfilled or unfulfilled?

  • Fulfilled, Tiglath-Pileser carried Damascus away captive (around 734 BCE)

  • Unfulfilled, the state of Israel, is going to bomb them into a ruinous heap

  • Other

  • I Don't Know


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random person

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The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away (5493. sur, is taken captive) from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Isaiah 17:1

This verse states two things that are going to happen to Damascus, its inhabitants will be taken captive and the city will be left a ruinous heap.

Now, historically speaking, has Damascus ever been taken captive and left a ruinous heap? The answer is a resounding YES!


I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the Lord.

Amos 1:5

Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the Lord. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

Amos 9:7

And the king of Assyria hearkened unto him: for the king of Assyria went up against Damascus, and took it, and carried the people of it captive to Kir, and slew Rezin.

2 Kings 16:9


5493. sur ►






Strong's Concordance

sur: to turn aside
Original Word: סוּר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sur
Phonetic Spelling: (soor)
Short Definition: depart
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to turn aside

NASB Translation
abolished (1), avoid (1), beheaded* (1), cut off (1), degenerate (1), depart (45), departed (7), deposed (1), deprives (2), do away (1), escape (1), get (1), go away (1), gone (1), keep away (1), keeps away (1), lacks (1), leave* (2), left (2), move (1), pardoning (1), pass away (1), past (1), put away (12), relieved (1), remove (45), removed (43), removing (1), retract (1), return (1), separated (1), strip away (1), swerve (1), take (2), take away (7), take off (1), taken away (14), takes away (1), took (3), took away (2), took off (2), turn (8), turn aside (25), turn away (12), turn...aside (1), turned (2), turned aside (24), turned away (3), turning aside (1), turning away (3), turns aside (1), turns away (3), undone* (1), wanderer (1), withdrawn (1).


[url="http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5493.htm]sur[/url]

So is the state of Israel going to take the Syrians captive and leave Damascus a ruinous heap?

Or is it fulfilled prophecy and we Christians need to responsibly take the words of Christ to heart, "blessed are the peacemakers" and not teach one another that Damascus someday probably soon will be turned into a sea of desert glass along with all its inhabitants?
 
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keras

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Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus......I shall send fire and consume them.
This and many other prophesies , incl Isaiah 17:1, remain unfulfilled. Previous destructions didn't result in Damascus being 'forever desolate'.
This time the Lord 'will send fire' and virtually the entire M.E. region will be depopulated. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jer. 49:23-27, Zech. 9:1-5
 
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Danoh

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Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus......I shall send fire and consume them.
This and many other prophesies , incl Isaiah 17:1, remain unfulfilled. Previous destructions didn't result in Damascus being 'forever desolate'.
This time the Lord 'will send fire' and virtually the entire M.E. region will be depopulated. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jer. 49:23-27, Zech. 9:1-5

:thumbsup:
 
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Bible2

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random person said in post 1:

So is the state of Israel going to take the Syrians captive and leave Damascus a ruinous heap?

Or is it fulfilled prophecy . . .

Note that 2 Kings 16:9, like Jeremiah 49:23-27, makes no reference to all of the buildings of Damascus being ruined. For the subsequent verse in 2 Kings 16 refers to Damascus still existing as a city, with even a still-existing altar (2 Kings 16:10). Also, 2 Kings 16:9, like Jeremiah 49:23-27, makes no reference to all of Damascus' people being killed or taken into captivity. Compare the partial captivity of Jerusalem in Jeremiah 52:16.

Damascus is said to be the oldest, continually-inhabited city on the earth. But it could be nuked by Israel during a future all-out war (Isaiah 17:1). Yet this war will also break the power of Israel (Isaiah 17:4).

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to prevent the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, or ISIL) from taking over Iraq, and Syria, and all the rest of the Middle East, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (i.e. that which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein's rule), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to keep ISIS/ISIL under control, and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform, for they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, "false flag" operations could be managed by the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification". The first thing that the Antichrist could do once he is given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist federation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated and occupied Israel), is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22).

These ultra-Orthodox Jews could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it is not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm (such as by incapacitating its Jewish defenders with huge clouds of tear gas while tens of thousands of Arab soldiers wearing gas masks take control of the city by climbing over its walls on thousands of tall ladders).

But then, instead of imprisoning or executing all of the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing. He will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23), permitting them to keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City seven years to show that they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City of Jerusalem, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It is all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well-equipped and -advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations. For if the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses across the Arab world as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

"These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were free and far superior to the West".

The Baathists could also rail against the kings and sheikhs of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "Hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all the Arabs, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat and occupation of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

During the first few years of the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a United Arab States, or Arab Union, stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could then begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "World peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich Arab Union join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire earth (Revelation 13:7b).

Then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break it, attack the 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole earth by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 literal days (Revelation 12:6).

The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

When Jesus returns, he will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9), and he will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected church (including those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).
 
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ebedmelech

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Note that 2 Kings 16:9, like Jeremiah 49:23-27, makes no reference to all of the buildings of Damascus being ruined. For the subsequent verse in 2 Kings 16 refers to Damascus still existing as a city, with even a still-existing altar (2 Kings 16:10). Also, 2 Kings 16:9, like Jeremiah 49:23-27, makes no reference to all of Damascus' people being killed or taken into captivity. Compare the partial captivity of Jerusalem in Jeremiah 52:16.

Damascus is said to be the oldest, continually-inhabited city on the earth. But it could be nuked by Israel during a future all-out war (Isaiah 17:1). Yet this war will also break the power of Israel (Isaiah 17:4).
Note that you *try* to have all the answers Bible2, but you fail to read the scriptures carefully. If you believe what is written, you let God give the details THE WAY HE GIVES THEM IN SCRIPTURE!!!

When it comes to Damascus God gives the details He wants to...for instance, your failure to read 2 Kings 17:5 :
5 Then the king of Assyria invaded the whole land and went up to Samaria and besieged it three years.

That's in addition to 2 Kings 16:9: which you don't listen to:
9 So the king of Assyria listened to him; and the king of Assyria went up against Damascus and captured it, and carried the people of it away into exile to Kir, and put Rezin to death.

How about you let God tell the story...He does it better! When God says the king CAPTURED it...that's what He did...and when God says "the king of Assyria INVADED the WHOLE LAND...that's what he did!!!
One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to prevent the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, or ISIL) from taking over Iraq, and Syria, and all the rest of the Middle East, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (i.e. that which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein's rule), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to keep ISIS/ISIL under control, and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform, for they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, "false flag" operations could be managed by the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification". The first thing that the Antichrist could do once he is given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist federation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated and occupied Israel), is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22).

These ultra-Orthodox Jews could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it is not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm (such as by incapacitating its Jewish defenders with huge clouds of tear gas while tens of thousands of Arab soldiers wearing gas masks take control of the city by climbing over its walls on thousands of tall ladders).

But then, instead of imprisoning or executing all of the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing. He will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23), permitting them to keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City seven years to show that they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City of Jerusalem, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It is all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well-equipped and -advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations. For if the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses across the Arab world as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

"These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were free and far superior to the West".

The Baathists could also rail against the kings and sheikhs of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "Hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all the Arabs, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat and occupation of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

During the first few years of the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a United Arab States, or Arab Union, stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could then begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "World peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich Arab Union join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire earth (Revelation 13:7b).

Then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break it, attack the 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole earth by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 literal days (Revelation 12:6).

The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

When Jesus returns, he will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9), and he will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected church (including those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).
All ot that is good fantasy Bible2, and perhaps you ought to write "eschatology novels"...but it doesn't wash.

Have it your way though, because you love to post post your "cut and paste", overloaded, and saved Bible2 answers...then run rather than really work through passages in the scriptures for what they say.
 
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Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus......I shall send fire and consume them.
This and many other prophesies , incl Isaiah 17:1, remain unfulfilled. Previous destructions didn't result in Damascus being 'forever desolate'.
This time the Lord 'will send fire' and virtually the entire M.E. region will be depopulated. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jer. 49:23-27, Zech. 9:1-5

Incorrect, Tiglath-Pileser III is the first successful Assyrian king to conquer Damascus in a line of several failures by Assyrians kings to conquer Damascus.

Tiglath-Pileser III is said to be the height of all Assyrian conquests, and one of their greatest kings, he is also known by his Babylonian kingname Pul (Pulu) which he'd taken up once he conquered Babylon and sat on its throne.

This is the Assyrian king that started the whole depopulate conquered territories and fill these depopulated conquered territories with other displaced conquered peoples. That is what happened to the lost tribes of Israel.

Guess what? Tiglath-Pileser III depopulated Damascus.
 
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keras

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Incorrect, Tiglath-Pileser III is the first successful Assyrian king to conquer Damascus in a line of several failures by Assyrians kings to conquer Damascus.

Tiglath-Pileser III is said to be the height of all Assyrian conquests, and one of their greatest kings, he is also known by his Babylonian kingname Pul (Pulu) which he'd taken up once he conquered Babylon and sat on its throne.

This is the Assyrian king that started the whole depopulate conquered territories and fill these depopulated conquered territories with other displaced conquered peoples. That is what happened to the lost tribes of Israel.

Guess what? Tiglath-Pileser III depopulated Damascus.

Another preterists failure to read properly!
Isaiah 17:1-2....Damascus is taken away from being a city....a place for flocks to lie down....
Damascus has been conquered many times, but this prophecy has NOT been fulfilled, but it will be this time; by the Lord Himself.
 
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ebedmelech

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Another preterists failure to read properly!
Isaiah 17:1-2....Damascus is taken away from being a city....a place for flocks to lie down....
Damascus has been conquered many times, but this prophecy has NOT been fulfilled, but it will be this time; by the Lord Himself.
Another futurist without a clue!

The prophecy applies to that time frame...and Damascus certainly ceased to be at that time.

You simply pulled those verses out of context...but Jeremiah says the same thing in chapter 49, and Amos also in chapter 1.

Once again...coming to the text with a mindset...instead of allowing the text to speak...nor comparing scripture with scripture.

Utter failure!!!
 
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keras

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Ebed, because you are intolerant of others, your opinion counts for nothing.
None of the prophesies about the fate of Damascus - Isaiah 17:1, Jer. 49:23-27, Amos 1:3-5 and Zech. 9:1-4, have been totally fulfilled. Maybe part of their context is in an ancient event, but because Damascus still remains a city today, we know its doom is yet future.
When prophesies like Ezekiel 30:1-5 happen, then all the Middle East will be devastated.
 
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ebedmelech

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Ebed, because you are intolerant of others, your opinion counts for nothing.
I've not been intolerant of anything but error, such as how you interpret prophecy keras. Everytime I show your error of the scriptures you come with such explanations, that simply show how you cannot read scripture properly.

Don't try to speak for others because you cannot...speak for yourself keras...and let others voice what their opinion in their own post.
None of the prophesies about the fate of Damascus - Isaiah 17:1, Jer. 49:23-27, Amos 1:3-5 and Zech. 9:1-4, have been totally fulfilled. Maybe part of their context is in an ancient event, but because Damascus still remains a city today, we know its doom is yet future.
When prophesies like Ezekiel 30:1-5 happen, then all the Middle East will be devastated.

I'll just advise you to read 2 Kings 16 and 2 Chronicles 28 which thoroughly show how ignorant of fulfilled prophecy you really are...and I mean "ignorant" in the true meaning of the word which means "lacking knowledge", which you've demonstrated. This is tricky if you don't make the distinctions the prophets are making.

*Isaiah is speaking of Assyria in Isaiah 17.

Isaiah affirms how to apply his prophecy in Isaiah 1:1:
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem, which he saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

Isaiah's prophecy covers the Assyrian and Babylonian Empires!

Jeremiah is speaking of Babylon!

Jeremiah 1:1-3 tells us where his prophecy fits:
1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests who were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin,
2 to whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.
3 It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the exile of Jerusalem in the fifth month.


Amos is speaking of Assyria also in concert with Isaiah
Amos 1:1 also tells us how to apply his prophecy:
1 The words of Amos, who was among the sheepherders from Tekoa, which he envisioned in visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joash, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.

Now keras, you can either acknowledge how these prophets tell you to look at their prophecy, or be left to your own erroneous devices.

As for Ezekiel 30:1-5...once again you show historical lack of knowledge! Look at Ezekiel 30:5:
5 Ethiopia, Put, Lud, all Arabia, Libya and the people of the land that is in league will fall with them by the sword.”
Let's show your ignorance by quoting Ezekiel 30:9, 10 to show you simply "cherry pick" scripture for your purpose:
9 On that day messengers will go forth from Me in ships to frighten secure Ethiopia; and anguish will be on them as on the day of Egypt; for behold, it comes!”
10 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease
By the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.


Now go read Jeremiah 25 which tells you like Ezekiel, this all happens under Nebuchadnezzar.

You simply DON'T read scripture properly keras, or you don't reflect on what you read. So you can try to say I'm "intolerant" but what I've just shown is you simply are in error.
 
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keras

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Ebed, it is fruitless for you and I to discuss prophecy. You are fixated on it all being fulfilled in the past, despite your inability to prove such a belief, such as: When did Damascus, Amman and all the Middle East become 'heaps of white ash'? Isaiah 33:10-12 Has Amman 'become a desolate mound'? Jeremiah 49:2

Has 'the time come when God will punish all the circumcised? Jeremiah 9:25-26

You say: read Jeremiah 25. It does tell of the Babylonian captivity, but the prophesies from v15-38, speak of a later time, a Day when 'the Lord will roar from on high....the great noise will reach to the ends of the earth. Those whom the Lord has slain on that Day, will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other......

You simply prove your bias and inability to understand prophecy, when you say all that is history.

The cup of wrath Psalm 75:8, Rev. 14:17-20
Jeremiah 25:15-29 All the kingdoms on the face of the earth must receive from the Hand of the Lord, the cup of the wine of His wrath, all the nations must drink of it. The Lord of Hosts: Y’hovah of Israel has spoken! – Drink this and get drunk, be sick, fall down never to rise again, because of the sword I am sending among you. I shall first punish the city that bears My Name, do you think that you can be exempt? No, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth.
[This great testing will come ‘against all the inhabitants of the earth’. Luke 21:35 No one will be ‘raptured ‘ out of it. The area that will bear the brunt of this punishment is the Middle East, but the whole world will be affected. Jer. 9:10-11, Ezekiel 20:47-48, Obadiah 16]

Jeremiah 25:30-32 The Lord will thunder from on high and roar mightily against His Land. This great noise reaches around the world. He will bring judgement to all mankind and the wicked shall die. Disaster will spread from nation to nation, a mighty tempest will blow up from the far corners of the earth.] 2 Peter 3:7 & 10
[‘Thunder from on high’, heard around the world, ‘a mighty tempest spreads from country to country’. This gives the clue as to what it is that causes this terrible disaster. A CME sunstrike will affect each area in succession as the earth rotates to face the sun. Joel 2:2 describes how it all happens: Like the dawn it spreads across the mountains, then Joel uses the metaphor of an army to give the impression of a huge mass. Joel 2:3 says exactly what does happen; Before them, a fire devours, behind them is a blazing flame, in front the land is a garden, behind is a desolate waste, nothing survives their passing. Temperatures of 175c = 350f will kill millions and the highly charged cosmic particles will destroy most of our modern infrastructure. Jer. 4:23-29
Jeremiah 25:33 Those whom the Lord has slain on that Day will lay scattered from one end of the world to the other, they will not be mourned or buried, they will be as dung spread over the ground. Jeremiah 9:21-22, Isaiah 66:24, Isaiah 34:2-3

Jeremiah 25:34-38 Wail and mourn, you shepherds of the flock, you leaders – for your time to be slaughtered has come, you will fall and be smashed like pottery. You cannot escape and the Lord will destroy your pastures and homes. The Land will become a waste because of this judgement of His fierce anger. Zephaniah 1:14-18
[This is a terrible indictment against those who preach false teaching and who deny Bible truths. Isa 3:13-15, James 3:1]

The Land of Greater Israel will be uninhabited and desolate after this Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. A Jewish remnant will remain in Jerusalem. Isaiah 24:1-4
Then the Lord promises rain and regeneration ‘in a very short time’ Isa. 29:17, Isa. 35
His righteous people will gather and settle into all of the Land that He promised to their forefathers. Jer. 31, Ezekiel 34:11-16 The new Land of Beulah. Isaiah 62:2b-5
They will live there in peace and security, fulfilling His plan for them to be a nation that shows the rest of the world how we were intended to live. Isaiah 43:10
Later, at the glorious Return of Jesus, it is them who say “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord”! Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
 
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ebedmelech

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Ebed, it is fruitless for you and I to discuss prophecy. You are fixated on it all being fulfilled in the past, despite your inability to prove such a belief, such as: When did Damascus, Amman and all the Middle East become 'heaps of white ash'? Isaiah 33:10-12 Has Amman 'become a desolate mound'? Jeremiah 49:2
It is fruitless...because if you read 2 Kings 16, 17 as well as 2 Chronicles 28.

What you want is for God to lay it out for you and He didn't. God gave one statement in 2 Kings 17:5:
5 Then the king of Assyria invaded the whole land and went up to Samaria and besieged it three years.
Do you understand "THE WHOLE LAND" keras?
Has 'the time come when God will punish all the circumcised? Jeremiah 9:25-26
First you need to understand what God means by uncircumcised...and you consistently demonstrate you don't. It's about spiritual circumcision keras..the circumcision of the hear! Remember Deuteronomy 10:16?:
16 So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.

Once again the utter failure of literal interpretation as well as disregarding what God has said in another passage.

Another passage is what Stephen said to those who argued with him and then stoned him...Acts 7:51
51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Hmmm???
You say: read Jeremiah 25. It does tell of the Babylonian captivity, but the prophesies from v15-38, speak of a later time, a Day when 'the Lord will roar from on high....the great noise will reach to the ends of the earth. Those whom the Lord has slain on that Day, will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other......
No..once again your inability to read scripture without imposing what you think looms large...did you read on to Jeremiah 26? NO! Why?
You simply prove your bias and inability to understand prophecy, when you say all that is history.

The cup of wrath Psalm 75:8, Rev. 14:17-20
Jeremiah 25:15-29 All the kingdoms on the face of the earth must receive from the Hand of the Lord, the cup of the wine of His wrath, all the nations must drink of it. The Lord of Hosts: Y’hovah of Israel has spoken! – Drink this and get drunk, be sick, fall down never to rise again, because of the sword I am sending among you. I shall first punish the city that bears My Name, do you think that you can be exempt? No, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth.
[This great testing will come ‘against all the inhabitants of the earth’. Luke 21:35 No one will be ‘raptured ‘ out of it. The area that will bear the brunt of this punishment is the Middle East, but the whole world will be affected. Jer. 9:10-11, Ezekiel 20:47-48, Obadiah 16]

Jeremiah 25:30-32 The Lord will thunder from on high and roar mightily against His Land. This great noise reaches around the world. He will bring judgement to all mankind and the wicked shall die. Disaster will spread from nation to nation, a mighty tempest will blow up from the far corners of the earth.] 2 Peter 3:7 & 10
Thunder from on high’, heard around the world, ‘a mighty tempest spreads from country to country’. This gives the clue as to what it is that causes this terrible disaster. A CME sunstrike will affect each area in succession as the earth rotates to face the sun. Joel 2:2 describes how it all happens: Like the dawn it spreads across the mountains, then Joel uses the metaphor of an army to give the impression of a huge mass. Joel 2:3 says exactly what does happen; Before them, a fire devours, behind them is a blazing flame, in front the land is a garden, behind is a desolate waste, nothing survives their passing. Temperatures of 175c = 350f will kill millions and the highly charged cosmic particles will destroy most of our modern infrastructure. Jer. 4:23-29
Jeremiah 25:33 Those whom the Lord has slain on that Day will lay scattered from one end of the world to the other, they will not be mourned or buried, they will be as dung spread over the ground. Jeremiah 9:21-22, Isaiah 66:24, Isaiah 34:2-3

Jeremiah 25:34-38 Wail and mourn, you shepherds of the flock, you leaders – for your time to be slaughtered has come, you will fall and be smashed like pottery. You cannot escape and the Lord will destroy your pastures and homes. The Land will become a waste because of this judgement of His fierce anger. Zephaniah 1:14-18
[This is a terrible indictment against those who preach false teaching and who deny Bible truths. Isa 3:13-15, James 3:1]

The Land of Greater Israel will be uninhabited and desolate after this Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. A Jewish remnant will remain in Jerusalem. Isaiah 24:1-4
Then the Lord promises rain and regeneration ‘in a very short time’ Isa. 29:17, Isa. 35
His righteous people will gather and settle into all of the Land that He promised to their forefathers. Jer. 31, Ezekiel 34:11-16 The new Land of Beulah. Isaiah 62:2b-5
They will live there in peace and security, fulfilling His plan for them to be a nation that shows the rest of the world how we were intended to live. Isaiah 43:10
Later, at the glorious Return of Jesus, it is them who say “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord”! Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
Keras..you are the most out of context reader of scripture I've come across in a long time.

I'll just pick one of your points to show your ignorance again. You chose Psalm 75:8 ...which simply points out our sovereign God's ability to issue judgement. So...which cup is it keras?...because God issued a lot of cups of wrath throughout time.

Is any of this registering?
 
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Danoh

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Ebed, you consistently appear Dyslexic in your understanding of other's words. You appear to understand the opposite of their words.

He asked "Has the time come when God will punish all the circumcised? Jeremiah 9:25-26" - meaning he understands the circumcision issue there is a spiritual one.

But you, in one more of your many "bottle is half empty" reactions to another's "bottle is half full" conclude they are wrong.

You constantly do that.

Here, I'll phrase this in a way that your habitual mismatching polarity response isn't set off [whoops; too late] - you never do that :)
 
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keras

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Thanks Danoh.
I keep on promoting the truth of the Prophetic Word, despite people like Ebed, whom I see as in a sad state of denial and locked into their wrong beliefs, even while the world around them approaches disaster. Isaiah 28:9
It is for the sake of the many readers of this forum, that I post what the prophets actually wrote and do my best to explain it using other scripture and modern knowledge.

Yes Ebed, I read Jeremiah 26 too. It does describe past events. Does that preclude Jer 25:15-38 from being unfulfilled prophecy? NO, because what is described there HAS NOT HAPPENED YET.
People are not stupid, they can see how you are blinded to what is history and what is still to come.

Anyone who places themselves as a member of the 144,000 has lost touch with reality.
 
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ebedmelech

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Ebed, you consistently appear Dyslexic in your understanding of other's words. You appear to understand the opposite of their words.

He asked "Has the time come when God will punish all the circumcised? Jeremiah 9:25-26" - meaning he understands the circumcision issue there is a spiritual one.

But you, in one more of your many "bottle is half empty" reactions to another's "bottle is half full" conclude they are wrong.

You constantly do that.
You're correct, I made the mistake of reading that wrong...but that is not what I do consistently Danoh. You're simply trying to make this an issue for your purpose.

You, just as keras are missing the fact that these prophecies are fulfilled in God judging Israel as is explained in 2 Kings 17:7-41...and later judging Judah at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar.
Here, I'll phrase this in a way that your habitual mismatching polarity response isn't set off [whoops; too late] - you never do that :)
This jesting is your way of finding comfort in your own erroneous view of scripture.

How about you go learn that there is one gospel...ok? At least keras understands that. So much for you Danoh.
____________

Thanks Danoh.
I keep on promoting the truth of the Prophetic Word, despite people like Ebed, whom I see as in a sad state of denial and locked into their wrong beliefs, even while the world around them approaches disaster. Isaiah 28:9
It is for the sake of the many readers of this forum, that I post what the prophets actually wrote and do my best to explain it using other scripture and modern knowledge.
You keep erroneously promoting what you think is truth keras. That's why I call it erroneous...because you sincerely believe you have the truth.
Yes Ebed, I read Jeremiah 26 too. It does describe past events. Does that preclude Jer 25:15-38 from being unfulfilled prophecy? NO, because what is described there HAS NOT HAPPENED YET.
People are not stupid, they can see how you are blinded to what is history and what is still to come.
You are again trying to appeal to others for your error keras. You and Danoh again need to read 2 Kings 17:7-41. Perhaps you'll pick up on the facts.
Anyone who places themselves as a member of the 144,000 has lost touch with reality.
You can try (like Danoh), to make this an issue because of the error in which you approach scripture. However when will either of you actually read Revelation 7, allowing John to speak to you instead of you reading into John?

This too shall pass...my siggy stands...:thumbsup:
 
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