A Good Woman

.

TransmitterTech said:

I am NOT a chauvinist pig and I love my wife but I really believe that a good number of divorces are due to women not fulfilling their God-given place in life. I'm not saying that all women must do this, some must work and there are other circumstances but I think a great deal of the problems have to do with having two "chiefs". Just saying:

Proverbs

10 A good woman is hard to find, and worth far more than diamonds. 11 Her husband trusts her without reserve, and never has reason to regret it. 12 Never spiteful, she treats him generously all her life long. 13 She shops around for the best yarns and cottons, and enjoys knitting and sewing. 14 She's like a trading ship that sails to faraway places and brings back exotic surprises. 15 She's up before dawn, preparing breakfast for her family and organizing her day. 16 She looks over a field and buys it, then, with money she's put aside, plants a garden. 17 First thing in the morning, she dresses for work, rolls up her sleeves, eager to get started. 18 She senses the worth of her work, is in no hurry to call it quits for the day. 19 She's skilled in the crafts of home and hearth, diligent in homemaking. 20 She's quick to assist anyone in need, reaches out to help the poor. 21 She doesn't worry about her family when it snows; their winter clothes are all mended and ready to wear. 22 She makes her own clothing, and dresses in colorful linens and silks. 23 Her husband is greatly respected when he deliberates with the city fathers. 24 She designs gowns and sells them, brings the sweaters she knits to the dress shops. 25 Her clothes are well-made and elegant, and she always faces tomorrow with a smile. 26 When she speaks she has something worthwhile to say, and she always says it kindly. 27 She keeps an eye on everyone in her household, and keeps them all busy and productive. 28 Her children respect and bless her; her husband joins in with words of praise: 29 "Many women have done wonderful things, but you've outclassed them all!" 30 Charm can mislead and beauty soon fades. The woman to be admired and praised is the woman who lives in the Fear-of-God. 31 Give her everything she deserves! Festoon her life with praises!

Click to expand...

Men! In most cases of existing marriages, in the western world —

• women have a one-day white-dress party followed by, if they are lucky, a week’s vacation, then it's down to business making a home for you
• women still change their names to yours, and you just expect that without thought, but she thinks about it, believe me
• women still leave their homes for you, leave their families for you
• women still get pregnant for you, and the pregnancies change both their bodies and their lives
• they may become overweight, and if they do, you will likely complain, but you were not the one who gave up your body to bear the children
• nor were you the one to bear the pain of childbirth
• and even the children they bore have your name, usually not hers
• women still cook, clean, bring up children
• women often still work to assure that you have a place and a time to relax
• women still maintain family relations and communications for you
• often, women do all this at the sacrifice of their youth, beauty, and hobbies

So think before you complain.

I wish I would have found a wife of that character. My wife had an affair on me and did not keep a clean house. She never made meals for the family and was, in my opinion, lazy. Hopefully, the next wife I have will be better suited to the Proverbs 31 model.

nick garai said:

I wish I would have found a wife of that character. My wife had an affair on me and did not keep a clean house. She never made meals for the family and was, in my opinion, lazy. Hopefully, the next wife I have will be better suited to the Proverbs 31 model.

Click to expand...

I had a terrible relationship too. Sorry Nick.

Are you prepared to do the hard, consistent, daily work to be the husband who deserves such a wife?

Devorim said:

Men! In most cases of existing marriages, in the western world —

• women have a one-day white-dress party followed by, if they are lucky, a week’s vacation, then it's down to business making a home for you
• women still change their names to yours, and you just expect that without thought, but she thinks about it, believe me
• women still leave their homes for you, leave their families for you
• women still get pregnant for you, and the pregnancies change both their bodies and their lives
• they may become overweight, and if they do, you will likely complain, but you were not the one who gave up your body to bear the children
• nor were you the one to bear the pain of childbirth
• and even the children they bore have your name, usually not hers
• women still cook, clean, bring up children
• women often still work to assure that you have a place and a time to relax
• women still maintain family relations and communications for you
• often, women do all this at the sacrifice of their youth, beauty, and hobbies

So think before you complain.

Click to expand...

This is really what you find to complain about? Some things a man can't do, some things wives are meant to do as a help mate, and other things you are just as sexist saying that only wives do. BOTH people in a marriage give up their family; Both people go back to work after the vacation; BOTH people work so the other can have a place and time to relax. Your biggest complaints are some of the most superficial crap ever. BOTH sacrifice their youth and hobbies....and if in the marriage they are striving to live it as biblicaly as they can, they both sacrifice EVERYTHING. You have a very secular, cynical view of marriage.

BrokenGhost said:

This is really what you find to complain about? Some things a man can't do, some things wives are meant to do as a help mate, and other things you are just as sexist saying that only wives do. BOTH people in a marriage give up their family; Both people go back to work after the vacation; BOTH people work so the other can have a place and time to relax. Your biggest complaints are some of the most superficial crap ever. BOTH sacrifice their youth and hobbies....and if in the marriage they are striving to live it as biblicaly as they can, they both sacrifice EVERYTHING. You have a very secular, cynical view of marriage.

Click to expand...

Oh, I have to come back to this: Are you SERIOUS??

Men! In most cases of existing marriages, in the western world —
women have a one-day white-dress party followed by, if they are lucky, a week’s vacation, then it's down to business making a home for you
women still change their names to yours, and you just expect that without thought, but she thinks about it, believe me
women still leave their homes for you, leave their families for you
women still get pregnant for you, and the pregnancies change both their bodies and their lives
they may become overweight, and if they do, you will likely complain, but you were not the one who gave up your body to bear the children
nor were you the one to bear the pain of childbirth
and even the children they bore have your name, usually not hers
women still cook, clean, bring up children
women often still work to assure that you have a place and a time to relax
women still maintain family relations and communications for you
often, women do all this at the sacrifice of their youth, beauty, and hobbies

I don't get where this is a "secular" view of marriage. It's the TRUTH. I don't have kids and waiting a long time to get married, however...his family was really upset when I didn't change my last name. He didn't care but, since most of my professional credentials were in my maiden name, I kept it.

I've been told we don't have a "real" marriage because I kept my maiden name and we have separate bank accounts.

A woman tends to give up almost everything including her identity (name) when she marries. It's not "secular", it's the truth. Even in the bible you can see that...go re-read the story of Ruth. She gave up her home and family for her husband's family. Leah and Rachel did it, Rebecca did it.

It's not a "secular" view of anything...and I have yet to see the poster refute any of it. If you truly want to state it's a "secular" POV, then refute it...WITH biblical citations, OK?

RedPonyDriver said:

I don't get where this is a "secular" view of marriage. It's the TRUTH. I don't have kids and waiting a long time to get married, however...his family was really upset when I didn't change my last name. He didn't care but, since most of my professional credentials were in my maiden name, I kept it.

I've been told we don't have a "real" marriage because I kept my maiden name and we have separate bank accounts.

A woman tends to give up almost everything including her identity (name) when she marries. It's not "secular", it's the truth. Even in the bible you can see that...go re-read the story of Ruth. She gave up her home and family for her husband's family. Leah and Rachel did it, Rebecca did it.

It's not a "secular" view of anything...and I have yet to see the poster refute any of it. If you truly want to state it's a "secular" POV, then refute it...WITH biblical citations, OK?

Click to expand...

Once again, BOTH people in a marriage leave their family, and sacrifice everything for it. THIS is biblical marriage.

Genesis 2:18 said:

Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

Click to expand...

Genesis 2:24 said:

“Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

Click to expand...

Genesis 3:16 said:

To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

Click to expand...

Titus 2:1-8 said:

But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine. Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

Click to expand...

Ephesians 5:22-33 said:

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 11:8-9 said:

For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Click to expand...

The reason I call your view of marriage secular, is because you complain about things dictated in the bible, in regards to the genders and marriage itself.

The reason I call your view of marriage secular, is because you complain about things dictated in the bible, in regards to the genders and marriage itself.

Click to expand...

That's funny... the Bible states that in God's kingdom, there is neither male nor female, etc. The Bible never asks one gender to do anything that it does not also expect from the other gender in another verse. The truth is, if we removed anything to do with marriage from the Bible and all treated each other like brothers and sisters in Christ, then marriage would be much more mutual, and is the way I believe God intended it to be.

ValleyGal said:

That's funny... the Bible states that in God's kingdom, there is neither male nor female, etc. The Bible never asks one gender to do anything that it does not also expect from the other gender in another verse. The truth is, if we removed anything to do with marriage from the Bible and all treated each other like brothers and sisters in Christ, then marriage would be much more mutual, and is the way I believe God intended it to be.

Click to expand...

Well, first off, sadly, we're not in God's kingdom yet. Secondly, you're basically making the whole point that I have been trying to regarding both sides doing and sacrificing in marriage.

I had to work. If I hadn't provided for my family I was worse than an infidel. In America pastors get a jet, but the Dutch keep their cents in their pocket, so the preacher doesn't get anything and the wife has to work. Simple as that and it was obedience too. I asked him to please become a plumber and leave those people but he didn't want to, God called him.
And the devil destroyed our marriage, but we're still gonna save this country.

From Broken Ghost:
The reason I call your view of marriage secular, is because you complain about things dictated in the bible, in regards to the genders and marriage itself.

Who is "complaining"...the OP with the list stated the things a woman does when she gets married. It seems that women are called upon to make the greater sacrifice for the man.

Not to mention...every couple has their own marriage dynamic. If you were to survey 100 or more married couples, even Christian couples, you'd find that every one of them works differently, and not from a "strict" biblical outline.

There is no harsh dividing line between "secular" and Christian. They are intertwined.

RedPonyDriver said:

Who is "complaining"...the OP with the list stated the things a woman does when she gets married. It seems that women are called upon to make the greater sacrifice for the man.

Click to expand...

Lol I thought women only had to love their husband and obey and he should lay his life down. It's of course much easier to do what you want and demand the woman lays her life down for you.
The proverbs 31 woman:
She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the Merchants.

She was a fantastic entrepreneur/wholesaler and landowner. She was a good manager of her human resources both at home and in the fields. Oh, yes, she worked outside the home. One thing that gets missed about her: her husband was respected at the city gate. If anything his wife did or owned was disrespectful or emasculating, he would not be so well respected, so we know it was perfectly respectable for her to do what she did by working, owning land, and managing several businesses. And chances are, he was a man who was good to her and supported her in her activities.

Women and men. Different emotionally and physically. Complimentary to each other. What one doesn't have the other provides and vice-versa. Both equally important in society as well as the family. A Godly woman and a Godly man joined together in purpose is an unbeatable pair.

There are gender roles built into nature itself. Men and women are different.

However, biblical marriage is not about who makes the money, who cooks the food, who cleans the house etc.

Biblical marriage is defined by complete self-giving sacrificial love on the part of both Husband and Wife.

Divorce is high because love is cold and selfish in both men and women.

Devorim said:

Men! In most cases of existing marriages, in the western world —

• women have a one-day white-dress party followed by, if they are lucky, a week’s vacation, then it's down to business making a home for you
• women still change their names to yours, and you just expect that without thought, but she thinks about it, believe me
• women still leave their homes for you, leave their families for you
• women still get pregnant for you, and the pregnancies change both their bodies and their lives
• they may become overweight, and if they do, you will likely complain, but you were not the one who gave up your body to bear the children
• nor were you the one to bear the pain of childbirth
• and even the children they bore have your name, usually not hers
• women still cook, clean, bring up children
• women often still work to assure that you have a place and a time to relax
• women still maintain family relations and communications for you
• often, women do all this at the sacrifice of their youth, beauty, and hobbies

So think before you complain.

Click to expand...

Well.. actually a lot of this is not really true anymore, or at least not as true as it once was.

Not saying that men are any better, but the point being, marriage is under heavy attack from all sides in our culture. People, in general, are less willing to sacrifice for each other, even in marriages

TransmitterTech said:

I am NOT a chauvinist pig and I love my wife but I really believe that a good number of divorces are due to women not fulfilling their God-given place in life. I'm not saying that all women must do this, some must work and there are other circumstances but I think a great deal of the problems have to do with having two "chiefs".

Click to expand...

I honestly agree- I know God set out a role for me, as a female in a Christian marriage, but with society as it is, it's hard to know how to do all of the roles that I feel led by God to do.

I know that as part of my ministry/my cross, God has called me into a marriage. I daydream sometimes how much easier it would be if I had taken the call to be a nun, but that's not my cross. I wish had the time and energy to keep the house clean, cook the meals, do the laundry, and think of all of my husband's wants and needs ahead of time. Why? Well I know that my husband feels loved and knows that I love him through actions and I'm okay with that. (He is great at complimenting me on a good meal, keeping the house decorated nicely so that it feels like a home, and knowing how to fix things.)

At the same time, I know God has called me to carry my cross as a teacher. Even before I knew my calling as a wife, I knew I would be a teacher. Teaching is an extremely demanding job from late August to mid-June. It's non-stop working sometimes 12 hours a day, not sleeping because you are worried about a student, a parent, a lesson, and you give your life to your students (and I teach around 137 students). I couldn't do my ministry as well as I do unless I worked this hard.

So the two conflict - there are only 24 hours in a day, only 7 days a week, only 2 days off a week. And I'm one person.

There's a lot to do- I don't want to fail either calling God has given me.

Eek! This is not how every woman thinks!

Devorim said:

Men! In most cases of existing marriages, in the western world —

• women have a one-day white-dress party followed by, if they are lucky, a week’s vacation, then it's down to business making a home for you

Click to expand...

Men are a part of creating that home, otherwise you could not call it a home. While I might take charge of decorating and knowing how to get the house cleaned up, I would be lost without my husband's help with choosing out the best furniture and then lugging it all into the house since I'm not as strong, and for that matter lugging EVERYTHING that is heavy for me. When it comes to some of the messiest things, he jumps in to do it for me. Our home is OUR home because we both work on making it a home.

• women still change their names to yours, and you just expect that without thought, but she thinks about it, believe me

Click to expand...

We do it because of tradition and much more of that. My husband would have been bothered if I didn't change my name, but I don't think it would have ruined our marriage. (Our best man and one of my bridesmaid were married - she did not change her last name and they are very happy.) I chose to take my husband's last name because I wanted us to have a way to show we are together (a person realizes two people are related when they have the same last name). I might not be a blood-relative, but at least I have a name to share. (And to be honest, I had a 10 letter last name and now I'm down to 4 letters - it's awesome!) If it bothers a lady, they should talk to their spouse about it and hopefully things will work out. (I have another friend who out right refused to change her last name, but after having 2 kids with her husband, she gladly changed her name - she wanted them to be a family in the sense of having that in common.)

• women still leave their homes for you, leave their families for you

Click to expand...

This is not how it worked at all in my case. Hubby moved 13 hours East to be with me. We live near my family. His parents LOVE and ADORE me and get why we live where we do.

• women still get pregnant for you, and the pregnancies change both their bodies and their lives

Click to expand...

Can't hold this against men. This is how God designed our bodies. Don't like it? Take it up with Him. If a husband emotional abuses his wife because of how he doesn't like her body, then she can put blame on him. Otherwise this is not true.

• they may become overweight, and if they do, you will likely complain, but you were not the one who gave up your body to bear the children

Click to expand...

Men become overweight too and wives complain. God has called us to treat our bodies like temples. I've never been pregnant, so I don't feel like I can argue this, but I have put on weight since being married and my husband still finds me attractive and beautiful. As far as I know he will continue to do so even after I bear a child.

• women still cook, clean, bring up children

Click to expand...

Not is most modern families - even Christian families. I grew up in a traditional Russian family, so yes my Mom took on the main role of parenting. But my father had no issue stepping in when it came to teaching me how to fix things, how to use a computer, how to do math, etc. My Dad parented me too, while expecting the women to cook and clean.

• women still maintain family relations and communications for you

Click to expand...

Because it is just not that important to men. We think we have to send gifts and cards and what not to appease our relatives. So men get use to letting us handle that since we are so good at it. I started behaving like that myself- doing it because that's what women do, but instead now I let my husband know that he needs to get a gift or a card and he's held responsible for taking care of his side of the family and I take care of mine. Unless we make it clear to our husband's about these kinds of expectations, they will just follow suit.

• often, women do all this at the sacrifice of their youth, beauty, and hobbies

Click to expand...

God never said we had to stop taking care of ourselves for our husbands- we make ourselves fall into that trap. I still decide when I need to exercise, what I want to eat, and how I practice my faith to keep myself youthful. I still go out and buy beauty products to take care of myself (I spend way more money and time on this than my husband too - he needs 3 bath products, 1 deodorant, and 1 cologne, while I have probably over 100+ products). I still have hobbies and he never complains when I want to do one of my hobbies.

So think before you complain.

Click to expand...

It is good to follow the wisdom that we know.