1000 Year Binding

5thKingdom

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Your posts are farther from truth and most others...yet you are here to teach?

WAKE UP! "Regeneration" as it relates to believers means a newly created human SPIRIT and is not related at all to "resurrection" which is for the human physical BODY.

"Got questions.org" has it right:

"Answer: Another word for regeneration is rebirth, from which we get the phrase “born again.” To be born again is opposed to, and distinguished from, our first birth, when we were conceived in sin.

"Resurrection" as it pertains to believers is perfectly seen in Jesus when the disciples could touch his newly resurrected physical body, yet that same body could eat fish, then walk through a wall.

There is coming a day when those believers in the grave (only their bodies are in the grave; Jesus will be bringing their spirits with their souls from heaven) will hear the shout and trumpet and those dead bodies will come up out of the ground and they will be whole again, Spirit, soul and body. This is what we call a resurrection.



Sir... Saints have understood (since the beginning of the New Testament)
that we are REGENERATED (born again) when we (our souls) are translated
out of Satan's Kingdom into the Kingdom of Heaven.


Saints have understood and TAUGHT this Biblical Truth since the beginning.
And this Truth is still taught in many (or most) traditional Reformed Churches.


So.... the question I asked is WHY.
WHY do you think that the understanding of MOST of the "church" was wrong
(for about 2000 years) and your "new" understanding is correct.


And your response is to talk about the PHYSICAL resurrection?????
I do not know if you CONFLATING the resurrection of our SOUL with
the resurrection of our BODIES is an intentional attempt to deceive
or merely the result of your spiritual ignorance - but it does not matter.
Your position is not Biblical as it cannot harmonize with ALL SCRIPTURE
(which is WHY it was rejected as heresy a very long time ago).


You can continue to intentionally teach a doctrine that is unbiblical but
I wonder if you would be so kind as to explain to me WHEN you think
our SOULS are translates/resurrected/regenerated/born again
OUT of Satan's Kingdom and INTO the "Kingdom of Heaven"....
do you REALLY believe it occurs when our BODIES are resurrected?


Is that what you REALLY believe?
LOL


.
 
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Bible2

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5thKingdom said in post 19:

Saints have understood the nature of the First Resurrection of Regeneration since the beginning of the Christian Kingdom.

Note that while there is the figurative resurrection of initial salvation (e.g. Ephesians 2:5-6), the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be literal in the sense of physical (cf. Romans 8:23). For Revelation 20:5 says "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished", meaning that the 1st resurrection will be the same, physical type of resurrection as will occur sometime after the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-15). For not every dead person is going to be figuratively resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15), and Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead won't be resurrected until sometime after the 1,000 years.

Also, the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical because it won't occur until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), and the resurrection of the church which will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming will be a physical resurrection, just like Jesus' physical resurrection on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58, Philippians 3:20-21, Romans 8:23-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).
 
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5thKingdom

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Note that while there is the figurative resurrection of initial salvation (e.g. Ephesians 2:5-6), the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be literal...........



Sir... when we are born (because of the Fall of Adam) we are born into Satan's Kingdom.


If not for the Sovereign Grace of God, and the Particular Atonement of the Lord Jesus,
we would all live and die in Satan's Kingdom of Babylon.


However, by the Grace of God, some of us are "elected" to salvation.
As we are "born again" (regenerated) our SOULS (but not our bodies)
are translated OUT of the Kingdom of Satan and INTO the Kingdom of God.


If this occurred during the Pre-Flood era... we are included in Daniel's 1st Beast.
If this occurred during the Jewish era... we are included in Daniel's 2nd Beast.
If during the Christian era... we are part of Daniel's 3rd Kingdom.


For you to PRETEND that the "resurrection" of our SOULS (but not our bodies)
is NOT (what's the word you used?) "LITERAL" is to also PRETEND that our SOULS
were NOT "born again" (resurrected) when we were saved....


IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO PRETEND?


Do you REALLY want to pretend that "regeneration" is not the LITERAL
saving (resurrection/new birth) of our soul?


Is that REALLY what you want to pretend?


.
.
 
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iamlamad

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Sir... Saints have understood (since the beginning of the New Testament)
that we are REGENERATED (born again) when we (our souls) are translated
out of Satan's Kingdom into the Kingdom of Heaven.


Saints have understood and TAUGHT this Biblical Truth since the beginning.
And this Truth is still taught in many (or most) traditional Reformed Churches.


So.... the question I asked is WHY.
WHY do you think that the understanding of MOST of the "church" was wrong
(for about 2000 years) and your "new" understanding is correct.


And your response is to talk about the PHYSICAL resurrection?????
I do not know if you CONFLATING the resurrection of our SOUL with
the resurrection of our BODIES is an intentional attempt to deceive
or merely the result of your spiritual ignorance - but it does not matter.
Your position is not Biblical as it cannot harmonize with ALL SCRIPTURE
(which is WHY it was rejected as heresy a very long time ago).


You can continue to intentionally teach a doctrine that is unbiblical but
I wonder if you would be so kind as to explain to me WHEN you think
our SOULS are translates/resurrected/regenerated/born again
OUT of Satan's Kingdom and INTO the "Kingdom of Heaven"....
do you REALLY believe it occurs when our BODIES are resurrected?


Is that what you REALLY believe?
LOL

.


You still have it wrong! Where in the New Testament do you find that the human soul is born again? Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

The regeneration takes place in our SPIRIT, not in our soul. Paul clearly teaches us that our mind (part of our soul) must be renewed to the truth of the Word of God. Our mind does not get "saved." Our feelings do not get "saved." Our will does not get "saved."

Paul said that we (our inner man or spirit man) must keep our body under. The same come be said for our soulish desires. When my flesh screams for a hot fudge sunday, or a large piece of coconut cream pie, it is the cells of my body doing this? No! It is my flesh with my soul together.

"Saints have understood and TAUGHT this Biblical Truth since the beginning."
Here is where truth departed. The truth is, Saints have understood and taught that salvation or regeneration takes place in the human SPIRIT.

"WHY do you think that the understanding of MOST of the "church" was wrong (for about 2000 years) and your "new" understanding is correct."
The truth is, the understanding of most of the church for the last 2000 years HAS BEEN CORRECT. It is YOUR understanding that is not correct.

I suggest you spend time in the commentaries that have been written in church history.

"the First Resurrection of Regeneration"

This phrase is not found anywhere in the bible.

Quote from and old source: The Evangelical Repository, 1851

Q."What is this life and reign of the saints with Christ a thousand years?
A. The text saith, verse 6, "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years;" and "they shall reign with him a thousand years." This life of the sould of them that were beheaded seems to be no other than the life of the body, which they did lay down in the death of the body, and which now in the resurrection they receive again, no more to die to the death of the body. Certainly this life cannot be meant of life spiritual, in opposition to death spiritual, or death in sin; because it is the life of those who were beheaded, to whom it is not granted after death to rise from sin. Besides "lived" here is all one with the resurrection here spoken of, verse 6. They lived, that is they rose again to life; which that it is mean of a corporeal, and not of a spiritual resurrection, there are in the arguments for the one and against the other. And first, these arguments in the text offer themselves for it, viz.
1. Because John speaks of the souls of them that were beheaded, that is, of those that were slain, or dead in body. And he saith, "they lived," that is, they lived again; but the dead in body lived not again but by a resurrection from the death of the body. The argument may thus be framed: - The resurrection of the dead in body is the resurrection of the body, Mat. xxii 31; Mark xii 26, Acts xxiii 6; Cor. xv12 - But the first resurrection is the resurrection of the dead in body, for it is the resurrection of those that were beheaded. Therefore, it is of the body.
2. The text speaks of such a resurrection wherein men live a thousand years after they be raised; which cannot agree to any other life or resurrection but the live and resurrection of the body. Therefore this resurrection is a bodily resurrection.
3. Such a resurrection is meant as happpenth to the rest of the dead after the thousand years are ended, who lived not again till the thousand years were finished; ver.5, which shall be of the body. Therefore this resurrection is of the body also.
4. The men that were beheaded must so live during the thousand years as the rest of the dead lived not all that while; but the rest of the dead lived all that while in soul separated from the body; therefore the men that were beheaded must live all that while in soul joined to the body.
5. The men that were beheaded must so live at the first resurrection as the rest of the dead shall at the second resurrection: but the rest of the dead shall live in body and soul too at the second resurrection; therefore, the men that were beheaded shall live in body and soul too at the first resurrection. But they cannot be said to live in their bodies unless they be raised from their graves, therefore the first resurrection is of the body from the grave. But thus we see that the text itself affords us arguments to prove that this resurrection is a corporal or bodily resurrection. It will also, secondly, afford and yield arguments to prove that it is not a spiritual resurrection;

It is very plain by this old book that back then they believed Revelation's "first resurrection" was speaking of BODILY resurrection.

The truth then, my beliefs are in agreement with church history. It is YOUR belief that is the odd man out here.

Just fess up that you were wrong, learn the truth, and go on.
 
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Interplanner

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Lamad,
you are making way to much distinction between spirit and soul as used in many good NT translations. If you switch over to Greek, you may have a case for distinguishing between 'pneuma' and 'psyche' and 'kardias' etc as in Heb 4, but really the NT moves way too much. Sometimes it speaks of one part of a person as the whole; sometimes not. Sometimes 'pneuma' is simply everything that is not material, I Pet 4. Your case is too weak to bother with.
 
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riverrat

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Lamad,
you are making way to much distinction between spirit and soul as used in many good NT translations. If you switch over to Greek, you may have a case for distinguishing between 'pneuma' and 'psyche' and 'kardias' etc as in Heb 4, but really the NT moves way too much. Sometimes it speaks of one part of a person as the whole; sometimes not. Sometimes 'pneuma' is simply everything that is not material, I Pet 4. Your case is too weak to bother with.
Then why do you bother?
 
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Bible2

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5thKingdom said in post 23:

However, by the Grace of God, some of us are "elected" to salvation.

That's right.

For the elect are those individuals, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved by faith at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it is impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they are shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).
 
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Bible2

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5thKingdom said in post 23:

Do you REALLY want to pretend that "regeneration" is not the LITERAL saving (resurrection/new birth) of our soul?

No, only that Revelation 20:4-6 refers to the still-future, physical resurrection of the church.

Amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of full preterism (2 Timothy 2:18). For claiming that the church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is already present requires that Jesus' 2nd coming has already happened. For the church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 won't happen until the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Also, amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of partial preterism. For claiming that the resurrection of those beheaded by the Antichrist during the future tribulation and their subsequent reigning on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) is already present, requires that the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year worldwide reign during the tribulation (Revelation 13:4-18) has already happened. Also, amillennialism is mistaken because it requires that the devil is currently bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-6), when in fact he is currently walking around on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8), and he won't be bound until the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19 to 20:3).
 
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5thKingdom

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No, only that Revelation 20:4-6 refers to the still-future, physical resurrection of the church.

Amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring...
blah, blah, blah....



Sir...


You can pretend that Satan's 1000 year "binding" is NOT the "Church Age"
but you are only pretending to yourself - and the PROOF is that your "gospel"
cannot be harmonized with ALL SCRIPTURES (only the verses you select).


The VAST MAJORITY of "Christians" have understood the (Biblically correct)
Amillenial position since the "harvest" of Saints OUT of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and INTO the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom.


I will not waste any of my time demonstrating the Truth of Satan being "bound"
during the Church Age... just like I will not waste time showing WHY "works gospels" are false.


.
 
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iamlamad

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Sir...


You can pretend that Satan's 1000 year "binding" is NOT the "Church Age"
but you are only pretending to yourself - and the PROOF is that your "gospel"
cannot be harmonized with ALL SCRIPTURES (only the verses you select).


The VAST MAJORITY of "Christians" have understood the (Biblically correct)
Amillenial position since the "harvest" of Saints OUT of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and INTO the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom.


I will not waste any of my time demonstrating the Truth of Satan being "bound"
during the Church Age... just like I will not waste time showing WHY "works gospels" are false.


.


Then quit wasting everyone's time on this forum with your nonsense. The Amillennial position is an antique position that few bible scholars today believe - and for good reason: it is simply not found in scripture. Truthfully, anyone that thinks Satan has been bound as described in Revelation 20 for the entire church age probably should start over with prophecy 101. John wrote, "that he should deceive the nations no more." Anyone with a lick of common sense KNOWS Satan has been deceiving the nations since there were nations to deceive. One only has to think of Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and Islam to know this.

In fact, it is clear the writer of this post has been deceived into believing a false theory. Clearly Satan is not yet bound.
 
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Straightshot

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Agreed

Amil is false teaching and filled with error

Satan is still operating on the earth today and will do this until he is tossed into the abyss after loosing the Armageddon war which is still pending [Revelation 19:11-21; 20:1-3]

Those who teach that Satan is out of commission today are being deceived and are not realistic about their own surroundings

... the devil is hiding from them, but deceiving them at the same time

He is still "roaring" and taking many
 
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