Talmud and the Brit Chadasha

simchat_torah

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Again, I have to thank my friend BrookLaw for the groundwork laid to bring forth these quotes. She has many more if anyone is interested...


Sanhedrin 100a, attributes to Rabbi Meir the saying: "The measure which one measures will be measured out to him."

Matthew 7:2: "The measure you give will be the measure you get."
(Rabbi Meir was born after this statement was uttered by Y'shua)



Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
--Matthew 5:7

He who is merciful to others, shall receive mercy from Heaven.
--R. Gamaliel Beribbi, 3rd century C.E., Shabbat 151b




Freely you receive, freely give.
--Matthew 10:8

Just as I teach gratuituously, so you should teach gratuitously.
--R. Judah, 299 C.E., Bekoroth 29a




Let what you say be simply yes or no.
--Matthew 5:37

Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.
--R. Abaye, died 338 C.E., Baba Metzia 49a



Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
--Matthew 23:12

He who humbles himself for the Torah in this world is magnified in the next; and he who makes himself a servant to the Torah in this world becomes free in the next.
--R. Jeremiah, died 250 C.E., Baba Metzia 85b



Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the beam that is in your own eye?
--Matthew 7:3

Do they say, take the splinter out of your eye, he will retort: "Remove the beam out of your own eye."
--R. Johanan, surnamed Bar Napha, 199-279 C.E., Baba Bathra 15b



Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
--Matthew 5:10

Be rather of the persecuted than of the persecutors.
--R. Abbahu, 279-310 C.E., Baba Kamma 93a



Do not be anxious, saying, "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?"
--Matthew 6:31

Whoever has a piece of bread in his basket and says, "What shall I eat tomorrow?" belongs only to them who are little in faith.
--R. Eliezer, died 117 C.E., Sotah 48b-




The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
--Mark 2:27

It (the Sabbath) is committed to your hands, not you to its hands.
--R. Jonathan ben Joseph, flourished after the destruction of the Temple, Yoma 85a



The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.
--Matthew 9.37

The day is short, and the work is much; and the workmen are indolent, but the reward is much; and the Master of the House is insistent.
--R. Tarfon, 120 C.E., Aboth 2:15



"…it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him,'Take me as a proselyte, but on the condition that you teach me the entireTorah, while I stand on one foot.' Shammai instantly drove him away with a builder's measuring rod he happened to have in his hand. When the heathen
came before Hillel, Hillel said to him, 'What is hateful to you, do not do
to your fellow man. This is the entire Torah. All of it; the rest is
commentary. Go ahead and study it.'"
(Shabbat 31a)

"Then one of the scribes [in Matt. 22:34-40, the Pharisees and Sadducees; in
Lk. 10:25-28, a lawyer], who had been listening to these discussions and had
observed how well Jesus answered, came forward and asked him, "Which is the
first of all the commandments? He answered, 'The first is, 'Hear O Israel:
the L-rd our G-d is the one L-rd, and you must love the L-rd your G-d with all
your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your
strength. The second is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.'
No other commandment is greater than these.'" (Mark 12:28-31)





"At the approaching of Messiah, insolence will increase and honor will be held in contempt…The young will cause the faces of their elders to go pale, and the great will wait upon those of little worth. A son will revile his father. A daughter will rise up against her mother, a daughter-in-law
against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the inmates of his own house."
(Sotah 49b; Sanhedrin 97a and Ein Ya'akov, as loc.)

"I have come to set man against father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother in law; and a man will find his enemies
under his own roof."
(Matthew 10:35-36)

"… I have come to bring dissension. From now on, a family of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother,
mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
(Luke 12:51-53)




"Abbaye asked Rabbah: What is your reason for not wanting to see him [the Messiah]? Should you say, 'Because of the birth pangs preceeding the Messiah's coming,' have we not been taught: R. Eliezer's disciples asked
him, 'What should one do to be spared the pangs of the Messiah?' 'Let him engage in study of Torah and in good deeds.'"
(Sanhedrin 98b)

"R. Isaac taught: In the year when the King Messiah reveals himself, all the kings of the nations of the earth will be agitated and frightened; they will fall upon their faces and be seized with pangs like the pangs of a woman in labor."
(PR, Piskas 35-37; Yalkut, Isa., ~499)

"For nation will go to war against nation, kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in many places; there will be famines. These are the first birth-pangs of the new age."
(Mark 13:8)


"In very truth I tell you, you will weep and mourn, but the world will be glad. But though you will be plunged in grief, your grief will be turned to joy. A woman in labor is in pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish in her joy that a child has been born
into the world."
(John 16:20-21)




"R. Yose bar Simon said: The nations of the earth will bring gifts to the
Messiah."
(MTeh 87:6)

"Jesus was born at Bethlehem in Judaea during the reign of Herod. After his
birth astrologers from the east arrived in Jerusalem, asking, where is the
new-born king of the Jews?… they set out… entering the house, they saw the
child with Mary his mother and bowed low in homage to him; they opened their
treasure chests and presented gifts to him…"
(Matthew 2:1-11)



This is not necessarily quoted in the Brit Chadasha, but it's ideas have been argued over in doctrine for some time. If we look at this quote from the Mishnah we can see deeper insight. (I'm not sure if it is discussed in the Talmud, maybe BrookLaw can give us clarity on that)
Mishnah Abot 3:15a
"Everything is forseen, adn [to everything is] free choice given."

There seems to be a false dychotomy of free will vs. predestination. What God has joined together, let no man seperate.
"Every part of YHVH's character has two wings." -Floyd McClung Jr.


Shalom,
Yafet.
 

simchat_torah

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Here's a bit more:

yashanet.com/studies/matstudy/mat3a.htm

I had at one time read through all the studies provided at that site and it was quite good stuff, but to be honest, it's been awhile since I've gone there.

enjoy!
Yafet.
 
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simchat_torah

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I also have a list of psuedopigrapha and dueterocannonical passages that are quoted in the Brit Chadasha if anyone's interested. Of course, I have a special fascination with those quoted from I Enoch... but that's another story all together.

:)
 
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simchat_torah

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iT IS SAID THAT THE BOOK OF ENOCH AND Y'hWD
BORROWED FROM SEPHER ZECHARYOH.

1) What is the book of Y'hWD?

2) I've never heard this claim about Enoch. Dr. Charlesworth, the leading scholar in the world on the Psuedopigrapha and who is currenlty translating the Dead Sea Scrolls, would strongly disagree with you. Could you show me what you base this claim on?

IT IS SAID THAT THE BOOK OF HANOCH WAS ACTUALLY COMPILED IN THE 2ND CENTURY

I'll assume you mean the book of Enoch, right? Again, I've never heard of 'hanoch'.

The book of Enoch appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls, wich dates back a few ceturies BCE. You might be getting confused with the II Enoch, or III Enoch. Second Enoch was redacted by christians roughly around the second century, and Third Enoch was composed later than the sencond century... but all evidence (even physical) shows that I Enoch was an original compliation long before the time of Y'shua.

Shalom,
Yafet.
 
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Woodsy

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simchat_torah said:
Here's a bit more:

yashanet.com/studies/matstudy/mat3a.htm

I had at one time read through all the studies provided at that site and it was quite good stuff, but to be honest, it's been awhile since I've gone there.

enjoy!
Yafet.

Thank you for this link. It is fascinating and I plan to study it at length. :)
 
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simchat_torah

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What I quoted here were 'similarities between Y'shua's words and the Talmud.' However, there are direct teachings drawn straight from the Mishnah, and nearly every single parable Y'shua taught came from a previous Rabbi. (this has been documented by Dr. Brad Young)

Many christians are offended by this fact and try to argue against it. My only conclusion is that it is offensive that his humanity is shown in this respect... as well as his semetic roots. Christians want to deify Y'shua in every respect, and want to remove him from his Jewish context as much as possible.

However, the question remains...

What are perceptions about Y'shua's teachings... and their relationship to the Judaism of his day?

Shalom,
Yafet.
 
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simchat_torah

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I think that the Brit Chadasha is more of a commentary on the Torah. Granted, it is also a historical work that documents the Messiah's Rabbinical dissertations on Torah as well. Both the Messiah and the authors of the Brit Chadasha drew heavily upon Jewish mythology, the writings of Jewish Sages, and from other historical writings to persuade their audiences that Y'shua was the messiah and to give deeper insight into the Torah.

It also seems apparent that at least some of the Jewish authors of the Brit Chadasha found at minimum value in these writings, if not went as far as to view these writings as 'inspired'.

Does this idea offend you? Inspire you to seek out the meaning and value of these extra-biblical writings? What is your reaction?

Shalom,
Yafet.
 
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sojeru

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hi Simchat
I think that the Brit Chadasha is more of a commentary on the Torah.
I draw this conclusion just on KNowing the very nature of Messiah.
What he brought was indeed a commentary and the direct Torah itself.
hardly any difference but there is a line- and Messiah brough t both.
ANd who knows- Messiah was probably the one who taught some of the sages when he was just a little boy- in the temple- with his great wisdom and attention. Yet, i do not push off that he had also learned from the words of the sages.
 
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koilias

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MeshiaH taught the Sages. They just didn't acknowledge him for obvious reasons. One of his parables they put on the lips of the Tanna Elisha ben Abuyah, for example (who later became "aHer"...this is a way of not crediting the original parable giver Yeshua haNotzri). This is the parable of the man who built his house on stone vs. the man who built his house on sand. I forgot where it's mentioned, but I'll get back to you. All the deepest insights of the Rabbis of relating to haShem and Torah, I believe were deeply impacted by the words of Yeshua. Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai and the Tannaim came much later after Yeshua, these teachers simply claimed Yeshua's insights as their own.
 
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koilias

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Simchat, I'm glad you draw in your storehouse of knowledge from the writings of Dr. Brad Young. Like him, I myself was deeply impacted by the late Dr. David Flusser, may his memory be blessed. Dr. Young was Flusser's student.

Dr. Hannah Safrai, a specialist in Jewish parables, is the one who showed me the correlation between Jesus' parables and the Rabbis. She is the daughter of Sh'muel Safrai, Flusser's lifelong friend and mentor. I encourage you to inspect more the writings of the "Jerusalem School" formed by Dr. Flusser and Dr. Robert "Bob" Lindsey, may their memories be blessed.

It is Dr. Hannah Safrai who related to me that Yeshua was, in his homeletic art and wisdom and in his heart for humane application of Torah, unlike any Rabbi she has studied among the Sages. He was a Rabbi par excellence and of unmatched genius.;)

Just an example:
"Show me a denarius, whose IMAGE do you see?"
"Ceasar's."
"Render to Ceasar what's Ceasar's (image), Render to God what's God's."
(Gen. 1:27).
 
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folk_rocker_4jc

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I am looking for non-cannonical writings & I need help. There was a story I read somewhere that said Abraham had a dream that God would intervene on his and Sarah's behalf the nite before he passed her off to Pharoah as his sister.
Also somewhere is a comment that attempts to vindicate Lot for sleeping with his daughters since they supposedly thought they were the last people- that the destruction of Sodom killed off everyone else. Appreciate any help I can get.
 
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YatzivPatgam

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AnthonyForChrist said:
Perhaps God revealed these things to the Jews after Messiah had come to show that He is who He says He is.
I doubt it, since I can produce a list of equal length of teachings that go against concepts found within the Christian NT.

Much of the teachings listed are fairly popular ones and would have been known to alot of Jews at those times.
 
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