God is love .. and the Fear of the Lord .. and Maturity in Christ

Gregory Thompson

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Godly fear or respect of God is generally defined by the old testament as the "beginning of wisdom" but the new testament writings say this same fear is cast out by the love that God is as we mature in it.
.
I recall when Jesus was first mentioned by God in the OT, when the people were all scared of dying and didn't like it .. and God said .. what you say is good .. so i will raise up a prophet from among your brothers .. and you must listen to what he says .. and in Acts the connection was made with this prophecy and Jesus .. Jesus is that prophet .. who takes away fear .. and gives us the love of God to grow within us .

.
So I would say that we should discuss the maturity factor in the relation between love and fear .. not so much one good and the other bad . in my experience I find we are less afraid of God the more we mature because the fear is a reaction of the body . the more our life is in the born again by the spirit mind of christ like entity that is created in us when we are born again by the holy spirit .. the more our life is in this .. the more love becomes instinctual .. though the body still is the tent .. and it still has fear . it still sins . it still does the flesh thing . but it is the new life within us .. that lives on after this body returns to the ashes and dust .
.
discuss . how does fear and love appear to you as you mature .. what did you think of it .. and what do you think of it .. and what direction do you see your perception of it going as you progress?
 

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Godly fear or respect of God is generally defined by the old testament as the "beginning of wisdom" but the new testament writings say this same fear is cast out by the love that God is as we mature in it.
.
I recall when Jesus was first mentioned by God in the OT, when the people were all scared of dying and didn't like it .. and God said .. what you say is good .. so i will raise up a prophet from among your brothers .. and you must listen to what he says .. and in Acts the connection was made with this prophecy and Jesus .. Jesus is that prophet .. who takes away fear .. and gives us the love of God to grow within us .

.
So I would say that we should discuss the maturity factor in the relation between love and fear .. not so much one good and the other bad . in my experience I find we are less afraid of God the more we mature because the fear is a reaction of the body . the more our life is in the born again by the spirit mind of christ like entity that is created in us when we are born again by the holy spirit .. the more our life is in this .. the more love becomes instinctual .. though the body still is the tent .. and it still has fear . it still sins . it still does the flesh thing . but it is the new life within us .. that lives on after this body returns to the ashes and dust .
.
discuss . how does fear and love appear to you as you mature .. what did you think of it .. and what do you think of it .. and what direction do you see your perception of it going as you progress?
I think you covered it in the first few words of the Op that fear and respect are the same thing in the context of the Lord. It's just a more or less thought out pov.
 
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The verses that I have placed in bold indicate that those who are mature have a healthy fear of God.

[BibleWorks 9, Search parameters: ‘Fear + God’] along with ['fear + Lord] which I added a few hours later after a number of posts had replied to this list.

  • NASB Luke 5:26 They were all struck with astonishment and began glorifying God; and they were filled with fear, saying, "We have seen remarkable things today."
  • NASB Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.
  • 16 Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!"
  • NASB Luke 18:2 saying, "In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man.
  • NASB Luke 18:4 "For a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, 'Even though I do not fear God nor respect man,
  • NASB Acts 19:17 This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified.
  • NASB Luke 23:40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
  • NASB Acts 7:32 'I AM THE GOD OF YOUR FATHERS, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM AND ISAAC AND JACOB.' Moses shook with fear and would not venture to look.
  • NASB Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.
  • NASB Acts 10:35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.
  • NASB Acts 13:16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:
  • NASB Acts 13:26 "Brethren, sons of Abraham's family, and those among you who fear God, to us the message of this salvation has been sent.

    . . .

  • NASB Romans 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
  • NASB 2 Corinthians 5:11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.
  • NASB 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
  • NASB Philippians 1:14 and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear.
  • NASB 1 Peter 2:17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
  • NASB 1 Peter 3:6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.
  • NASB Revelation 11:11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.
  • NASB Revelation 14:7 and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."
  • NASB Rev 15:4 "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."
  • NASB Revelation 19:5 And a voice came from the throne, saying, "Give praise to our God, all you His bond-servants, you who fear Him, the small and the great."

The Greek word for the 'fear' of God is phobos which is the generic word for fear in general.

Friberg Lexicon
28167 φόβος, ου, ὁ (1) active causing fear, source of fear, terror (RO 13.3; probably 1P 3.14); (2) passive; (a) in a negative sense fear, dread, alarm (2C 7.5; possibly 1P 3.14); (b) in a positive sense respect, reverence, awe, (wholesome) fear (RO 3.18); respect for those in authority (EP 6.5)​

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon (Thayer's Greek text does not copy & paste all that well.)
5605 fo,boj
fo,boj, fobou/, o` (fe,bomai; like fo,roj, tro,moj, po,noj, from fe,rw, tre,mw, pe,nomai), from Homer down, the Septuagint for ha'r.yI, dx;P;, hm'yae (terror), tyTixi (terror);

1. fear, dread, terror; in a subjective sense (ouvde,n evsti fo,boj eiv mh, prodosi,a tw/n avpo, logismou/ bohqhma,twn, Sap. 17:11; prosdoki,an le,gw kakou/ tou/to, ei;te fo,bon, ei;te de,oj kalei/te, Plato, Protag., p. 358 d.): universally, 1 John 4:18; fo,boj evpi, tina pi,ptei (Acts 19:17 L Tr); Rev. 11:11 Rec.; evpipi,ptei, Luke 1:12; Acts 19:17 (R G T WH; Rev. 11:11 L T Tr WH); evge,neto, Luke 1:65; Acts 5:5,11; lamba,nei tina, Luke 7:16 (Homer Iliad 11, 402); gi,netai ti,ni, Acts 2:43; plhsqh/nai fobou/, Luke 5:26; sune,cesqai fo,bw|, Luke 8:37; e;cein fo,bon, 1 Tim. 5:20 (Herodotus 8, 12); katerga,zesqai; ti,ni fo,bon, 2 Cor. 7:11; fobei/sqai fo,bon (see fobe,w, 2), Mark 9:41 ; Luke 2:9; with a genitive of the object added, 1 Pet. 3:14 (so Winer's Grammar, sec. 32, 2; others subject. genitive); avpo, fobou/, for fear, Luke 21:26; avpo, tou/ fobou/, for the fear, with which they were struck, Matt. 14:26; with a genitive of the object added, Matt. 28:4; eivj fo,bon, unto (that ye may) fear, Rom. 8:15; meta, fobou/, Matt. 28:8; with kai, tro,mou added, 2 Cor. 7:15; Eph. 6:5; Phil. 2:12; evn fo,bw| kai, evn tro,mw| (see tro,moj), 1 Cor. 2:3; tina evn fo,bw| sw,|zein (Rec.), evlean (L T Tr WH), with anxious heed lest ye be defiled by the wickedness of those whom ye are rescuing, Jude 1:23; plural fo,boi, feelings of fear, fears (Winer's Grammar, 176 (166)), 2 Cor. 7:5; fo,boj ti,noj, genitive of the object (our fear of one): tw/n VIoudai,wn, John 7:13; 19:38; 20:19; basanismou/, Rev. 18:10,15; qana,tou, Heb. 2:15 (Xenophon, mem. l, 4, 7). In an objective sense, that which strikes terror: fo,boj avgaqw/n e;rgwn, or more correctly (with L T Tr WH) tw/| avgaqw/| e;rgw|, a terror to (or for), Rom. 13:3.

2. reverence, respect (for authority, rank, dignity): Rom. 13:7; 1 Pet. 2:18; 3:16 (15); h` evn fo,bw| avnastrofh,, behavior coupled with (cf. evn, I. 5 e.) reverence for one's husband, 1 Pet. 3:2; fo,boj with a genitive of the object: tou/ kuri,ou, Acts 9:31; 2 Cor. 5:11; Cristou/, Eph. 5:21 (not Rec.); Qeou/, Rom. 3:18; 2 Cor. 7:1; (Eph. 5:21 Rec.); Qeou/ is omitted as suggested by the context, 1 Pet. 1:17; (often in the O. T. hw"hy> ta;r.yI and ~yhil{a/ ta;r.yI). (Synonyms: see deili,a, de,oj, at the end; cf. fobe,w.)*​

.....................

Edit: The following material was added in hours after the post was originated.

[fear + Christ] "phobos" GK5832/SC5401

  • NASB Ephesians 5:21 and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ. [NIV = 'reverence']
  • NASB Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;

.....................

"Sense of awe" is translated from 'phobos' where the Greek is literally "Fear came upon every soul..."
NASB Acts 2:43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.​

....................

"phobos" GK5832/SC5401

Slaves (Christian and non-Christian) told to fear their masters:
(Eph 6:5 NASB) Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;​

(Phi 2:12-13 NASB) So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

(1Ti 5:20 NASB) Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

(1Pe 1:17 NASB) If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

(1Pe 2:18 NASB) Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.

(1Pe 3:1-2 NASB) 1 Peter 3:1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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Godly fear or respect of God is generally defined by the old testament as the "beginning of wisdom"

And I agree with that. If you believe in God and believe that God will decide where you spend eternity, than those who have not made a decision should have fear and respect.

Are you talking about fear after being 'born again"? That is much, much different.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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Biblicist,

NASB Luke 5:26 They were all struck with astonishment and began glorifying God; and they were filled with fear, saying, "We have seen remarkable things today."

Luke 5:17-26
And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them. 18And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him. 19And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus. 20And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. 21And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? 22But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? 23Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? 24But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. 25And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. 26And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.


They were filled with fear after seeing a miracle and after hearing the Pharisees and Jesus talking. How's that applicable to "Mature Believers" as your opening sentence says?
 
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ToBeBlessed

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NASB Luke 18:2 saying, "In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man.
NASB Luke 18:4 "For a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, 'Even though I do not fear God nor respect man


Luke 18:1-7
And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

This one is not about mature Christians either. That's a parable.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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NASB Luke 23:40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?


Luke 23:39-43
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


This is the thief on the cross asking Jesus if He feared God when He was dying.



Ok, you must have just cut and pasted these....
 
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ToBeBlessed

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the new testament writings say this same fear is cast out by the love that God is as we mature in it.

Jesus is that prophet .. who takes away fear .. and gives us the love of God to grow within us .

.
So I would say that we should discuss the maturity factor in the relation between love and fear .. not so much one good and the other bad . in my experience I find we are less afraid of God the more we mature because the fear is a reaction of the body . the more our life is in the born again by the spirit mind of christ like entity that is created in us when we are born again by the holy spirit .. the more our life is in this .. the more love becomes instinctual .. though the body still is the tent .. and it still has fear . it still sins . it still does the flesh thing . but it is the new life within us .. that lives on after this body returns to the ashes and dust .
.
discuss . how does fear and love appear to you as you mature .. what did you think of it .. and what do you think of it .. and what direction do you see your perception of it going as you progress?

Fear is indeed cast out by love as you mature in Christ. If it has not then someone has stopped maturing somewhere down the line.

I see less fear for me in my future because I know how greatly I am loved and I know my heart so I'm not afraid.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Acts 9:31
So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplied.

It seems a mandatory part of growth yet has nothing to do with still having peace and comfort from the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:35
but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Maybe its part of working out salvation in fear and trembling, not being afraid of what others think, that sorta thing.
 
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:31 Then 3303 3767 had 2192 5707 the churches 1577 rest 1515 throughout 2596 all 3650 Judaea 2449 and 2532 Galilee 1056 and 2532 Samaria 4540, and were edified 3618 5746; and 2532 walking in 4198 5740 the fear 5401 of the Lord 2962, and 2532 in the comfort 3874 of the Holy 40 Ghost 4151, were multiplied 4129 5712.

10:35 But 235 in 1722 every 3956 nation 1484 he that feareth 5399 5740 him 846, and 2532 worketh 2038 5740 righteousness 1343, is 2076 5748 accepted 1184 with him 846.

Yup definately seems to mean scared muchly .. unless it refers to the be struck with amazement

Strongs Number: G5399

Orig: from 5401; to frighten, i.e. (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy, to be in awe of, i.e. revere:--be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence. G5401

Use: TDNT-9:189,1272 Verb

Heb Strong: H1481 H1672 H1763 H2342 H2730 H2865 H3025 H3372 H3372 H5128 H6206 H6342 H6399 H7264 H7493 H7760

1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
1a) to put to flight, to flee
1b) to fear, be afraid
1b1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
1b1a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
1b1b) of those struck with amazement
1b2) to fear, be afraid of one
1b3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
1c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience
 
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Biblicist

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Biblicist,

NASB Luke 5:26 They were all struck with astonishment and began glorifying God; and they were filled with fear, saying, "We have seen remarkable things today." . . .

They were filled with fear after seeing a miracle and after hearing the Pharisees and Jesus talking. How's that applicable to "Mature Believers" as your opening sentence says?
The information that I posted was not so much to prove a given position but simply to help those who do not have a lexicon on hand where they may be otherwise forced to rely on Strong's definitions.

It may have been a good idea not to have posted my opening line which would have allowed the lexical information to stand on its own. But the Scriptures are plain enough that both the unregenerate Jew and the regenerated Christian will naturally have a healthy fear of God; essentially, if someone does not have a respectful fear of God then they do not have the Spirit of God within them - that's just good theology which comes under Bible 101.
 
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I trust God, i'm not afraid of him . if fear means something else . then the writers of the passages should have used a different word .
You are probably succumbing to a more modernist understanding of fear which is something that most generations before us better understood. It's one thing to be fearful about walking out the front door or even talking to a neighbour, but if anyone claims that they do not have a respectful fear of the Creator God then they probably fail to understand his awesome Power and Majesty; or it could be a hangup with this deficient modernist perspective with fear.
 
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Ok, you must have just cut and pasted these....
Exactly, it is raw data only where the search parameters were [fear + God] and the material in the two lexicons has been provided so that people can make a better decision. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I should have provided the information "as is" without making any comments.
 
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Acts 9:31
So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplied.

It seems a mandatory part of growth yet has nothing to do with still having peace and comfort from the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:35
but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Maybe its part of working out salvation in fear and trembling, not being afraid of what others think, that sorta thing.
Thanks for those important Scriptures. I went back and added in [fear + Lord] to the original list which has brought up a few interesting Scriptures.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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But the Scriptures are plain enough that both the unregenerate Jew and the regenerated Christian will naturally have a healthy fear of God; essentially, if someone does not have a respectful fear of God then they do not have the Spirit of God within them - that's just good theology which comes under Bible 101.

I don't understand the 'respectful fear of God' part. So instead of misquoting you and telling you what you mean, I'll let you explain.

I had a 'respectful fear of God' earlier in my walk with God, but I think that was due to the fact that I did not know the bible very well. The more I know in the bible, the more secure I am in my salvation.

Why do people always make those statements like if you do not feel this, then .... To say whether or not someone has the Spirit of God with them is telling them that they do not have salvation. I don't understand how so many people feel they can make such statements. I think it ruins credibility.
 
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I don't understand the 'respectful fear of God' part. So instead of misquoting you and telling you what you mean, I'll let you explain.
My use of 'respectful fear of God' is a concession to the modernist way of thinking toward both fear in general and with fear toward God.

I had a 'respectful fear of God' earlier in my walk with God, but I think that was due to the fact that I did not know the bible very well. The more I know in the bible, the more secure I am in my salvation.
That does seem to create a bit of a conundrum in my view as I would expect that anyone who spends time in the Word would realise that God is certainly a (Ps. 94:1) "vengeful God" who is not to be messed with; we only need to look at Ananias and Sapphira as an example of this. My expanded post (#3) provides a lot of Scriptures to support my position. Does this mean that I am concerned with my eventual salvation, definitely not, but this does not mean that I can take liberties with my confidence and I know that if I try to 'do my own thing' that my loving Father will definitely discipline his child.

Why do people always make those statements like if you do not feel this, then .... To say whether or not someone has the Spirit of God with them is telling them that they do not have salvation. I don't understand how so many people feel they can make such statements. I think it ruins credibility.
Believe me, I have absolutely no doubt that you have a healthy fear of God but as I mentioned in an earlier post, it does seem that many contemporary (Western) Christians have a bit of illogical hangup with fear. So please do not take my remark as being intended toward you but I am thoroughly convinced that there are many professing "Christians" who I meet from time to time who are so full of sin that they are completely unable to fear who they do not (or no longer) know.
 
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The thing to think about is this:

To fear something means you respect it. It really does. You respect said things ability to effect you in some form or fashion. Soldiers are trained to respect and fear their enemies although such fear never is a cause to cower away in their presence. There is a quote and I can't for the life of me think who made it/said it but it goes like this, "Any soldier who is not afraid is a liar." Or something like that...

To fear the LORD is the same concept. You respect him, his power, his majesty, his holiness in view of your own. It should make you tremble. It should, but in the same sense cause us to rejoice in abundance. Paul wrote in the same letter (Philippians) both to rejoice in the Lord and to fear the Lord. So the two can and should go hand in hand. Our fear of him leads us to rejoicing in him because he has forgiven us and reconciled us.

As the Psalmist said, he does not treat us as our sins deserve....
 
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The thing to think about is this:

To fear something means you respect it. It really does. You respect said things ability to effect you in some form or fashion. Soldiers are trained to respect and fear their enemies although such fear never is a cause to cower away in their presence. There is a quote and I can't for the life of me think who made it/said it but it goes like this, "Any soldier who is not afraid is a liar." Or something like that...

To fear the LORD is the same concept. You respect him, his power, his majesty, his holiness in view of your own. It should make you tremble. It should, but in the same sense cause us to rejoice in abundance. Paul wrote in the same letter (Philippians) both to rejoice in the Lord and to fear the Lord. So the two can and should go hand in hand. Our fear of him leads us to rejoicing in him because he has forgiven us and reconciled us.

As the Psalmist said, he does not treat us as our sins deserve....
I doubt if I would be able to improve even an iota on your superb explanation.
 
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