My Israel Challenge

Supreme · Mar 13, 2015

AV1611VET said:
In light of the way a few posts are going, this seems like an appropriate thread to bring back up:

The answer is still, from my POV, yes.

AV1611VET · Mar 13, 2015

Supreme said:
The answer is still, from my POV, yes.

Mine too.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2015

AV1611VET said:
It is the year 1611.

Is Israel the Promised Land?

The then land of Canaan was the first promised land. However, the fullness of the promised land didn't occur until the ascension of Britain and America. Neither the land of Canaan then, or the land of the State of Israel today could possibly fulfill the incredible description of the lands given to Ephraim and Manasseh.

In fact the return of the Jews to Palestine is part of God's plan to set the stage for Armageddon. Israel today is a thorn in the side of the Arabs, and a pain in the neck for everyone else.

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

Justatruthseeker said:
It was promised to a people long before 1611, and what makes you think this date is of any importance whatsoever? Israel entered there promised land long ago, long, long before 1611. That they then lost it is a personal problem, brought about by their own behavior. That governments then gave it back makes no difference one way or the other.

So it wasn't promised to them "forever" then?

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

AV1611VET said:
It is the year 1611.

Is Israel the Promised Land?

Hebrews 11 would indicate the answer is no.

The Physical land of Israel was actually described as foreign and transient to it's inhabitants, a mere shadow of the "Better Heavenly Country" that awaited, and that they all looked for.

The True Biblical Promised Land is fulfilled IN Christ and IS Heaven.

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
It is only in a much larger land that the promised "multitudes as numerous as the sands of the sea", or "chariots without number" could be fulfilled.

There is no physical land large enough for that.

It is noteworthy however that the Jews, the descendants of the tribe of Judah, have now acquired much more land than was their allotment in ancient Israel.

Maybe I missed the Headline, but I am unaware of any proof that todays Jews are the descendants of the pre desolation tribe of Judah.

Can you point me to it?

Maybe it's just a matter of taking it on faith? (Nevermind that proof of genealogy is an absolute requirement of The Law of Moses)

Aryeh Jay · Mar 13, 2015

parousia70 said:
There is no physical land large enough for that.

Maybe I missed the Headline, but I am unaware of any proof that todays Jews are the descendants of the pre desolation tribe of Judah.

Can you point me to it?

Maybe it's just a matter of taking it on faith? (Nevermind that proof of genealogy is an absolute requirement of The Law of Moses)

There is just as much proof that a fellow named Jesus really walked the earth around the year 23 as there is to prove a good majority of Jews today are of the Tribe of Judah.

AV1611VET · Mar 13, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
The then land of Canaan was the first promised land. However, the fullness of the promised land didn't occur until the ascension of Britain and America.

-- Oh, oh.

Do I detect British Israelitism here?

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

Aryeh Jay said:
There is just as much proof that a fellow named Jesus really walked the earth around the year 23 as there is to prove a good majority of Jews today are of the Tribe of Judah.

I wholeheartedly agree!

As I said, perhaps its a matter of taking it on faith...

Fortunately for Christians, Proof of Jesus existence isn't a requirement of Christianity placed upon Christians.

For the Jews however, Proof of Genealogy is a clear requirement of the Law of Moses.

However, since no Jew today follows the Law of Moses, I suppose that point is moot.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2015

parousia70 said:
There is no physical land large enough for that.

Click to expand...

It was hyperbole.

Maybe I missed the Headline, but I am unaware of any proof that todays Jews are the descendants of the pre desolation tribe of Judah.

Can you point me to it?

Maybe it's just a matter of taking it on faith? (Nevermind that proof of genealogy is an absolute requirement of The Law of Moses)

Click to expand...

Maybe God raised up Jews from stones. That would be confusing genetically.

"And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Matthew 3:9

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2015

AV1611VET said:
-- Oh, oh.

Do I detect British Israelitism here?

It never goes away (I'll make sure of that). ^_^

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
It was hyperbole.

Then your contention that a much smaller land could not have "fulfilled it" is incorrect, if it's Hyperbole.
Heck, My inner City back yard is large enough to fulfill a dwelling place for innumerable "hyperbolic" multitudes.

Maybe God raised up Jews from stones. That would be confusing genetically.

Not Really. The Law of Moses still requires proof of Lineage. Any Jews God raised from stones would have surely been also provided by God with documentation of Abrahamic Genetic lineage, as per His own Law.

Aryeh Jay · Mar 13, 2015

parousia70 said:
I wholeheartedly agree!

As I said, perhaps its a matter of taking it on faith...

Fortunately for Christians, Proof of Jesus existence isn't a requirement of Christianity placed upon Christians.

For the Jews however, Proof of Genealogy is a clear requirement of the Law of Moses.

However, since no Jew today follows the Law of Moses, I suppose that point is moot.

Says the follower of the Pope and man-made Cannon law

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

Aryeh Jay said:
Says the follower of the Pope and man-made Cannon law

Therefore....?

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2015

parousia70 said:
Then your contention that a much smaller land could not have "fulfilled it" is incorrect, if it's Hyperbole.
Heck, My inner City back yard is large enough to fulfill a dwelling place for innumerable "hyperbolic" multitudes.

Click to expand...

"Numerous as the sand of the sea, uncountable for number" is hyperbole, but it means a lot of people, more than can be accurately counted.

Not Really. The Law of Moses still requires proof of Lineage. Any Jews God raised from stones would have surely been also provided by God with documentation of Abrahamic Genetic lineage, as per His own Law.

Click to expand...

The prophecy concerning the return of the Jews to the promised land predates the law of Moses, and was fulfilled after the termination of the law of Moses.

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
The prophecy concerning the return of the Jews to the promised land predates the law of Moses,

Chapter & Verse?

and was fulfilled after the termination of the law of Moses.

Again, Chapter & Verse?
When was the Law of Moses Terminated exactly?

Do you believe Ezekiel 40-44 is past?

parousia70 · Mar 13, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
"Numerous as the sand of the sea, uncountable for number" is hyperbole, but it means a lot of people, more than can be accurately counted.

Define Accurately.

Does the current human population of 7+ Billion fit the description of "numerous as the sands of the Sea"?

Did the Human population of 300 million from 1000 years ago fit it too?

Does the current 8.4 million person Population of New York City fit the description?

Can't really "accurately" count the population of My City, Portland Oregon either, and it's only about 800,000 - Would you contend that 800,000 qualifies as "Numerous as the sands of the sea"?

Just trying to get an idea of where you draw the line.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2015

parousia70 said:
Chapter & Verse?

Click to expand...

Genesis 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

Again, Chapter & Verse?
When was the Law of Moses Terminated exactly?

Click to expand...

"Moses Seat", the authority of the Levitical priesthood, ended with the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.

Does the Catholic church, or any other Christian church, keep the Law of Moses?

Do you believe Ezekiel 40-44 is past?

Click to expand...

No, but there is evidence that during the millennial reign of Christ certain ordinances will be reestablished. It will not however be the 'Law of Moses'.

OldWiseGuy · Mar 13, 2015

parousia70 said:
Define Accurately.

Does the current human population of 7+ Billion fit the description of "numerous as the sands of the Sea"?

Did the Human population of 300 million from 1000 years ago fit it too?

Does the current 8.4 million person Population of New York City fit the description?

Can't really "accurately" count the population of My City, Portland Oregon either, and it's only about 800,000 - Would you contend that 800,000 qualifies as "Numerous as the sands of the sea"?

Just trying to get an idea of where you draw the line.

Objection: Argumentative.

Davian · Mar 14, 2015

AV1611VET said:
It is the year 1611.

Is Israel the Promised Land?

Is the existence of Israel a good thing, for Christians? I see videos like this one, and wonder....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlT3ARuUSGc

Or is this just an anomaly?

My Israel Challenge

It is the year 1611. Is Israel the Promised Land?

Yes

No

British

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Wake me when it's soup.

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Gone and hopefully forgotten.

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Gone and hopefully forgotten.

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Wake me when it's soup.

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

fallible

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