14 Verses That Prove God Fulfilled All Land Promises In Genesis 15:18-21

Acts 1:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Matthew 10:

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The land is tied to THEIR commission...

Luke 24:

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Acts 3:

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Of course, God had planned to interrupt all that; its short work of wrath upon this earth included...

Romans 9:

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

He went from His dealings with Israel as a nation to His dealings with individual Jews and Gentiles - BOTH now in UNcircumcision - UNTIL the fulness of this UNcircumcision salvation be come in.

At some point afterwhich He will finish "a short work upon this earth" as to "all ISRAEL..."

Few appear to get this all Israel, in contrast to this individual Jew distinction...

Then again, few bother to attempt to properly understand "this mystery..."

random:

Read Deut 28-30 where Moses saves us the trouble of having to cook up Israel's prophetic history from a grab-bag scattered verses. Moses does this by providing Israel's whole future history in a simple 3-part story:

1. Blessing (in the land)
2. Cursed:
--- a. conquered by foreigners
--- b. national destruction, then a long, suffering, homeless wandering exile.
3. Return (re-blessed, returned to the land, given a "circumcision of the heart".

Moses' story is super simple, super straight-forward, and super-agrees with history.

Check it out, brother!

gospelfer said:

random:

Read Deut 28-30 where Moses saves us the trouble of having to cook up Israel's prophetic history from a grab-bag scattered verses. Moses does this by providing Israel's whole future history in a simple 3-part story:

1. Blessing (in the land)
2. Cursed:
--- a. conquered by foreigners
--- b. national destruction, then a long, suffering, homeless wandering exile.
3. Return (re-blessed, returned to the land, given a "circumcision of the heart".

Moses' story is super simple, super straight-forward, and super-agrees with history.

Check it out, brother!

Click to expand...

Number 3 is yet future; their return - Moses', Jeremiah's, Ezekiel's, Daniel's, et al prophesied captivity back unto their land - is prophesied as a captivity which will be in their Obedience NOT in their DISobedience.

Danoh said:

Number 3 is yet future; their return - Jeremiah's prophesied captivity back unto their land - is prophesied as a captivity which will be in their Obedience NOT in their DISobedience.

Click to expand...

Yes, 3, "the return", is future -- it's quite obvious. The curse is coming to an end, and the return is starting. The re-establishment of Israel marked the beginning of that bumpy road of return.

I've just been re-reading Isaiah, and I am astonished at all the judgments raining down on all those "ancient" places hostile to Israel: Gaza, Lebanon, Moab (Jordan/west bank), Syria. It's amazing how God set up the chess-board: it's all there. To a historicist, it must all look like "normal" history, but if they read through Isaiah, they would choke on their coffee at how accurately Isaiah paints the modern situation.

random person said in post 1:

Joshua 21:43-45

Click to expand...

Note that Joshua 21:43 doesn't require that the promise of the land of Canaan was valid only in the past, instead of it still being valid in our present and in our future. For the promise is that Canaan will be "an everlasting possession" (Genesis 17:8).

Indeed, God still has regard for the land of Israel (as in Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (as in Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). For even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), the earthly Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, if even those who are "strangers" in Israel can inherit the land of Israel (Ezekiel 47:21-23), then certainly believing Gentiles, who are "no more strangers" to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), will inherit the land of Israel during the future millennium of Revelation 20:4-6. And they will inherit the land and all the other promises given to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:29, Genesis 12:7) along with all the elect Jews who have ever been saved in the past or who will get saved in our future, including at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:25-32).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Danoh said in post 4:

Number 3 is yet future; their return - Moses', Jeremiah's, Ezekiel's, Daniel's, et al prophesied captivity back unto their land - is prophesied as a captivity which will be in their Obedience NOT in their DISobedience.

Click to expand...

That's right.

And the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the literal, fruitless fig tree (Matthew 21:19) foreshadowed his curse on the part of Old Covenant Israel which rejected him (Matthew 21:43), for a fig tree can represent Israel (Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9). And the Israel which was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel which Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

random person said:

What you are failing to comprehend is that all of this is already past fulfilled.

And all of this was already fulfilled with the return from Babylonian captivity, the arrival of Christ, and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit upon the house of Israel (circumcision of the heart). But only a remnant accepted and was saved (Joel 2:32).

Now, Christ has brought into perfect union between Jews and Gentiles into one body under one Spirit with equal footing and blessings.

But you dispensationalists want to eraise the partition between Jews and Gentiles, why?

Click to expand...

Please read Moses carefully. The curse was not fullfilled in the Babylonian exile. Moses describes the Babylonian exile in 28:33-44. His account, however, continues, with an assertion of multiple subsequent conquerors (verse 48), and then the total Roman destrcution (verses 49-57), and then a total exile (58-68). Of this total exile Moses asserts 7 facts:

1. It will be long (Egyptian scale long) -- as opposed to the one generation of the Babylonian exile.
2. It will entail wandering -- as opposed to the Babylonian exile which did not.
3. It will be to "all the nations of the world" -- as opposed to one nation(Babylon).
4. It will be one of extended suffering.
5. Israel will have no home during this time -- as opposed to the Babylonian exile, where in fact most Jews remained in Israel.
6. Israel will be hated by all mankind -- as opposed to the Babylonian exile.
7. Israel destruction would come at the hands of a poeple of unfamiliar language (true of the Romans who spoke and Indo-European tongue) -- but not the Babylonians, who spoke a sister Semitic tongue to Hebrew.

What Moses describes in verses 58-68 looks like the Jews history for last 2000 years, not the time of Babylon. You assert Moses' curse was completed by the time of the arrival of the Christ, but it was not. You are simply not seeing what Moses actually writes.

Finally, in describing Israel's return to God, the land, and favor, Moses says that the Jew will receive a "circumcision of the heart", forever binding him to God and ensuring his loyalty. Can anyone really think this describes the Jews' return from Babylon? You say Moses' description of the "return" is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, but part of the "return" is an actually return to the land "from all the poeple where God has scattered you". Furthermore, "You will be prosperous and more numerous", "you will possess the land" (the Romans possessed in Christ's day), "God will put all Israel's curses on its foes". Trying to place Moses "return" at the time of the Christ make no historical sense whatsoever.

The sum of all these reasons is the cause people reject preterism. It simply doesn't match scripture's prophetic story.

Now what you say about equal spiritual footing is absolutely true. Moses was describing the future historical story of the Jews. It has nothing to do with spiritual footing at all. In so far as the Jews missed the Messiah, their position has been spiritually inferior. But the prophetic story remains, and the Jew is about to return, and he will achieve spiritual parity with the gentile. We all should be looking forward to this. Paul did.

gospelfer said:

random:

Read Deut 28-30 where Moses saves us the trouble of having to cook up Israel's prophetic history from a grab-bag scattered verses. Moses does this by providing Israel's whole future history in a simple 3-part story:

1. Blessing (in the land)
2. Cursed:
--- a. conquered by foreigners
--- b. national destruction, then a long, suffering, homeless wandering exile.
3. Return (re-blessed, returned to the land, given a "circumcision of the heart".

Moses' story is super simple, super straight-forward, and super-agrees with history.

Check it out, brother!

Click to expand...

I'm really happy you keep pressing the Deuteronomy angle here, but I disagree with how you are interpreting it as pertaining to the future Day of the Lord described in Revelation.

Jesus, like Moses, is the "prophet" that is leading us into the "place God has prepared for us".

The blessing goes to the faithful, the curse goes to the unfaithful. In essence, a logic tree creating 2 paths fulfilled by 2 parties. Not a historical view like yours that says "blessing, then curse, then restored".

It is "either / or" not one then the other. Plus in Deut 31, there is the prophecy of sinning in the desert.

The false prophet leads the people into the sinning that is understood to happen ahead of time in Deut 31.

In other words, the curse of being unfaithful is being with the false prophet. Israel's enemies will be destroyed and unfaithful Israel will "go into the land that they are possessing". Then the false prophet corrupts them after the Jubilee, which is the physical counterpart to the spiritual Jubilee announced by Christ in Luke 4.

In logic tree fashion, the faithful go into the land that they are possessing and they are restored. The unfaithful go into the land that they are possessing and are corrupted by the false prophet. After the false prophet is killed, then unfaithful Israel can be restored. Then faithful and unfaithful, having both been purified can be joined and restored.

I continue to find it highly questionable on the part of the Preterists and their various offshoots how that; whereas prophecies concerning Christ were fulfilled exactly as prophesied, the Preterists and their offshoots have no problem fitting whatever event in history fits their distortion regardless of how often those events do not fit in every point what was prophesied.

Theirs is a god who hits a bulls eye as to the son each time out but then gets really sloppy, picking whatever event in history almost resembles what was prophesied as to all other events.

Not that some futurists escape this same "perhaps this, maybe that..." culpability.

tranquil said:

I'm really happy you keep pressing the Deuteronomy angle here, but I disagree with how you are interpreting it as pertaining to the future Day of the Lord described in Revelation.

Jesus, like Moses, is the "prophet" that is leading us into the "place God has prepared for us".

The blessing goes to the faithful, the curse goes to the unfaithful. In essence, a logic tree creating 2 paths fulfilled by 2 parties. Not a historical view like yours that says "blessing, then curse, then restored".

It is "either / or" not one then the other. Plus in Deut 31, there is the prophecy of sinning in the desert.

The false prophet leads the people into the sinning that is understood to happen ahead of time in Deut 31.

In other words, the curse of being unfaithful is being with the false prophet. Israel's enemies will be destroyed and unfaithful Israel will "go into the land that they are possessing". Then the false prophet corrupts them after the Jubilee, which is the physical counterpart to the spiritual Jubilee announced by Christ in Luke 4.

In logic tree fashion, the faithful go into the land that they are possessing and they are restored. The unfaithful go into the land that they are possessing and are corrupted by the false prophet. After the false prophet is killed, then unfaithful Israel can be restored. Then faithful and unfaithful, having both been purified can be joined and restored.

Click to expand...

Where he fails to see that previously "hid in God" Mystery that would and has TEMPORARILY interrupted Moses - where he fuses both together that Moses hold up - you fuse both together that Moses be replaced.

The division is not between Old and New - both of which are Mosaic - but between Prophecy [Mosaic] and Mystery [Pauline].

Between this - Acts 3:

21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES of restitution of ALL things, which God hath SPOKEN by the mouth of ALL his holy prophets SINCE the world began.

And this - Eph. 3:

9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of THE MYSTERY, which FROM THE BEGINNING of the world hath been HID IN GOD, who created ALL things by Jesus Christ:

Per passages like Romans 11:25-29, what Moses prophesied AS TO ISRAEL'S FULNESS one day is TEMPORARILY on hold.

For other witnesses, see also, Acts 1, Acts 15, Gal. 3, 1 Peter 1, 2 Peter 3, et al...

Danoh said:

Where he fails to see that previously "hid in God" Mystery that would and has TEMPORARILY interrupted Moses - where he fuses both together that Moses hold up - you fuse both together that Moses be replaced.

The division is not between Old and New - both of which are Mosaic - but between Prophecy [Mosaic] and Mystery [Pauline].

Between this - Acts 3:

21 Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES of restitution of ALL things, which God hath SPOKEN by the mouth of ALL his holy prophets SINCE the world began.

And this - Eph. 3:

9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of THE MYSTERY, which FROM THE BEGINNING of the world hath been HID IN GOD, who created ALL things by Jesus Christ:

Per passages like Romans 11:25-29, what Moses prophesied AS TO ISRAEL'S FULNESS one day is TEMPORARILY on hold.

For other witnesses, see also, Acts 1, Acts 15, Gal. 3, 1 Peter 1, 2 Peter 3, et al...

Click to expand...

I have no idea what you mean by this

tranquil said:

I have no idea what you mean by this

Click to expand...

It is perhaps new to you...

Try this; read Acts 3. Even if you are familiar with it.

Then read 2 Peter 3.

In 2 Peter 3, he more or less reminds his readers back then, of an interruption of what he had preached in Acts 3.

And he reminds them that Paul had written of this interruption.

The other passages I mentioned above also contain information about this temporary interruption; contain information about these "Things That Differ."

Why are we even having this conversation?

Say what you want to say. Use scripture to back it up. Not complicated.

tranquil said:

I'm really happy you keep pressing the Deuteronomy angle here, but I disagree with how you are interpreting it as pertaining to the future Day of the Lord described in Revelation.

Jesus, like Moses, is the "prophet" that is leading us into the "place God has prepared for us".

The blessing goes to the faithful, the curse goes to the unfaithful. In essence, a logic tree creating 2 paths fulfilled by 2 parties. Not a historical view like yours that says "blessing, then curse, then restored".

It is "either / or" not one then the other. Plus in Deut 31, there is the prophecy of sinning in the desert.

The false prophet leads the people into the sinning that is understood to happen ahead of time in Deut 31.

In other words, the curse of being unfaithful is being with the false prophet. Israel's enemies will be destroyed and unfaithful Israel will "go into the land that they are possessing". Then the false prophet corrupts them after the Jubilee, which is the physical counterpart to the spiritual Jubilee announced by Christ in Luke 4.

In logic tree fashion, the faithful go into the land that they are possessing and they are restored. The unfaithful go into the land that they are possessing and are corrupted by the false prophet. After the false prophet is killed, then unfaithful Israel can be restored. Then faithful and unfaithful, having both been purified can be joined and restored.

Click to expand...

Yes, there is a spiritual angle to this. And there is a sense in which there is a spiritual Israel which is bigger than Abraham's physical descendents. But the fact is that Moses' story is a national-historical one. The "curse" as Moses described it actually happened to Abraham's descendents -- we can see it in history. The same will be true of the "return".

So what you say as a spiritual statement is true, but it will not prevent Moses statements of the Jew's "return" coming true as a historical reality -- as was the case for the earlier "blessing", and "curse". The Jew remains entwined in the worlds prophetic-history, just a before. Why, I don't know, but writing the Jew of out prophecy requires too much violence exercised against scripture's text to be acceptable to any honest reader.

Danoh said:

I continue to find it highly questionable on the part of the Preterists and their various offshoots how that; whereas prophecies concerning Christ were fulfilled exactly as prophesied, the Preterists and their offshoots have no problem fitting whatever event in history fits their distortion regardless of how often those events do not fit in every point what was prophesied.

Theirs is a god who hits a bulls eye as to the son each time out but then gets really sloppy, picking whatever event in history almost resembles what was prophesied as to all other events.

Not that some futurists escape this same "perhaps this, maybe that..." culpability.

Click to expand...

This is exact problem in a nutshell. Everything up to Christ is exact and historical. Afterwards, historical prophecy suddenly becomes "spiritual". I've several time suggested preterists look at what the Rabbis say about the suffering servant. The spiritualize anything the prophets say about Him, effectively excising him from possibility of historical fulfillment. This is what preterists do with prophecy's statements of the Jew. This fact that their methods and effect upon scripture is the same as the Rabbis should terrify preterists, but it does not seem too. It is passing strange.