A Bad "Design"

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

Rush said:
I suppose you'd need to do a "what if" exercise and maybe make a list of implications assuming our retina was like that of a squid and see where that ends up. Maybe you'd find we would be yet another degree superior or maybe you'd find humans would never have come to be or maybe your study would be inconclusive. I look forward to what you come up with.

Loudmouth said:
If light didn't have to pass through other cells before hitting our photoreceptors, we would have increased resolution and light sensitivity. We would have a better eye in every way.

That's your "what if" exercise? Do you have to be led every step? With even just a smidge of contemplation, one should realize the impossibility to know the full range of implications of the assumption of a different eye.

One can easily point out the way an eye could be better as a stand-alone object. There are many ways in which the eye could be better: Higher resolution, ability to see 360 degrees, ability to use each eye to focus on different things, or able to see a greater spectrum. Why not 10 eyes? Or 100 eyes? However, what are the historical implications? It may be that, had our evolutionary ancestors had any of those capabilities that humans would not exist today. Butterfly Effect.

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
However, what are the historical implications? It may be that, had our evolutionary ancestors had any of those capabilities that humans would not exist today. Butterfly Effect.

I thought we were talking about separate creation and intelligent design?

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

Loudmouth said:
I thought we were talking about separate creation and intelligent design?

Oh, I didn't get that from the OP. She just said, "If I were a deity, I would be ashamed if I designed humans."

To me, creation and intelligent design converge on the atom as having been created and intelligently designed and why evolution and everything else does what it does. I don't mentally default to YEC. My bad.

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
Oh, I didn't get that from the OP. She just said, "If I were a deity, I would be ashamed if I designed humans."

It was implied. We already know that evolution will produce sub-optimal designs with strange idiosyncracies. What ID/Creationists are arguing is that the human design is "perfect", so much so that it couldn't evolve.

To me, creation and intelligent design converge on the atom as having been created and intelligently designed and why evolution and everything else does what it does. I don't mentally default to YEC. My bad.

Then people with skin cancer would need an explanation of why the Sun damages their DNA. God couldn't design the atom so that the universe was safe for humans?

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

Loudmouth said:
God couldn't design the atom so that the universe was safe for humans?

Maybe. Maybe not. How could it have changed?

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
Maybe. Maybe not. How could it have changed?

God couldn't create atoms so that they are safe for humans?

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

Loudmouth said:
God couldn't create atoms so that they are safe for humans?

Maybe. Maybe not. How could it have changed?

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
Maybe. Maybe not. How could it have changed?

You tell me. Your position implies that the atom is perfectly designed, so show us all of the other possible changes and how they are less perfect.

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

Loudmouth said:
God couldn't create atoms so that they are safe for humans?

Rush said:
Maybe. Maybe not. How could it have changed?

Loudmouth said:
You tell me. Your position implies that the atom is perfectly designed, so show us all of the other possible changes and how they are less perfect.

It's OK to say "I don't know" when answering a question. No biggie, really.

Any change to the properties of an atom that results in anything other than what we have today would be a less than perfect design.

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

Any change to the properties of an atom that results in anything other than what we have today would be a less than perfect design.

What do you base this opinion on?

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

Rush said:
Any change to the properties of an atom that results in anything other than what we have today would be a less than perfect design.

bhsmte said:
What do you base this opinion on?

The answer to your question can be found in this discussion.

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
Any change to the properties of an atom that results in anything other than what we have today would be a less than perfect design.

Evidence?

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
The answer to your question can be found in this discussion.

Where?

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
The answer to your question can be found in this discussion.

I don't see it.

rush1169 · Mar 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
I don't see it.

I can honestly say without reservation, I'm not surprised.

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
I can honestly say without reservation, I'm not surprised.

Why don't you point me to it and surprise me?

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

rush1169 said:
I can honestly say without reservation, I'm not surprised.

All you have given thus far is an argument based on ignorance.

Papias · Mar 25, 2015

Rush and LM -

You both agree that the poor designs in the human and other animal bodies disprove YEC. That's the point of this thread. I pointed that out two pages ago.

It looks like you'v spent a page violently agreeing.

Papias

Loudmouth · Mar 25, 2015

Papias said:
Rush and LM -

You both agree that the poor designs in the human and other animal bodies disprove YEC. That's the point of this thread. I pointed that out two pages ago.

It looks like you'v spent a page violently agreeing.

Papias

We've moved to a new horse that has a pulse.

Papias · Mar 25, 2015

LM wrote:

We've moved to a new horse that has a pulse.

A Bad "Design"

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