Does God still punish Nations?

AnticipateHisComing · Mar 3, 2015

I was reading Jeremiah and took notice of how many nations God promised to punish, including his chosen. So that made me think of this question.

Does God still punish Nations?

I don't want to argue over the difference between punish, discipline or judge. A whooping feels the same for all three so consider them the same for my question.

I think yes. Jesus said he did not abolish the law.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Paul says the law is for dealing with transgressions/punishment not for salvation.

Galatians 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Revelation has many examples of God's future punishment.

The poll has two possible answers: Yes or No.
If you are not convinced to yes or no then don't vote.
I consider sometimes, whether frequent or infrequent to be a yes.
I don't want to argue how often or much God might punish or whether he always punishes "evil" nations.
I don't want to argue whether the nations are "Christian" or not.

I just am asking if you think God does still punish nations to some extent.

Edited to add a third answer for any end-time tribulation kind of thinking.

Cackles · Mar 3, 2015

NO!!! HE DOES NOT!

This is considered dualistic and modalistic view of God. It's essentially tribal paganism. While it is still 'normal' in 'Orthodox' Judaism, do NOT fall into that way of thinking or buy any of those books. Man does not control the deity. This is Paganism.

AnticipateHisComing · Mar 3, 2015

Cackles said:
NO!!! HE DOES NOT!

This is considered dualistic and modalistic view of God. It's essentially tribal paganism. While it is still 'normal' in 'Orthodox' Judaism, do NOT fall into that way of thinking or buy any of those books. Man does not control the deity. This is Paganism.

Was it paganism when God punished nations 3000 years ago?

Could you actually make an argument using scripture instead of just name calling and opinion?

Albion · Mar 3, 2015

I feel like answering "Who knows?"

Seriously, he might do that, but how would we know? We could be like those people who insist that they've figured it out and God was punishing Germany or the UK or is right now punishing the USA, etc. but it's all a guess since every country has fallen short of God's standards and all of them rise and fall at some time or other.

sdowney717 · Mar 3, 2015

Isaiah 40
15 Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket,
And are counted as the small dust on the scales;
Look, He lifts up the isles as a very little thing.
16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn,
Nor its beasts sufficient for a burnt offering.
17 All nations before Him are as nothing,
And they are counted by Him less than nothing and worthless.

God is not building the above, the nations represent peoples from whom are drawn out of the world His own special people to form a holy nation.

God is building this instead

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

They way I see this, is God has already judged the nations and until Christ returns, their final doom is just delayed for a season.

sdowney717 · Mar 3, 2015

Someday in the future we get this done for us who believe, v27.

Typically the world's kingdoms, which are made of nations, God describes as beasts on earth. And Satan has control and sway over them. But only so far as God allows Satan to exercise power,

Because of this
Colossians 2:15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

To disarm means despoil especially by force.
1. To deprive of something valuable, especially by force; rob: The invaders despoiled the town of its art treasures. He was despoiled of his inheritance by crooked lawyers.
2. To ruin, especially by destroying or removing what is valuable:

1. (tr) to strip or deprive by force; plunder; rob; loot
to strip of possessions, things of value, etc.; rob; plunder; pillage.

Daniel 7

23 Thus he said:

The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[d] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.

27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.

Gregory Thompson · Mar 3, 2015

AnticipateHisComing said:
I was reading Jeremiah and took notice of how many nations God promised to punish, including his chosen. So that made me think of this question.

Does God still punish Nations?

I don't want to argue over the difference between punish, discipline or judge. A whooping feels the same for all three so consider them the same for my question.

I think yes. Jesus said he did not abolish the law.

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Paul says the law is for dealing with transgressions/punishment not for salvation.

Galatians 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Revelation has many examples of God's future punishment.

The poll has two possible answers: Yes or No.
If you are not convinced to yes or no then don't vote.
I consider sometimes, whether frequent or infrequent to be a yes.
I don't want to argue how often or much God might punish or whether he always punishes "evil" nations.
I don't want to argue whether the nations are "Christian" or not.

I just am asking if you think God does still punish nations to some extent.

Edited to add a third answer for any end-time tribulation kind of thinking.

I voted NO . because there's lots of basis for such judgment but no such judgment . nations do a good enough job of destroying themselves when they do not do unto others as they would do unto themselves .

Gnarwhal · Mar 4, 2015

I think humanity punishes itself enough, God doesn't even need to bother. Whether it's war, corporate greed, environmental rape, slavery, or some other form of injustice, oppression or exploitation, I think we're the ones who are responsible the for the conditions and consequences of the world.

The world is broken, but it's being remade. It started with Christ's resurrection and it's continuing on today and will proceed forward all the way to his second advent. In the meantime, we struggle against the systems of this world that run contrary to and have no place in the world to come. Like those things I listed above. They have implications and repercussions for us socially, environmentally, politically and sure... even spiritually.

Why punish us when we already punish ourselves?

AnticipateHisComing · Mar 4, 2015

Albion said:
I feel like answering "Who knows?"

Seriously, he might do that, but how would we know? We could be like those people who insist that they've figured it out and God was punishing Germany or the UK or is right now punishing the USA, etc. but it's all a guess since every country has fallen short of God's standards and all of them rise and fall at some time or other.

I never intended to point out specific evil nations as being evidence to support an answer to the thread question.

I only want people to consider that the O.T. has many examples of God punishing nations. If God had cause to do this before, he certainly has cause to do it now. Why would God stop this?

1) Did God only punish nations to protect Israel. I don't believe this Zionism.

2) Did God only punish nations until the new covenant came? I don't think so, because the new covenant is for individuals, not nations.

Maybe some think God never punished nations. Maybe some think God does not punish. Maybe some think God will only punish on the last day.

I think scripture is clear that God did punish nations in the O.T.. I see no reason for him to change.

AnticipateHisComing · Mar 4, 2015

Michael Collum said:
I voted NO . because there's lots of basis for such judgment but no such judgment . nations do a good enough job of destroying themselves when they do not do unto others as they would do unto themselves .

Certainly there is scripture that speaks to evil people suffering consequences of their actions. This says nothing about nations though and whether God has stopped punishing nations. The two can certainly exist together.

Albion · Mar 4, 2015

AnticipateHisComing said:
I never intended to point out specific evil nations as being evidence to support an answer to the thread question.

That wasn't an issue for me, even though I named a few countries that other people have insisted have been punished by God.

I only want people to consider that the O.T. has many examples of God punishing nations. If God had cause to do this before, he certainly has cause to do it now. Why would God stop this?

It's logical to ask. My answer is "Who knows?" We may agree that God has done this and could do it again, but there's almost no way to identify any country that has been punished in this way.

AnticipateHisComing · Mar 4, 2015

sdowney717 said:
God is not building the above, the nations represent peoples from whom are drawn out of the world His own special people to form a holy nation.

God is building this instead

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

They way I see this, is God has already judged the nations and until Christ returns, their final doom is just delayed for a season.

Such are languages, that one word has multiple meanings. Israel is used in the Bible to be the saved. It is also used for a nation or ethnic grouping.

It should be clear that the traditional meaning of nations is the topic of the thread. Since Jesus, many nations have risen and fallen and continue to do so. Surely if a new nation rises you can't think it misses out of being judged before the last day.

AnticipateHisComing · Mar 4, 2015

Darth Bagel said:
I think humanity punishes itself enough, God doesn't even need to bother...

Why punish us when we already punish ourselves?

Because God punished nations in the past for making him angry.
Because nations persist in making God angry.
Does God change? Why would he stop?

Jeremiah 7:20 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this placeon man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your landand it will burn and not be quenched.

Jeremiah 33:5 in the fight with the Babylonians: They will be filled with the dead bodies of the people I will slay in my anger and wrath. I will hide my face from this city because of all its wickedness.

ChristsSoldier115 · Mar 4, 2015

Darth Bagel said:
I think humanity punishes itself enough, God doesn't even need to bother. Whether it's war, corporate greed, environmental rape, slavery, or some other form of injustice, oppression or exploitation, I think we're the ones who are responsible the for the conditions and consequences of the world.

The world is broken, but it's being remade. It started with Christ's resurrection and it's continuing on today and will proceed forward all the way to his second advent. In the meantime, we struggle against the systems of this world that run contrary to and have no place in the world to come. Like those things I listed above. They have implications and repercussions for us socially, environmentally, politically and sure... even spiritually.

Why punish us when we already punish ourselves?

In my AA, our one speaker said it best, "Our sins punish themselves."

ChristsSoldier115 · Mar 4, 2015

This is crazy.. I was just about to post this very question and sure enough! someone was wondering the same thing. subscribing for sure.

ChristsSoldier115 · Mar 4, 2015

I wish I had an answer myself. it seems like God did do collective punishment. Did he not punish all of Israel because of David taking a census?

Then again God appears to have has all kinds of special exceptions concerning humanity as a whole and Israel. Perhaps we shouldn't be using Israel an an example for much of anything. They did rebel against God pretty consistently.

Gnarwhal · Mar 4, 2015

AnticipateHisComing said:
Because God punished nations in the past for making him angry.
Because nations persist in making God angry.
Does God change? Why would he stop?

Jeremiah 7:20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place—on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your land—and it will burn and not be quenched.

Jeremiah 33:5 in the fight with the Babylonians: ‘They will be filled with the dead bodies of the people I will slay in my anger and wrath. I will hide my face from this city because of all its wickedness.

God hasn't necessarily changed, but the nature of humanities relationship to him - via Christ - has changed. Sins are forgiven, once and for all by Christ's resurrection. Resorting to OT forms of atonement and discipline aren't the deal anymore.

Disasters happen because the world is still fractured, it longs to be in harmony with it's creator but it isn't there yet. It will be, it's happening now, but it that isn't finished yet. We do, and have done, things to the Earth that have repercussions, and we reap those things that we've sown. But I don't believe God himself is sitting there saying, "Gee these folks in New Orleans sure have gone off the beaten path, welp... here comes Katrina then!"

Cackles · Mar 4, 2015

AnticipateHisComing said:
Because God punished nations in the past for making him angry.
Because nations persist in making God angry.
Does God change? Why would he stop?

Jeremiah 7:20 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this placeon man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your landand it will burn and not be quenched.

Jeremiah 33:5 in the fight with the Babylonians: They will be filled with the dead bodies of the people I will slay in my anger and wrath. I will hide my face from this city because of all its wickedness.

I believe the above to be a heresy that skewed my view of Christianity and robbed me of my Holy Spirit. I just thought it was normal Christianity. I didnt realize it was a new doctrine from the 19th century literally out of Masonic Lodges. Now I know why the Masons were banned. They really are a secret religion with their own doctrines and plans for the shaping of the world. The architects of the world - cutting and drawing nation states and tribes. Reading the OT like a comic book. Contradicting everything Christ came for.

Gregory Thompson · Mar 4, 2015

AnticipateHisComing said:
Certainly there is scripture that speaks to evil people suffering consequences of their actions. This says nothing about nations though and whether God has stopped punishing nations. The two can certainly exist together.

being acquainted with the Old testament . i know that God did judge the nations back then . but since Jesus that there have been no such judgments .. is what i have observed

yogosans14 · Mar 4, 2015

Not through Natural disasters. But I believe he DOES stop blessing a nation and turns his back on it. The Bible say a nation that forgets God turns into Hell. We can see how bad the USA is turning because we have turned our backs on God and his word.

Does God still punish Nations?

Does God still punish Nations?

Yes, Sometimes, Frequent or Infrequent

No, as in not once since Jesus

Only on the last day or seven literal years before the last day

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