Islamic State of the Muslim Caliphate

Straightshot said:

Your story is quite amusing D

Sorry, I don't buy it

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Oh, so you think Iraq is west of Israel? And that the term Antichrist is found in Revelation?

Straightshot said:

From what direction do the scriptures tell of the neo-Babylon as coming upon Israel .... and what about the Assyrians?

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"neo-Babylon" - is some term you made up.

And what end time passage refers to the Assyrians ?

Do you know why?

If one is in Israel it is from the north that the little horn will come

The little horn is a king of the north .... in the Middle East [Daniel 11:36-45]

And I must remind you that Europe is not north of Israel

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Greece is the territory of one the break-up kingdoms. Which is north and west of Israel. That's where the little horn leader of the EU will stage his army as he prepares to stave off Gog/Magog attacking Israel.

There is no passage that says the little horn is the king of the north. The person who originates as the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8, eventually near the end of his time, in Daniel 11:36-45 is attacked from the south, then the north, then news from the north and east trouble him. So the little horn who is the king of the west will be fighting against the other 3 quadrants of the world.

Now in your scenario, there would be the north, south, and east. The kings of the east are in Revelation 16, as marching across the Euphrates. So you have the north, south and east involved - but the most powerful by far militaries in the world when combined the EU and the United States and Canada - left out.

Which does not match up with God drawing all nations against Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.

Europe is in decline, the Pope is loosing his stature there, and the continent is being inundated with Muslims today

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Europe is about to evolve into that final form ten king (leader) government, having started out as the EEC..... as it says in Daniel 8:23 in the latter time of their kingdom, the kingdom of the transgressors when they have come to a full, i.e. the ten leader form of government....a king of fierce countenance, the little horn, stands up, makes ready for war.

I don't subscribe to the Pope and/or office of Pope being the Antichrist, nor the False Prophet. I told you that before, but it is not registering I guess.

This is reality and the prophetic scriptures all describe and name the populations of the Middle East that have been there for millennia ..... the same who are the direct and virulent enemies of Israel [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Joel 2:20; Micah 5; Obadiah 1:1-21; Zechariah 12; 14]

And these are primarily muslin today

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You have mis-understood those properly. If you did, you would know that the 7 years follow Gog/Magog - end of Islam.

When is the last time you heard any thing about the Communist threat? Back when I was a teenager, that was the big reality. Everyone will figuring out how the Antichrist could come out of Russia. But you see what happened - Communism basically disappeared. The same is going to happen to Islam.

The end time controversy is between Issac and Ishmael .... not Issac and "Rome"

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If you buy Joel Richardson's books. No-one is aaying the controvery is between Issac and Rome. btw, do you know that the Jews associate Rome with Edom? Again, I done subscribe to thoughts of the reformers regarding the Pope being the Antichrist, nor the false prophet.

Your views are all outdated and not accurate .... the reformers and re-constructionists got it wrong and simply did not understand Bible prophecy

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okay, I am going to have to put it in big letters.....

I DON'T HOLD THE REFORMERS VIEW. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE POPE, NOR OFFICE OF POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST, NOR THE FALSE PROPHET.

... the Pope cannot become the Antichrist because the Pope is not a Jew, descended from King Daivd, nor is his religion Judaism.

And Satan's beast in the little horn will be "antichrist" .... against Jesus Christ

The term "antichrist" does not mean "instead of" Jesus Christ .... and this term is overused by many who do not understand exactly what it means .... a loose term at best

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Anti means instead of and/or against. That's the definition. (the) Christ means the King of Israel.... right out of the bible. As Jesus was on the cross....

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The "Anti" - instead of and against Jesus being the rightful king of Israel - "Christ" is someone coming who the Jews will embrace for a short time as their king.

This one is describe in both the prophets and Revelation with much detail

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There is nothing in the old testament identifying anyone specifically as the Antichrist. The coming of the Antichrist is from the New Testament alone, and a person has to go back to the old testament to see how that corresponds.

But from the old testament alone, Tanach to the Jews, there is no way to envision the Antichrist, and any Jew (Judaism) will tell you that the term is irrelevant to Judaism.

The term Antichrist is not found in Revelation, because the person is not committing the actions in Revelation as the Antichrist, but afterward as the beast.

Straightshot said:

You are looking in the wrong place D

Alexander never ruled the Middle East

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The little horn waxes strong from the territory of one of the former four breakup kingdoms of Alexander's Greek empire.

Of those four breakup kingdoms, the one that is north and west of Israel, is that once held by Cassandra. Of course that kingdom is long, long gone. It is not about the kingdom itself, but the territory - which is Greece. It is simply giving the location that he will be going to Israel, from.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

He conquered and then died .... neither did Athens rule and was on the wane

The Seleucid kings were the next rulers in the northern Middle East and the Ptolemaics ruled Egypt

These indigenous populations listed were not and will not be western Greeks [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38]

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There are no Selecuid's nor Ptolemy's for the end times. Those are family's. The prophecies in Daniel 11, regarding them, were fulfilled before Jesus's time. The end times in Daniel 11, begins in Daniel 11:36.

And the same will be the little horn's confederated Middle Eastern kingdom at the time of the end

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The little horn doesn't come from the direction of North and East of Israel. He comes from a direction North and West of Israel.

Again, the age old controversy that will be played out and is now setting up is the one between Issac and Ishmael still unsettled [this is recorded in your Bible] .... there is no controversy between Issac and the Greeks in scripture

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I am NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE GREEKS. The conflict is that Satan wants to be over God.

God is going to judge Islam in Gog/Magog. Immediately following Gog/Magog the end of Islam, the Antichrist coming out of Europe will begin the 7 years.

Douggg said:

Syria and Iraq are north and east of Israel - wrong direction.

And the person has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism to become the Antichrist. The "beast" is after the person has gone through the Antichrist stint. No Antichrist term in Revelation.

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What scripture or scriptures tell you the antichrist "has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism"?

Straightshot said:

"It is not about the kingdom itself, but the territory"

"There are no Selecuid's nor Ptolemy's for the end times"


I see a contradiction with your two statements above ... about territory, and then not about territory

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You are taking my commentary on Daniel 8 and misapplying it to Daniel 11.

Daniel 8:8-9 identify's the location from where the little horn as he prepares for war will come to Israel. Those two verses do not identify his kingdom.

Daniel 11:4-32 the kings of the south and north are the wars between the Ptolomeys and the Seleucids. Those are historic, over and done with. There is no Ptolomeys and Seleucids for the end times.

Beginning with Daniel 11:36 in the ends times, the kings of the north, south, east, west are leaders of global powers.

The prophetic visions are all about territory and the focus is on the Middle East and the indigenous populations contained therein .... not western extents

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Zechariah 14 is about all nations, not just nations of the Middle East.

And Revelation 16:
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Straightshot said:

I don't agree with you D .... so it would be better not to argue over and over and over on a public media forum

People get confused

So we will not continue on this subject

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You can leave if you want. But I choose to stay and post.

Straightshot said:

I don't agree with you D .... so it would be better not to argue over and over and over on a public media forum

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I've been waiting for all the futurists to offer up a cohesive "position" here on CF since I joined in 2002.

I've discovered however that time is no object.
I'm therefore convinced that eventually there will be a cohesive position finally adopted by all of today's futurists:

It's called preterism.

parousia70 said:

I've been waiting for all the futurists to offer up a cohesive "position" here on CF since I joined in 2002.

I've discovered however that time is no object.
I'm therefore convinced that eventually there will be a cohesive position finally adopted by all of today's futurists:

It's called preterism.

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Only God himself would get me to switch to that view, and I admit it most likely would not G while I'm in this current body. Preterism does not add up to what scripture plainly says without conflicting itself or having to do away with "plain" writings. Though while "futurists" have issues themselves (so in no way do I think their 100% correct), their eschatology as a "whole" appear to fit better with today's society issues and events than preterism ever could and has.

Postvieww said:

What scripture or scriptures tell you the antichrist "has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism"?

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A little background. God was the king of Israel until Israel wanted a man-king like the other nations instead. It was a big time sin.

1samuel10:

18 And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you:
19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes, and by your thousands.

1Samuel 12:12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the Lord your God was your king.

God is the rightful king of Israel and what made them a called and chosen people unlike the other nations. But they rejected God as their king, so God gave them Saul. After Saul sinned, God took the kingdom from him, and gave it to David, a man after God's own heart - as a forerunner to the messiah who would be God's plan to redeem the world.

The Lord of heaven entered this world as Jesus, the living temple of God, to take his place as the king of Israel - and to keep God's promise to David that he would always have a descendant on the throne of Israel.

Keep in mind that Jesus the true and rightful messiah, God as King of Israel, was also a Jew - because of that promise to David. The Antichrist thus has to be a Jew as well, to be perceived as the person in the Jews eyes as fulfilling that promise God made to David.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name [as their king], and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive [as their king].

1. In John 5:43, Jesus said that the Jews would embrace another coming in his own name - inferring that they would embrace someone else as their king, in terms of "the" promised messiah. Technically, messiah is a transliterated word for anointed - in biblical terms of the old testament, anointeds referred to the kings and priests. "The" messiah though is reference to one specific King of Israel to lead them and the world into the time of redemption, peace and harmony in the world, based upon Isaiah 11.

2. The early Christians were already aware of the "someone else than Jesus" person which was the term Antichrist - as John said in 1John2:18 that they had already heard that Antichrist shall come. Specifically, who first used the term is not known.

In 1John2:18, "as ye have heard" implies that they already were aware that antichrist was coming, but it doesn't say how they had become aware that antichrist was coming. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

3. Back in Deuteronomy 17:15 , God knowing that Israel would eventually reject him as king, told them never to have a king over them that wasn't one of themselves - that is an Israelite. So any of their kings has to be of the 12 tribes.

4. Regarding "the" messiah, he has to be descended from David. And thus is often referred to as the Son of David. The actual text says from Jesse, David's father, in Isaiah 11. The Jews (Judaism) also believe that Isaiah 11 is talking about the messiah. So in order to appear to them to be the messiah, the person who becomes the Antichrist, King of Israel, must be a Jew.

5. The Jews are not going to embrace anyone as their messiah - King of Israel - unless his religion is Judaism because the messiah to them, is supposed to them teach how to rightfully observe the Torah, guide for living. Being observant to Torah is the essence of Judaism. Unfortunately, Kabballah is also part of Judaism, and that is how the person is going to get his power, not his own.