A Bad "Design"

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PsychoSarah

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It's OK to say "I don't know" when answering a question. No biggie, really.

Any change to the properties of an atom that results in anything other than what we have today would be a less than perfect design.

What about all of the radioactive ones? Heck, there are dangerous isotopes of many elements which have no bearing on the survival of any life on earth and only serve to damage life; so why make that possible?
 
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rush1169

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What about all of the radioactive ones? Heck, there are dangerous isotopes of many elements which have no bearing on the survival of any life on earth and only serve to damage life; so why make that possible?
What would things be like today if radioactivity didn't exist? I don't know either, but it's quite plausible to think we would not exist.
 
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Loudmouth

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What would things be like today if radioactivity didn't exist? I don't know either, but it's quite plausible to think we would not exist.

Why couldn't an omnipotent deity create a universe with humans and no radioactivity? You seem to making stuff up.
 
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PsychoSarah

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What would things be like today if radioactivity didn't exist? I don't know either, but it's quite plausible to think we would not exist.

I am not saying all radioactivity being gone, I am talking about specific radioactive materials that do not promote life in any regard. Some amount of radiation is pretty much necessary, even though it causes damage it also has benefits. But when we get more specific, we find truly unnecessary atom quirks.

But again, this thread is primarily an argument against a specific YEC position, your butterfly effect thing is not relevant. And chances are even if that made humans not exist, it is a deity we are talking about here. Are you really going to limit such a being to having to create the universe in only 1 particular way to get what it wants?
 
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rush1169

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Rush and LM -

You both agree that the poor designs in the human and other animal bodies disprove YEC. That's the point of this thread. I pointed that out two pages ago.

It looks like you'v spent a page violently agreeing.

Papias
I'm actually taking it one step further. Assuming God and assuming the creation event was that of the atom (seems obvious, assuming God even in a YEC scenario), it's plausible that the system of everything is very good. It's plausible that the system cannot be improved upon, especially if the designer has a specific goal. It's plausible that they way things are are exactly as intended when atomic creation took place.

In other words, a designer of a shopping cart could finish up and see that it is exactly as intended while an onlooker could identify several design choices that are flawed by the onlooker's standard, especially if the designer's parameters are unknown to or ignored by the onlooker.

Where LM and I got bogged down was LM's implied and my explicit admission that we have no idea how to have done the atom better (assuming it was designed), especially since we don't know the full scope of the creator's desired outcome.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I'm actually taking it one step further. Assuming God and assuming the creation event was that of the atom (seems obvious, assuming God even in a YEC scenario), it's plausible that the system of everything is very good. It's plausible that the system cannot be improved upon, especially if the designer has a specific goal. It's plausible that they way things are are exactly as intended when atomic creation took place.

In other words, a designer of a shopping cart could finish up and see that it is exactly as intended while an onlooker could identify several design choices that are flawed by the onlooker's standard, especially if the designer's parameters are unknown to or ignored by the onlooker.

Where LM and I got bogged down was LM's implied and my explicit admission that we have no idea how to have done the atom better (assuming it was designed), especially since we don't know the full scope of the creator's desired outcome.

Even in this case, that would still make the claim that the design is PERFECT wrong, because it would have purposeful imperfections. Just because it would be intentional doesn't make it perfect.
 
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rush1169

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Are you really going to limit such a being to having to create the universe in only 1 particular way to get what it wants?

I did not and am not. But it begs the question: What one particular way should it have been done that would be better? I don't know either. I suppose the whole thing could be death-free. . .but I can imagine some real problems with that. I suppose every creature could have a fixed and identical lifespan, but there are some real problems with that too. I can think of many different ways it could have been, but can't think of a way to design something like an atom that does what it does naturally.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I did not and am not. But it begs the question: What one particular way should it have been done that would be better? I don't know either. I suppose the whole thing could be death-free. . .but I can imagine some real problems with that. I suppose every creature could have a fixed and identical lifespan, but there are some real problems with that too. I can think of many different ways it could have been, but can't think of a way to design something like an atom that does what it does naturally.

-_- no, but it sure would be easy to NOT CREATE.
 
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rush1169

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Even in this case, that would still make the claim that the design is PERFECT wrong, because it would have purposeful imperfections. Just because it would be intentional doesn't make it perfect.
Maybe the whole thing isn't perfect, but as designed? Maybe it is perfect. You don't consider it perfect, so what property of the atom would you change that would improve the result?
 
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AV1611VET

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Why couldn't an omnipotent deity create a universe with humans and no radioactivity? You seem to making stuff up.
Then we would all be speaking Japanese, wouldn't we?
 
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