The Identity of Gog and His Allies.

Biblewriter said in post 197:

. . . other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5 . . .

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Regarding Isaiah 7, note that Isaiah 7:17-25 is addressed to Ahaz (Isaiah 7:12). The king of Assyria in Isaiah 7:17 could refer to Tilgathpilneser (2 Chronicles 28:19-21, cf. 1 Chronicles 5:6). And the rivers of Egypt in Isaiah 7:18 could refer to small rivers near the southern end of Philistia and its border with Egypt. For "the river of Egypt" was a small river at the southern border of Israel in the land of the Philistines (Numbers 34:5, Joshua 15:4,47). So Isaiah 7:18 could refer to the invasion of Judah by both the Philistines and Tilgathpilneser in the time of Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:18-21).

Biblewriter said in post 197:

. . . other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5 . . .

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Regarding Isaiah 10, verses 5-34 could have been fulfilled during Sennacherib's invasion in Isaiah chapters 36-37.

Isaiah 10:9-11 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 36:19-20 and 2 Kings 18:34-35.

Isaiah 10:12,20,21 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 37:31-38.

Also, there is no historical proof that Sennacherib didn't fulfill Isaiah 10:28-32. His main army could have gone down the coast while he led an expeditionary force quickly down the ridge (leaving no archaeological markers) to check out the approaches to Jerusalem and get a sense of the best way to lay siege to it. Then he could have shaken his fist at Jerusalem (Isaiah 10:32) and rejoined his main army along the coast.

Later, while he was besieging Lachish, he could have worried how long it would take to besiege Jerusalem, and so sent some of his forces to try to scare-talk Jerusalem into surrender (2 Kings 18:17-37) so he wouldn't have to return and lay siege to it. Note the similarity of his boasting in 2 Kings 18:34-35 and Isaiah 36:19-20 to that prophesied in Isaiah 10:9-11.

Also, 2 Kings 18:5-6 doesn't say (as is sometimes claimed) that the masses of Israel weren't hypocritical (Isaiah 10:6) at the time of Isaiah 36:1. And 2 Chronicles 30:12 only refers to the people keeping a single passover (2 Chronicles 30:2,13) near the start of Hezekiah's reign (2 Chronicles 29:3,17; 2 Chronicles 30:2,13), not (as is sometimes claimed) to how the people were 14 years later (Isaiah 36:1, Isaiah 10:5-6).

Biblewriter said in post 197:

. . . other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5 . . .

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Regarding Isaiah 14, in verse 25, the Assyrian could be Sennacherib (Isaiah 37:36-37).

Isaiah 14:28-29 could include reference to Palestina (the ancient Philistines) possibly being smitten by Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria in the time of Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:18-21). Palestina could have been smitten again later by a subsequent king of Assyria, such as Sennacherib in the time of Hezekiah (2 Kings 18:13), the son of Ahaz (2 Kings 18:1).

Biblewriter said in post 197:

. . . other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5 . . .

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Regarding Isaiah 30, verses 30-33 could refer to the Antichrist's defeat at Jesus' 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20).

Biblewriter said in post 197:

. . . other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5 . . .

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Regarding Isaiah 31, verses 8-9 could refer to Sennacherib's defeat, and his return to his stronghold of Nineveh (Isaiah 37:36-37).

Biblewriter said in post 197:

. . . other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5 . . .

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Regarding Micah 5, in verse 5, "the Assyrian shall come into our land" could refer to when the Antichrist and his world armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-4, Daniel 11:45) and Jesus' defeat of the Antichrist (Isaiah 30:30-33, Revelation 19:20). The subsequent successful fighting by the Jews in Zechariah 14:14 and Zechariah 12:6-8 could include what Micah 5:5b-6a is referring to.

The ancient Assyrian empire included Lebanon, and the Antichrist could have Assyrian blood in him.

The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named Hakim. The Antichrist's last name could be Hakim, and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

Fred V B said:

For many, many years, as a Christian believer reading the Bible regularly, I understood Gog as being the one leading Russia and its allies against people of Israel, they would be defeated and there would be lasting peace under real rule of Yahweh there; there would also be the attack from the Beast shown in Revelation, who would be defeated with Christ returning with his rule of the Millennium being established. I haven't heard anything different about these things from teachers of Bible topics. Yet there is difficulty in resolving a sequence of when two events as these would happen. Ultimately, after decades of no further insight, not that it had great importance among things to know from the Bible, I gave up on trying to think of it that way. I am more convinced now that there isn't great basis to say that those passages are about different events, unless we are to read them with our understanding of contemporary developments in our world. It seems to me the leader Gog is representing the Beast of Revelation, that would have control and lead forces of the world against people in Israel. This would suggest leadership over Europe anyway would amount to Russian power dominating.

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Biblewriter said:

Actually, the scriptures never say that the great attacker that comes down on Judah is "the Beast." That idea is based on interpretations of a few scriptures, while neglection other scriptures that clearly identify this attacker as "the Assyrian," an end time individual that is found in Isaiah 7, 10 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5, and every chapter of Nehemiah. The scriptures about this individual are normally missed because students assume they are only speaking of Sennacherib, who attacked Judah during the righteous reign of Hezekiah.
The scriptures indicate the timing of this attack as the middle of Daniel's seventieth week. This is found in Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15-22. And Psalm 83 lists the nations that will participate in this attack. That list is completely different from the list of nations that will participate in the attack led by Gog.
Ezekiel 38 and 39 contain five different "date stamps" that show that this attack will not come at the middle of the week, but after it is over. Sadly, the prejudice about the pre-tribulation timing of this attack has led many to miss these clear date stamps.

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None of us can say something about what is yet coming with certainty even with the prophecy, myself included. The fulfillment itself will have how that happens known for a certainty, prophecy being fulfilled recognized that way.

I think though of Revelation 16:13-14, and Revelation 19:19-20 showing the battle with Christ appearing to overcome the enemy, which shows the beast there. There is lasting peace there, just as what is shown in Ezekiel 39:13-14, which in that case as a long period to dispose of what remains of the battle, I don't see that fits with the approach of the enemy on the holy city at the end of the millennial reign.

My comment


Satan attempts to destroy Israel twice in prophetic scripture [Ezekiel 38; 39] and [Revelation 20:7-10]

He will loose both adventures hands down .... both rebellions 1000 years apart

The Lord addresses the instigator Satan as "gog" in both, and the rebelling nations involved symbolized by the term "magog"

The first at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21; 20:1-3]

The second at the end of His millennial kingdom upon the earth [Revelation 20:7-10]

Satan's entire ploy will be "buried" in defeat at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39] .... the next will be consumed by fire [Revelation 20:9]

Two different battles .... to different outcomes

Straightshot said:

My comment


Satan attempts to destroy Israel twice in prophetic scripture [Ezekiel 38; 39] and [Revelation 20:7-10]

He will loose both adventures hands down .... both rebellions 1000 years apart

The Lord addresses the instigator Satan as "gog" in both, and the rebelling nations involved symbolized by the term "magog"

The first at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21; 20:1-3]

The second at the end of His millennial kingdom upon the earth [Revelation 20:7-10]

Satan's entire ploy will be "buried" in defeat at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39] .... the next will be consumed by fire [Revelation 20:9]

Two different battles .... to different outcomes

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Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy


The mountains will only be destroyed one time.


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"Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?"


The Lord addresses Satan as "gog" [Ezekiel 38:17]

And He looks at the "land" region of magog [northwestern Mesopotamia] and his brothers where the first significant incubation of human rebellion took place during the first 500 years after the flood .... this same region will generate Satan's ploy against a returned remnant of Israel which will result in the battle of Armageddon

Satan's entire human mustering will be destroyed and the remains buried by Israel in order to cleanse the land .... and Satan will be sent to the abyss for 1000 years

The same will cause another human rebellion at the ending of the 1000 years and the Lord will destroy this one quickly by fire .... and Satan will be destroyed in His lake of fire

The terms "gog" and "magog" are used symbolically to describe Satan's instigation to cause human rebellion against the Lord and His nation of Israel

.... used twice in scripture for describing events 1000 years apart

Straightshot said:

"Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?"


The Lord addresses Satan as "gog" [Ezekiel 38:17]

And He looks at the "land" region of magog [northwestern Mesopotamia] and his brothers where the first significant incubation of human rebellion took place during the first 500 years after the flood .... this same region will generate Satan's ploy against a returned remnant of Israel which will result in the battle of Armageddon

Satan's entire human mustering will be destroyed and the remains buried by Israel in order to cleanse the land .... and Satan will be sent to the abyss for 1000 years

The same will cause another human rebellion at the ending of the 1000 years and the Lord will destroy this one quickly by fire .... and Satan will be destroyed in His lake of fire

The terms "gog" and "magog" are used symbolically to describe Satan's instigation to cause human rebellion against the Lord and His nation of Israel

.... used twice in scripture for describing events 1000 years apart

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2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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BABerean2 said in post 208:

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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Amen.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming. But it will occur before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 doesn't say that "all" the unsaved will be killed at the 2nd coming, for some will be left alive (Matthew 24:39b-40), and they will enter the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). Also, the "vengeance" and "everlasting destruction" at the 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9) won't be the lake of fire for everyone killed, just as "the vengeance of eternal fire" which came on Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 1:7) wasn't the lake of fire for those killed. For only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20). The rest of the unsaved won't be cast into the lake of fire until after they have been physically resurrected and judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). Between the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3) and the great white throne judgment will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Straightshot said:

Satan attempts to destroy Israel twice in prophetic scripture [Ezekiel 38; 39] and [Revelation 20:7-10]
He will loose both adventures hands down .... both rebellions 1000 years apart
The Lord addresses the instigator Satan as "gog" in both, and the rebelling nations involved symbolized by the term "magog"
The first at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21; 20:1-3]
The second at the end of His millennial kingdom upon the earth [Revelation 20:7-10]
Satan's entire ploy will be "buried" in defeat at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39] .... the next will be consumed by fire [Revelation 20:9]
Two different battles .... to different outcomes

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Magog is still a name of a people shown from Genesis 11, from Japheth. And so I haven't seen basis to understand Gog would be anything other than a man. In Ezekiel's account, there is necessarily time described after the battle involving Gog, with lasting peace afterward, as this typifies the battle of Armageddon that is to come, the battle involving Gog should be the same, otherwise it would not be true for one or the other if different battles that there is lasting peace after the battle with God's rule established. The Gog at the end of a thousand years leading those who are rebellious against God and against Christ would be one coming in the spirit of the first Gog, just as there could be Elijah's spirit on another after him.

That one in the end after a thousand years couldn't be the same Gog, as described in Ezekiel's account, with the same battle, could it, with the time as described to deal with what remained from the battle, with God's rule then established for lasting peace in the land.

Fred

It is Satan who is released to muster the rebels at the end of the Lord's coming millennial kingdom [Revelation 20:7-8]

The terms "gog" and "magog" are used to speak of Satan's influence upon human rebellion against the Lord

Just the same it is Satan who will muster rebelling nations against the Lord and Israel at Armageddon at the end of this present age

You are correct that Magog and his brothers Mesheck and Tubal formed the early post flood settlements in the "land of Magog" located in northwestern Iraq

And these were later pushed out of the Middle East northward over the Caucus by the northern Babylonians called the Assyrians [the off shoot of Nimrod's southern enclave in southeastern Iraq [Genesis 10:10] .... Asshur went forth to build Nineveh on the Tigris River [Genesis 10:11]

Both enclaves rebelled against the Lord and Satan was the instigator in each case .... but it is the ancient "land" of Magog which Ezekiel is to set his face against at the time of the end

And it is this same region of ancient Assyria [Syria/Iraq today] where Satan will stage his planned rebellion against the Lord and Israel which will lead to the battle of Armageddon [Ezekiel 38:17] .... the Lord is addressing Satan in Ezekiel 38; 39

This region is still the same today and setting up as we speak for the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy

The peoples living in the region are predominantly Muslim today and the mustering of the same is in process as we speak .... and it is Satan who will bring these worshipers of Allah against Israel

The core of the mustering is located in Syria/Iraq and is in process at this time [the current Islamic State]

Satan is called "gog" and the mustering is called magog [all of gog's human followers]

This symbolism is also used to identify the later rebellion of Satan's human following at the end of the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth [Revelation 20:7-10]

Satan's strategy today is to bring the rising of the human little horn [king] [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:24-27 [the other prince that shall come]; 11:36-45; 12:7] who will be possessed by the first beast of Revelation [Abaddon/Apollyon] .... this fallen angelic rules specifically over 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms for Satan [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

The first of the 7 kingdoms of Satan's nesting was centered in the ancient "land" of Magog

The next 4 were the Assyrian, neo-Babylon, Persian, and Seleucid .... all centered in the same region of the Middle East

When the Seleucid fell just before the first century Abaddon/Apollyon was sent to the abyss and is still there at this time ... a place where he cannot interact with humanity

.... but he is soon to be released to serve Satan again [Revelation 9:1; 12:12; 13:1-4]

His first Middle Eastern Kingdom [the 6th] will be smaller at first [the human "little horn" will at first rule over a smaller kingdom in the region of the ancient "land" of Magog .... he is called the "Assyrian" in Micah 5:5-6 .... note the symbolism of the ancient Assyrian Empire

And this king of the north will expand his dominion to form the 7th divided kingdom of iron and clay with 10 other human kings [Daniel 2:40-43; 8:9; 11:36-41]

Daniel is shown Abaddon/Apollyon's kingdoms beginning with the 3rd of the 7 forward .... these 4: neo-Babylon [lion], Persian [bear], and the Seleucid in both its past and its future and final form [leopard] [Daniel 7:1-7; Revelation 13:1-4]

In conclusion, Satan nesting in the Middle East is given in detail to include his mustering and influence over human kingdoms in the region up to the end of this present age .... then he will be sent to the abyss for 1000 years and will not be able to deceive the nations during the Lord's coming millennial kingdom [Revelation 20:1-3]

Then he will be released to cause another and final human rebellion similar to the one 1000 years earlier .... and this time he will be sent to the Lord's lake of fire where his beast and false prophet were sent at Armageddon and destroyed for ever [Revelation 19:19-21; 20:10]

I can't prove that wrong, eschatology is still very interpretive with many views coming easily, but with using the scriptures for that some things will still be more definite with enough considered. I don't see how it can be definite that Gog named is a reference to Satan. What is said of Gog in the book of Ezekiel could still apply to a man, as it really seems to. For instance he is going to be given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Compare Ez 38:16 & 17 with Is 8:1, 3 & 8. Note how Maherhalshalhashbaz is mockingly called "oh Immanuel in Is and OH Gog in Ez 38:16.

Oh Immanuel wouldbe a anti-immanuel figure. The 65 yrprophecy in Is 7:8 seems to refer to something near term, but more associated with Ahazes refusal of a sign (an example of absolute faith like Abraham) and the Immanel prophecy. Hmmmmm Simon bar kochbah revolt ended 65 yrs after 70 AD. Simon bar kochbah was crowned Messiah by tge San Hedrain; no higher authority in pseudo Israel). But he was not Gods Immanuel but rather Maherhalshalhashbaz or anti-Immanuel.


Two objections that need addressed are the date of writing & the theme of revelation AND who are "my people of Israel in chs 38/39 as compared to THY PEOPLE ISRAEL in the same chs and in such places as Dan 9:24.

Ireneouses ch 30 of book 4 (or 5) can be shown in context to have intended to say that John, not the vision, was seen in domitians reign. And the first two sentences of the chapter indicate that by the mid second century there were alrrady "ancient" copies of the letter to which the recent copies were compared. Thus an early date of rev must be at least considered.

Secondly, if Abraham, Isaac and Israel were foretypes of the new covt and Ez 34, 36 & 37 contain prophecies of the new covt administered by Christ, then it makes dense that "my people Israel" are the people of the new covt as compared with "thy people Israel" of the mosaic covt nation.


The "seed of Israe" in Jer 31:32ff, like the seed of Abraham in Gen 12 &15 refers to believers and adherants to Christ way of Peace & truth(s), not to the physical descendancies.

Could the short season of Rev 20 thus be Is 7:8's 65 yrs?

The fact is John calls all unbelievers Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:7-10. To deny this is to deny the fact that John give us the view of how to interpret Ezekiel...

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

John also ties into Ezekiel 40-48 as he gets the vision of eternity in Revelation 21:10-27.

Scripture interprets itself...but when people take views that have been taught them in their congregation, they simply approach the scripture with the presupposition they have been taught. Rather than read scripture and compare scripture with scripture.

Just as Jesus had to debate the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes about the truth of scripture, *if* He came today many would tell Him He is wrong in His eschatology, just as the Jewish leaders did in the 1st century.

Jesus started in Matthew 23 as He railed against the Pharisees, in Matthew 24 He speaks Jerusalem's destruction, and in Matthew 25 He speaks of things while He is reigning at the right hand of the Father. His bride (the church) is serving Him...but as He points out in Matthew 25 there are those who think they are the bride, whom He will refuse!

I for one don't believe things because of what I have heard in a congregation. And I have been a regular attender at different congregations, over a good length of time. My own study with trusting God in prayer shows me things, such as Gog and Magog referred to for what is coming in the end times. Babylon is mentioned in events for the end times, also. I don't though believe the city of Babylon itself is what will be in the scenario that fulfills such prophecy. And Gog and Magog mentioned in Revelation, whether being all the unbelievers then or those leading armed masses of such unbelievers, are not the same Gog and Magog in the writing from Ezekiel. The Gog mentioned in that is spoken of as a man, who is killed in defeat, and what follows in that vision does not correspond to the event with Gog and Magog mentioned depicted in Revelation, which is to happen at the very end of Christ's millennial reign, which has the heavens and this earth depart with people brought before the throne of Yahweh God in final judgment before the eternal consequence they are given right after it.