Smoking, drugs, piercings...etc. Are these a sin or against Gods law?

NothingIsImpossible said:

So we have a missionary friend whos in her late 20s and she has many piercings and a tattoo. We have another missionary friend who when out on the field drinks alcohol ALOT. TO the point of being drunk every day. He even is having liver issues now.

So what is everyones view on when the bible talks about this:


There are other verses of course that talk about this stuff but it seems the christian world is very split on it. And in some cases they may be for one thing, but against another. Like they may be against smoking, but ok with eating at McDonalds every day. I've told people all these things I feel are against what God says we should do with our bodies, our temples. As it points out in the verse above.

I think probably that hardest thing to accept I've noticed is when it comes to eating. With all the convenience we have today when it comes to food in america its obviously hard sometimes to avoid a quick meal. I'm guilty of going to Dennys. Although over the years I've switched to places like Chipotles which is more healthy (though the sodium is bit higher).

In the end adults can do what they want. I personally don't hold anything against anyone that lets say smokes. I may not like that habit but it doesn't mean I dislike the person. Granted I usually don't hand out with them because the smoke bothers my asthma. BTW I m undecided on if its a sin really. Not wanted by God, yes. Sin? Unsure. Views?

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I think that anything that controls you is a sin. If you cannot just put it down and walk away for good. Then it controls you.
I agree with you that we should love everyone without reservation. But, There are going to be many that I am sure we aren't going to like, and that's okay. My loving someone else is base on who I am in retrospect to Chris Jesus reigning in my heart. My liking or disliking someone is based on whether they are likable of not. It has nothing what so ever to do with loving them. I love all of the members of my family. Yet, I certainly do not like each of them.
I think that we need to help these individuals out that are in our circle of friends, that are struggling with habits that are becoming a health hazard to them. At the very least, give them the moral support that they require to see some sort of resolve thru to completion.
God bless you Brother

I would say that these things are permissible in moderation.

If you do drugs or drink alcohol to the point where they control your life or cause lasting damage then this would be excessive and could be a sin.

I think it is fine for a woman have their ears pierced but they shouldn't have piercings all over the body because this would be approaching vanity which can be sinful.

When it comes to tattoos I would just say people should really think about their decision for a long time before committing. They should ask themselves what they will think about the tattoo when they are 80. I will probably never get a tattoo but the only design I would even consider would be a cross because I know it will have meaning for my entire life. The Old Testament speaks against tattoos but God was establishing laws to differentiate the Israelites from the surrounding Pagans.

NothingIsImpossible said:

So we have a missionary friend whos in her late 20s and she has many piercings and a tattoo. We have another missionary friend who when out on the field drinks alcohol ALOT. TO the point of being drunk every day. He even is having liver issues now.

So what is everyones view on when the bible talks about this:


There are other verses of course that talk about this stuff but it seems the christian world is very split on it. And in some cases they may be for one thing, but against another. Like they may be against smoking, but ok with eating at McDonalds every day. I've told people all these things I feel are against what God says we should do with our bodies, our temples. As it points out in the verse above.

I think probably that hardest thing to accept I've noticed is when it comes to eating. With all the convenience we have today when it comes to food in america its obviously hard sometimes to avoid a quick meal. I'm guilty of going to Dennys. Although over the years I've switched to places like Chipotles which is more healthy (though the sodium is bit higher).

In the end adults can do what they want. I personally don't hold anything against anyone that lets say smokes. I may not like that habit but it doesn't mean I dislike the person. Granted I usually don't hand out with them because the smoke bothers my asthma. BTW I m undecided on if its a sin really. Not wanted by God, yes. Sin? Unsure. Views?

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Rom 14:10-23 KJV
(10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
(12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
(13) Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
(14) I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
(15) But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
(16) Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
(17) For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(18) For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
(19) Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
(20) For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
(21) It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
(22) Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
(23) And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

whatsoever is not of faith is sin

faith is believing God

whatsoever is not of faith <believing God> is sin

whatsoever is not of believing God is sin

sin, at it's core, is simply not believing God. If God tells you not to judge other people, and you refuse to believe him and judge them anyway, your sin is equal to their own even though the outward manifestation of that sin (smoking, drinking, gluttony, etc) looks completely different to the natural eye. There are no 'big' sins and 'little' sins from God's perspective; there is only faith and unbelief. A man who steals doesn't believe God's promise that he provides, putting his own judgment above God's in this area; a man who indulges in 'excesses of the flesh'puts his own judgment above God's in this area; and a man who judges another also puts his own judgment above God's in this area. Remember that we don't have a ministry of correction; we have a ministry of reconciliation, where we are to strive to help others come into a closer relationship with God so that HE can correct them according to his own priority as to what transgressions of the law they need to focus on at any given time.

1Co 6:15-20 KJV
(15) Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
(16) What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
(17) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
(18) Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
(19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The context of the verses above is not about smoking or drinking or gluttony; it's about fornication. And we can see from verse 18 that fornication is more deadly in consequence than other sins in that it is a sin against one's own body; this does not make it a more weighty sin in God's view than other sins that a man commits on the outside of his body.

Mat 7:18-20 KJV
(18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Gal 5:22-23 KJV
(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

We are to judge the effectiveness of a person's ministry by the evidence (or lack thereof) of the presence of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance - not by our own judgment of the degree of sin in their lives based on our "natural sight"; for who can be qualified to be a minister for the Lord if transgressions of the law are the standard, since 'if any man offends in one point of the law, he is guilty of all'?

Piercings are decorations; substances can lead people to harmful social behavior. Big difference IMO.

In the examples you described, people had put themselves in the positions of representing God. Timothy set up criteria for elders -- that there needs to be a clear message, ethical approach, and respect for who God is.

Remember how Jesus was criticized for befriending tax collectors -- people known to cheat poor citizens by overtaxing and pocketing the money...or at least being in the position to. It was not wrong to have that occupation, but led to mistrust over Jesus' intents.

I would never pick over what people eat because my goodness, so much of the population is using drugs, that a burger or two will barely make a dent. Small criticisms could go on and on. (Pet allergens, fumes, noise pollution, plastic toxicity...)

An additional concern is how our wellness-related actions cost the health care system, which we are all required to pay into -- so in a sense, we rob others of hard-earned money by taxing the system with our liver operations, STD treatments, etc.

But in your question about sin, I think some of these people are trying to appear relevant and real, showing that Christianity is not just for people dressed in heels and ties. I don't think their witness will be as effective, but should they wait until they're all "cleaned up" before they open their mouths? Hard to say.

Within the church it seems fair to set standards, but in street ministry it's basically talking to others about what you appreciate, how wonderful it is to connect with God, and how God reaches out to people who are not perfect.

There are churches full of people who fit the description above. There are churches who make it their mission to reach people where this lifestyle is considered normal. What would you do with them?

I would not focus on perceived sins of other people but concentrate on cultivation the nine fruits of the holy spirit against which is there is no law.
Love
peace
Joy
Faith
Kindness
Goodness
Gentleness
meekness
Temperence

It seemes tempereance, or other versions say 'self-control', being listed last, is the hardest one to have. So lets se...if your missionary friends are showing the first eight, or even a few of the firstfruits, maybe God is convicting them and showing them how to bear the latter. It takes time. Dont rule out that they will come to a point where they see their habits are not holy.

Obviously drugs and smoking harm people, and not just the people themselves. Second hand smoke, for ex., is known to cause things like learning disabilities in children since they get ear infections from it which make it difficult for them to hear language when the language centers of the brain are being formed. We all know how drugs can devastate lives and lead to crime.

As for piercings, I do not see anything against that in the Bible. In fact if an indentured servant wanted to remain with his master after the time of servitude was over there was provision for him to have his ear pierced in a certain way.

Praying for you to be wise and discerning in these areas.

People are always asking what the bibles take is on these sorts of things, and then just go ahead and do them anyway.
My thoughts have always been, that if something is questionable to the point that you are not sure about doing it, or if it is even right to do. Then for you, it probably isn't.

We just don't need to let our fruit inspector badges override the LOVE.

what of Leviticus 19:28?

LoricaLady said:

Obviously drugs and smoking harm people, and not just the people themselves. Second hand smoke, for ex., is known to cause things like learning disabilities in children since they get ear infections from it which make it difficult for them to hear language when the language centers of the brain are being formed. We all know how drugs can devastate lives and lead to crime.

As for piercings, I do not see anything against that in the Bible. In fact if an indentured servant wanted to remain with his master after the time of servitude was over there was provision for him to have his ear pierced in a certain way.

Praying for you to be wise and discerning in these areas.

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It's apples and oranges. While drugs and smoking cause harm, piercings are in a different category. (A bit like tattoos, I guess.)

Smoking: unhealthy habit that can cause bronchitis now and tooth decay, cancer and lung disease later

drinking: within reason. Not a sin unless abused.

Drugs: prescribed for a condition are not a sin unless abused. illegal narcotics are a sin not for the alterred state they bring but for diliberately breaking the "law of the land" it is. The alterred state can hurt your body and tkae you out of your right mind causing you to harm others. The acts caused by the drugs are the sins.

Piercings: not a sin within reason. Too many is unhealthy for your body. the sins would you against yourself. There are certain piercings in private areas that might be sinful because 1) the artist has to look at the area to do it (but so does your doctor?) and 2) they are usually obtained by people who want a little something "kinky" to spice up an already sinful sexual relationship. I don't know if they are sinful if a wife gets one for a husband's enjoyment or vice versa... probably a fine line to balance on.
Tattoos: controversial, I don't think they are sins if they have a positive meaning that can glorify God but I think they are sinful if they are dark and disturbing. certain ones can make you "guilty by association"
so someone covered in them and some of them are hateful symbols and they go to church is going to automatically get labeled by society and so trying to do what a Christian does and reach out to other people for Jesus will be twice as hard.
It can be a blessing though because those who are deemed "rough around the edges" have an easier time reaching the others like themselves...

bluegreysky said:

Smoking: unhealthy habit that can cause bronchitis now and tooth decay, cancer and lung disease later

drinking: within reason. Not a sin unless abused.

Drugs: prescribed for a condition are not a sin unless abused. illegal narcotics are a sin not for the alterred state they bring but for diliberately breaking the "law of the land" it is. The alterred state can hurt your body and tkae you out of your right mind causing you to harm others. The acts caused by the drugs are the sins.

Piercings: not a sin within reason. Too many is unhealthy for your body. the sins would you against yourself. There are certain piercings in private areas that might be sinful because 1) the artist has to look at the area to do it (but so does your doctor?) and 2) they are usually obtained by people who want a little something "kinky" to spice up an already sinful sexual relationship. I don't know if they are sinful if a wife gets one for a husband's enjoyment or vice versa... probably a fine line to balance on.
Tattoos: controversial, I don't think they are sins if they have a positive meaning that can glorify God but I think they are sinful if they are dark and disturbing. certain ones can make you "guilty by association"
so someone covered in them and some of them are hateful symbols and they go to church is going to automatically get labeled by society and so trying to do what a Christian does and reach out to other people for Jesus will be twice as hard.
It can be a blessing though because those who are deemed "rough around the edges" have an easier time reaching the others like themselves...

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bluegreysky:

You used the the term 'within reason'; and I guess another term which could be used also is 'moderation', which the Bible in a broad context uses.

It's often a matter of subjective style. For example, it's customary for musicians and singers at a classical music concert to wear tuxedos and off the shoulder gowns; and it's also customary for musicians and singers at rock concerts - whether Christian rock or not - to wear maybe slashed blue jeans or leather pants and spikey hair, and so also if they have some piercings and ink they would blend quite naturally.

However, piercings and tats can also be a bit 'over the top', sometimes.

And of course what we now know about smoking is relevant, compared to the time when 19th century preacher C H Spurgeon, who smoked.

bluegreysky said:

Tattoos: controversial, I don't think they are sins if they have a positive meaning that can glorify God but I think they are sinful if they are dark and disturbing. ..
It can be a blessing though because those who are deemed "rough around the edges" have an easier time reaching the others like themselves...

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bluegreysky:

PS:

Yes, I reckon you as a tattooed woman would agree that sometimes they can be more of an expression of one's confident adulthood and personality (and even faith) rather than necessarily evidence of supposed anti-social traits of character, right?

Blessings.

Quoting OP:
"We have another missionary friend who when out on the field drinks alcohol ALOT. TO the point of being drunk every day. He even is having liver issues now."

*Have you spoken to your friend about his
drinking/getting drunk?

it's very hard to speak to drunk people about their habits. Even online, they will try and justify it by saying 'well Jesus drank with sinners and prostitutes'.
Because so much alcohol is in their system it clouds their judgement.

bluegreysky said:

Tattoos: controversial, I don't think they are sins if they have a positive meaning that can glorify God but I think they are sinful if they are dark and disturbing. certain ones can make you "guilty by association"
so someone covered in them and some of them are hateful symbols and they go to church is going to automatically get labeled by society and so trying to do what a Christian does and reach out to other people for Jesus will be twice as hard.
It can be a blessing though because those who are deemed "rough around the edges" have an easier time reaching the others like themselves...

Click to expand...

bluegreysky:

I guess that overall you have a positive feeling about getting tattoos?