Depression from a spirit filled & bible truth perspective

Frogster · Apr 1, 2015

ByTheSpirit said:
Depressing to you, but perhaps you haven't read 2 Corinthians where Paul said he GLORIED in his weaknesses... so again where does depression fit into that? You are interjecting your own thoughts and feelings into the man's story.

You find persecution depressing and stuff, but I hardly doubt Paul did because every time the man suffered the text says at some point he was praising. So no, no depression sorry to tell ya

does this feel good?

11 To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless, 12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.

if you try to omit the pain, it takes away from the point of the weakness, if Paul just gloried, he would not be weak. lets not go by just half of the equation.

com7fy8 · Apr 1, 2015

Frogster said:
does this feel good?

11 To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless, 12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.

if you try to omit the pain, it takes away from the point of the weakness, if Paul just gloried, he would not be weak. lets not go by just half of the equation.

He could have suffered physical pain, but be blessed spiritually in God's grace.

"And He said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (2 Corinthians 12:9-10)

So, Paul does not say that he takes "pain" in his troubles, but "pleasure". In God's grace we are in His own love having Heaven's own goodness and pleasantness so nicer and more satisfying than any pleasure which is physical of this life.

So, if there was pain, I can see it was only physical, as much as Paul was submitting to God in His grace with His personal guiding "continually" (Isaiah 58:11). There is a big difference between being saddened in God's love and being in the pain of my own ego > in God's love I can be saddened and disappointed because I care about what other people are going through; but in my own ego I can be getting depressed about how things are not going my own way. And the suffering in love is not nasty and messy and negative like my own ego's suffering can be. In love, I keep on having hope for people who are wrong and suffering > love "hopes all things", we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

In God's grace we can be angry and frustrated and somehow "depressed" about how things are going, but in His grace we are being guided what to do about it, including to love and do good for ones who are even enemies.

So, depression in human ego is not the same as some kind of "depression" in God's love. And we all have been born in sin; so any of us can have emotional trouble which has its roots in sin. Because in sinning we are involved with "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) This spirit of disobedience does have emotions, and those Satanic emotions are cruel and driving and won't take no for an answer . . . unhumble, bossy, dictatorial . . . often driving us to seek some physical pleasure to make us feel better.

But the emotions of God's love are gentle and humble like Jesus, with very pleasant rest and perfect satisfaction . . . even while we go through things that are very hard but they are truly "for Christ's sake" like Paul says.

So, am I always thankful and enjoying God? No. Yes, I can be reacting negatively to people and my circumstances . . . instead of first trusting God; and as much as I am like this, I can suffer deeply and be joy-dead. So, I take this to God, in prayer. And yes I need to have compassion on others who are suffering deeply . . . not to criticize and guilt-trip them but take them with me to God in prayer!!!

znr · Apr 1, 2015

Now now.

ByTheSpirit said:
You are not ready for this conversation and this thread is not the place to have this conversation. So study up some on what faith really is and then we can talk, okay?

Souldier · Apr 1, 2015

ByTheSpirit said:
Depends on the definition of abundance. I think you are confusing "abundant life" (John 10:10) that Jesus promises with that of worldliness and wealth.

I agree Paul wasn't trying to have abundant life in that regard, but he HAD abundant life. Read the context of despairing of life....

2 Corinthians 1:8-9 ESV

For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself. Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead.

Their circumstances was given to them TO MAKE THEM rely on God and not themselves. So even if it was "depression" and I still don't think it was. If it was though it was so that they would commit themselves to God. They did and he delivered them.

As I have been saying all along, commit yourself to God. Focus on him, pray always, praise always. He will see you through.

Either way the purpose of this discussion...

Depression, meds, human medical sciences is dealt with in that context: trust in God.

I wasn't saying that John 10:10 referred to abundant wealth, but i was suggesting that some preachers do interpret it that way. I was suggesting that they may be confusing the scripture. YOu said that God delivered paul so he would learn to rely on God, yet thats not the end of the scripture, paul said God delivered them and continues to deliver them. So perhaps paul's struggle never completely ended but neither did Gods help.

Alithis · Apr 1, 2015

Frogster said:
But the verse does show for his frequent ailments, Paul perscibed wine in a medicinal manner. It says ailments in the plural indicating it was more than just his stomache, or he would not have said ailmentS His stomach issues could be emotional as there is a direct connection with the 2, there is even text to prove that.

But that was not the verse about Tim I had in mind saying he might have been depressed. Paul said I remember you tears, and he told him he was not given a spirit of fear, indicating that Tim had fear issues, he told Tim to be strong in grace , meaning Tim might have been timid, Paul told him not to be ashamed. All indicating that Tim had emotional things. Paul told the Corinthians to....

10 When Timothy comes, see that you put him at ease among you, for he is doing the work of the Lord, as I am. 11 So let no one despise him. Help him on his way in peace, that he may return to me, for I am expecting him with the brothers.

So bottom line, Tim seems to have been timid, and cried etc. The exhortations show this, if Tim were not of these issues, Paul would not say what. The verses in 1 Tim 2:1-13 are also there for a reason.

What I did with the Tim verses is called mirror reading when the Bible is read, sometimes that must be done to draw a conclusion. I think he may have had times of depression or was melancholic.

fear .. as in timidity
ailments as in a mild digestion problem .. ,nothing to do with an intense depression.
what are you trying to say.. people should become abusers of alcohol ?of course not ..that would be misrepresenting what you said.. which is a stretch at best

Souldier · Apr 1, 2015

Alithis said:
fear .. as in timidity
ailments as in a mild digestion problem .. ,nothing to do with an intense depression.
what are you trying to say.. people should become abusers of alcohol ?of course not ..that would be misrepresenting what you said.. which is a stretch at best

No one knows what timothy suffered from but we do know that paul prescribed medication. Its all speculation. Its also speculation to suggest that if someone doesn't receive miraculous healing then its because they have weak faith. What about the faith of the elders? Didn't James say that the prayers of the elders would heal the sick? If a person is not healed then why dont we blame the church elders instead? Why blame the person who is already burdened? Why not blame the elders instead?

Another question- Why did God give some the power to heal, and give others no power to heal? Is it because some have stronger faith? Or is it instead to edify the church? If someone receives the gift of healing isn't it to help the church and not because they had strong faith? And if the point to having gifts was to help others then why do we instead hurt them by questioning their faith and casting a black shadow of doubt over them? Would it not be better for all members to be of the same mind and to love each other as themself? How can we be of the same mind if one's faith is better than another persons faith?

Souldier · Apr 2, 2015

In addition to what i just said, i dont think we should blame anyone. I think we should just be of the same mind and seek to walk in love and brotherhood, praying together, persevering together and fighting the good fight of faith, as paul teaches timothy and according to those things. If i am healed then i am healed but if i am not then i am not. Why should i worry about such things when my focus should be on heaven instead? In heaven there will be no need for healing because there will be no more sorrow, pain or death. To be one with others is more precious than to be healed of some illness.

Alithis · Apr 2, 2015

Souldier said:
No one knows what timothy suffered from but we do know that paul prescribed medication. Its all speculation. Its also speculation to suggest that if someone doesn't receive miraculous healing then its because they have weak faith. What about the faith of the elders? Didn't James say that the prayers of the elders would heal the sick? If a person is not healed then why dont we blame the church elders instead? Why blame the person who is already burdened? Why not blame the elders instead?

Another question- Why did God give some the power to heal, and give others no power to heal? Is it because some have stronger faith? Or is it instead to edify the church? If someone receives the gift of healing isn't it to help the church and not because they had strong faith? And if the point to having gifts was to help others then why do we instead hurt them by questioning their faith and casting a black shadow of doubt over them? Would it not be better for all members to be of the same mind and to love each other as themself? How can we be of the same mind if one's faith is better than another persons faith?

just to clarify ..and it is important to... no one has said any one has weak faith or strong faith lots of faith or little faith .in fact i believe we need only that which God has given us .. the measure of it given to us all .. and with it , we can move mountains .i believe that .. because HE said so .

Messy · Apr 2, 2015

Alithis said:
just to clarify ..and it is important to... no one has said any one has week faith or strong faith lots of faith or little faith .in fact i believe we need only that which God has given us .. the measure of it given to us all .. and with it , we can move mountains .i believe that .. because HE said so .

Yes, when I felt that accusation because of faith preaching I just said: Lord I believe, help my unbelief. Peter had little faith, yet Jesus pulled him out of the water.

Alithis · Apr 2, 2015

Another question- Why did God give some the power to heal, and give others no power to heal? Is it because some have stronger faith? Or is it instead to edify the church? If someone receives the gift of healing isn't it to help the church and not because they had strong faith? And if the point to having gifts was to help others then why do we instead hurt them by questioning their faith and casting a black shadow of doubt over them? Would it not be better for all members to be of the same mind and to love each other as themself? How can we be of the same mind if one's faith is better than another persons faith?

i believe he gives the gift of heeling to them that believe HE heals .. and to them which are available to do his will when he is doing it . As none of us can heal but we can administer "HIS" healing .
but then this topic is not about "healing" but about how to avoid falling victim to a despondency so great that it overwhelms us i the first place .

im not sure why some are so centered on one tiny verse where Paul says timothy should have a little wine for his stomachs sake ( which again only implies aiding digestion as tannins in red wine is known to be quiet helpful that way) And yet they are throwing that up as justification for what ? well ,actually, for trusting mans chemical medications more the Gods word .
and they throw up that one verse ..
Honestly ? its like saying of the 99.99% of words in the scripture about trusting God we will only listen to the 00.01% about the one time some one suggested a little wine .. and it was not for chronic depression to boot ..

Souldier · Apr 2, 2015

Alithis said:
just to clarify ..and it is important to... no one has said any one has weak faith or strong faith lots of faith or little faith .in fact i believe we need only that which God has given us .. the measure of it given to us all .. and with it , we can move mountains .i believe that .. because HE said so .

I think that the mountain is symbolic of something, i am not certain but i dont think it necessarily refers to healing miracles. However i admit that i dont know.

Matthew 21:21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen.

Revelation 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Souldier · Apr 2, 2015

Alithis said:
i believe he gives the gift of heeling to them that believe HE heals .. and to them which are available to do his will when he is doing it . As none of us can heal but we can administer "HIS" healing .
but then this topic is not about "healing" but about how to avoid falling victim to a despondency so great that it overwhelms us i the first place .

im not sure why some are so centered on one tiny verse where Paul says timothy should have a little wine for his stomachs sake ( which again only implies aiding digestion as tannins in red wine is known to be quiet helpful that way) And yet they are throwing that up as justification for what ? well ,actually, for trusting mans chemical medications more the Gods word .
and they throw up that one verse ..
Honestly ? its like saying of the 99.99% of words in the scripture about trusting God we will only listen to the 00.01% about the one time some one suggested a little wine .. and it was not for chronic depression to boot ..

You haven't really addressed my post. Why are some posters focused on having faith to heal our self when its the elders prayers which are supposed to do the healing? (according to James) Im only trying to get at some pure doctrine. People are suggesting that if we just have enough faith then we can be healed of depression, but im suggesting that is not sound doctrine and it actually hurts people more and feeds their depression more. There is a reason for my debate, i am focused on depression. I think its helpful to not use faith as a cure for depression but instead to pray for onea nother, and to promote peace in the soul by not casting stumbling blocks of doubt and fear in the way of people who suffer depression. The scripture is clear, its the elders prayers who will help the sick, not the faith of the person who is afflicted. I may not have all the answers but i do know that what im reading in this thread is not the answer either.

Joy · Apr 2, 2015

I personally am saddened that this thread as gone off topic

Also I see all the comments about depression as helpless.

The Gospel of Jesus brings hope and encouragement this is what we should be sharing not a message of despair.

Souldier · Apr 2, 2015

MollieSue said:
I personally am saddened that this thread as gone off topic

Also I see all the comments about depression as helpless.

The Gospel of Jesus brings hope and encouragement this is what we should be sharing not a message of despair.

What i have shared has helped me in my struggle with depression. I wanted to share it thinking perhaps it may help someone. Im sorry you dont find it helpful. My intent is about hope. The examples of the prophets and apostles suffering bouts of depression actually gave me hope. It made me feel like i was not abandoned by God but that there was purpose in my struggles. I am no longer bound to depression and i have learned to manage it. There is hope.

ByTheSpirit · Apr 2, 2015

MollieSue said:
I personally am saddened that this thread as gone off topic

Also I see all the comments about depression as helpless.

The Gospel of Jesus brings hope and encouragement this is what we should be sharing not a message of despair.

Yes, I agree... I think this demonstrates the power of humanism in the church. It is much easier to say the doctor will handle it, because the other requires great faith and perseverance.

IMHO

ByTheSpirit · Apr 2, 2015

Alithis said:
just to clarify ..and it is important to... no one has said any one has weak faith or strong faith lots of faith or little faith .in fact i believe we need only that which God has given us .. the measure of it given to us all .. and with it , we can move mountains .i believe that .. because HE said so .

This is exactly what I have been trying to say and have said. That God works with our measure of faith, not against it.

Alithis · Apr 2, 2015

Souldier said:
You haven't really addressed my post. Why are some posters focused on having faith to heal our self when its the elders prayers which are supposed to do the healing? (according to James) Im only trying to get at some pure doctrine. People are suggesting that if we just have enough faith then we can be healed of depression, but im suggesting that is not sound doctrine and it actually hurts people more and feeds their depression more. There is a reason for my debate, i am focused on depression. I think its helpful to not use faith as a cure for depression but instead to pray for onea nother, and to promote peace in the soul by not casting stumbling blocks of doubt and fear in the way of people who suffer depression. The scripture is clear, its the elders prayers who will help the sick, not the faith of the person who is afflicted. I may not have all the answers but i do know that what im reading in this thread is not the answer either.

no, the topic of why some posters are focused on this or that is not the topic of this thread .
the topic of this thread is that God wills to and can bring anyone out of the deepest sorrow and fufill his promise to give us LIFE and that abundantly .. for the lord Jesus said it is why he came ..
and he gives us this awsome HOPE that "if we believe .. all things are possible .
Hs word is faiuthful and true .. believe it, apply it,abide in him and see .
Hos word will save you . and keep you from falling into the proverbial slough of despair

and if you have fallen in already.. his word (JESUS ) is more then able to lift you out and set your feet back upon solid ground .

Alithis · Apr 2, 2015

Job8 said:
You are correct. That is the remedy. But too many Christians and churches have been hoodwinked into looking for secular and humanistic solutions.

yes and i think that is a tragedy because where has looking to secular and humanistic solutions got people ... truthfully ..

it has eased some little suffering via a new problem of drug dependency introduced int their lives.

I know that ,out of context , that sounds harsh and some will promote it from a non contextual view .. and that is sad .

but its the truth ... the world will take your sorrow and blanket it in chemicals which ,long term harm your body ... one ailment traded for another ..

the Lord Jesus ..if we will put our trust wholly in him ..
will trade us ...
beauty for the ashes of our lives ,

the oil of joy for our mourning ..

and a garment of Praise for the spirit of heaviness

That we might be trees of righteousness the planting of the lord, unto HIS glory .

whether it be a saddened mood for this day or a slough of despondency sunk in a seeming blackness .. the LORD JESUS is ABLE to lift you out again .of that ,there is no doubt .for his word is faithful and true .

and you will join with those who sing .. I cried unto the lord with my voice and he heard me and answered me .. he is my Glory and the lifter up of my head . :prayer:

Alithis · Apr 2, 2015

MollieSue said:
I personally am saddened that this thread as gone off topic

Also I see all the comments about depression as helpless.

The Gospel of Jesus brings hope and encouragement this is what we should be sharing not a message of despair.

threads do that

..but .. lets bring it back on topic

..

i share now the words of a man of God one cannot ignore without some considerable effort ..

" The greatest weakness in the world is unbelief. The greatest power is the faith that worketh by love. Love, mercy, and grace are bound eternally to faith. There is no fear in love and no question as to being caught up when Jesus comes. The world is filled with fear, torment, remorse, and brokenness, but faith and love are sure to overcome. “Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:5). God hath established the earth and humanity on the lines of faith. As you come into line, fear is cast out, the Word of God comes into operation and you find bedrock. The way to overcome is to believe Jesus is the Son of God. The commandments are wrapped up in it.

When there is a fidelity between you and God and the love of God is so real that you feel you could do anything for Jesus, all the promises are yea and amen to those who believe. Your life is centred there. Always overcoming what is in the world.

Who keepeth the commandments? The born of God. “Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world” (1 John 4:4). They that believe, love. When did He love us? When we were in the mire. What did He say? Thy sins are forgiven thee. Why did He say it? Because He loved us. What for? That He might bring many sons into glory. His object? That we might be with Him forever. All the pathway is an education for this high vocation and calling. This hidden mystery of love to us, the undeserving! For our sins the double blessing. “...whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory...even our faith” (1 John 5:4). He who believeth — to believe is to overcome. On the way to Emmaus Jesus, beginning from Moses and all the prophets, interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself (Luke 24:27). He is the root! In Him is life. When we receive Christ, we receive God and the promises (Galatians 3:29), that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. I am heir to all the promises because I believe. A great heirship! I overcome because I believe the truth. The truth makes me free. " - Smith wigglesworth-

Alithis · Apr 2, 2015

do not be distracted by one misquoted out of context verse about wine for a stomach ache ...
look to the word of god and be overwhelmed with Hope ..put your faith in HIS word..grasp a hold and do not let go .but persevere,, for whatever state you are in..

you deliverer Comes
-ONLY BELIEVE-

Psalm 34:17
When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles.

Psalm 50:15
And call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.

Psalm 34:4
I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.

James 5:16 esv
Therefore, confess your sins(faults ,failings weaknesses) to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Galatians 5:1
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

John 8:32
And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

2 Peter 2:9
Then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials.............

John 15:7
If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Psalm 40:17
As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!

Matthew 10:1
And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.

Psalm 40:9-10
I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation; behold, I have not restrained my lips, as you know, O Lord. I have not hidden your deliverance within my heart; I have spoken of your faithfulness and your salvation; I have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation.

--such words of hope and faithfulness go on and on and on .. the lord is YES and AMEN.

take heart ,be of good cheer .for if the lord is with you ,who can be against you .

Depression from a spirit filled & bible truth perspective

Galatians is the best!

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