Does the Pope Really Aprrove Spanking Children?

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Pope Francis to Dads: Spank Your Kids With Dignity!

By Frank Walker
Pewsitter.com



In the face of a barrage of Church-based quasi-feminism, and his castigation of absentee fathers last week, Pope Francis recently said some nice things about Dads.


A good father knows how to wait and knows how to forgive, from the depths of his heart. Certainly, he knows how to correct with firmness: he is not a weak father, complacent, sentimental. A father who knows how to chastise without belittling is the same as one who knows how to protect tirelessly". "The positive aspect" of the father figure was at the heart of Pope Francis' catechesis at the general audience today, following on from his lesson last Wednesday, on the "danger" of absentee fathers.


After lamenting the Ukraine conflict, Pope Francis talks about his own father, and the way he encouraged him to be wise, righteous, and firm.


"Every family - he added - Every family needs a father. Today we reflect on the value of his role, and I would like to begin from some expressions that are found in the Book of Proverbs, words that a father addresses to his son: "My son, if your heart is wise, my heart too will be glad. My soul will rejoice when your lips speak what is right" (Proverbs 23:15-16). One cannot express better the pride and emotion of a father who realizes that he has transmitted to his son what truly counts in life, namely, a wise heart. This father does not say: "I am proud of you because you are, in fact, just like me, because you repeat the things that I say and do." No, he says something far more important to him, which we can interpret thus:

"I will be happy every time that I see you act with wisdom, and I will be moved every time I hear you speak what is right. This is what I wanted to leave you, so that it would become something of yours: the attitude to feel and act, to speak and judge with wisdom and righteousness. And so that you would be able to be like this, I taught you things you did not know, I corrected errors that you did not see. I made you feel a profound and, at the same time, discreet affection, which perhaps you did not recognize fully when you were young and uncertain. I gave you a witness of rigor and firmness, which perhaps you did not understand, when you would only have wished for complicity and protection. I had to put myself first to the test of wisdom of heart, and to watch over excesses of sentiment and resentment, to bear the weight of the inevitable misunderstandings and find the right words to make myself understood. Now, when I see that you seek to be like this with your children, and with everyone, I am moved. I am happy to be your father." And that is what a wise father says, a mature father".


Next the Pope warns against overbearing fathers, encourages attentiveness and forgiveness, and then characteristically wanders into old-fashioned, politically incorrect territory.


"A father is well aware how much it costs to transmit this heritage: how much closeness, how much gentleness and how much firmness. However, what consolation and what reward is received when children honor to this heritage! It is a joy that compensates for every effort, that surpasses every misunderstanding and heals every wound. Hence, the first necessity is in fact this: that the father be present in the family. That he be close to his wife, to share everything - joys and sorrows, efforts and hopes. And that he be close to the children in their growth: when they play and when they are busy, when they are carefree and when they are anguished, when they express themselves and when they are silent, when they risk and when they are afraid, when they take a wrong step and when they find the way again. A father that is present, always! But to be present is not the same as controlling. Because fathers who are too controlling override the children, they do not let them grow.


"The Gospel speaks to us of the exemplarity of the Father who is in Heaven - the only one, says Jesus, who can be truly called "Good Father" (Cf. Mark 10:18). Everyone knows that extraordinary parable called the "Prodigal Son," or better of the "Merciful Father," which is found in Luke's Gospel (Cf. 15:11-32). How much dignity and how much tenderness in the father's waiting, who is at the door of his home waiting for his son to return! Fathers should be patient, many times there is nothing else that can be done other than to wait. Pray and wait with patience, gentleness, magnanimity and mercy. A good father is able to wait and to forgive from the depth of his heart. Of course, he is also able to correct with firmness: he is not a weak, compliant and sentimental father. The father who is able to correct without discouraging is the same one who is able to protect tirelessly. One time, I heard a father, in a meeting with married couples, say: "I, sometimes, must hit my child a little, but never in the face, to not degrade him. How beautiful! He knows the sense of dignity! He must punish but does it justly and moves forward".


Be sure to spank your children with dignity! Now we can tell our misbehaving youngsters it came straight from the Pope himself.

Francis to Dads: Spank Your Kids With Dignity! | PewSitter.com
 
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judechild

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Have you got a good source on this one?

Pope tells Dads to spend time with their children Vatican Radio

It does not contain a full transcript, although I have L'Osservatore Romano in front of me which does contain the Pope relating a story of a father telling him that sometimes he must beat/spank (picchare) his children - "but not in the face, so as not to humiliate them." The Pope does seem to approve of it in what follows.
 
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ebia

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billvelek

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Is there anyone here who has attended a Catholic School prior to the current age of whimps', who hasn't witnessed a nun, priest, or brother apply corporal punishment? Typically it was a ruler across the knuckles in my school, and in high school I remember occasionally seeing a shortened broomstick used across the back of the thighs (but not to me; I was good). My Mom and Dad spanked us (sparingly, but definitely when we deserved it, on the backside with a bare-hand, hairbrush, or belt), and we turned out okay. My wife was spanked with a switch on the back of her legs (her Mom would make the kids go out to the back yard and pick their own switch -- a thin branch from a bush) -- and my wife's siblings all turned out okay. My wife, on the other hand ... well, I still haven't gotten that wildcat under control, even after these 41 years. :)

And we used corporal punishment on our 8 kids, and they all turned out great: no jailbirds and no junkies, and pretty responsible and respectful adults.

Someone here said that they teach and their worse kids were subject to corporal punishment at home. I think my wife, who taught kindergarten for most of her over thirty years of teaching, would probably disagree. I say that because of the many times I've heard her complain that the parents who said she could not spank their kid nor send their kid to the office to be spanked (because the parents chose to no permit it), were usually the worst. I can't say whether or not those parents are too lenient at home, but when their kids refuse to listen to the teacher and they can't be spanked by anyone, and they can't be kept in detention because they would miss the school bus, those kids quickly gain the upper hand and they know and ACT like it -- and unfortunately those distractions help cheat the rest of the kids of a better education. If it were me, if the parents won't allow spanking, then they can come to the school to retrieve their little spoiled brat whenever he/she acts up, and if it happens more than a few times they can home-school put their kid in a private school at their expense, unless they decide to me a bit more reasonable about school discipline.

Your brother in Christ,

Bill Velek
 
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ebia

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Is there anyone here who has attended a Catholic School prior to the current age of whimps', who hasn't witnessed a nun, priest, or brother apply corporal punishment? Typically it was a ruler across the knuckles in my school, and in high school I remember occasionally seeing a shortened broomstick used across the back of the thighs (but not to me; I was good). My Mom and Dad spanked us (sparingly, but definitely when we deserved it, on the backside with a bare-hand, hairbrush, or belt), and we turned out okay. My wife was spanked with a switch on the back of her legs (her Mom would make the kids go out to the back yard and pick their own switch -- a thin branch from a bush) -- and my wife's siblings all turned out okay. My wife, on the other hand ... well, I still haven't gotten that wildcat under control, even after these 41 years. :)

And we used corporal punishment on our 8 kids, and they all turned out great: no jailbirds and no junkies, and pretty responsible and respectful adults.

Someone here said that they teach and their worse kids were subject to corporal punishment at home. I think my wife, who taught kindergarten for most of her over thirty years of teaching, would probably disagree. I say that because of the many times I've heard her complain that the parents who she could not spank nor send to the office to be spanked (because the parents chose to no permit it), were usually the worst. I can't say whether or not those parents are too lenient at home, but when they refuse to listen to the teacher and they can't be spanked by anyone, and they can't be kept in detention because they would miss the school bus, those kids quickly gain the upper hand and they know and ACT like it -- and unfortunately those distractions help cheat the rest of the kids of a better education. If it were me, if the parents won't allow spanking, then they can come to the school to retrieve their little brat, and if it happens more than a few times they can home-school put their kid in a private school at their expense, unless they decide to me a bit more reasonable about school discipline.

Your brother in Christ,

Bill Velek
Schools in Victoria stopped using corporal punishment many years ago. The Catholic system was the first to abandon it, followed by the public sector.

There are a tiny number of private schools that still do where parents want in Australia I think.

It doesn't work. Neither does detention or suspension. For some kids it gets compliance at that moment, but it doesn't teach kids how to behave, only to solve problems through force and violence. Restorative practices and actively teaching behavior are much more effective.

If a kid gets their algebra wrong, or fails to analyse the forcas that led up to WWI to an adequate standard, do we assume that hitting them will magically correct that?
 
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billvelek

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SNIP ...

If a kid gets their algebra wrong, or fails to analyse the forcas that led up to WWI to an adequate standard, do we assume that hitting them will magically correct that?

... assume ...??? No, I don't think so. The only thing that our school administrators and teachers seem to assume is how easily our children are traumatized. Sometimes I'm sure that they ARE traumatized -- as when there has been a real school shooting, or a class mate is killed in a car accident, and things like that. But sometimes I'm also sure that they are NOT traumatized -- as when children at play pretend to shoot someone, or when they actually lose a competitive game, or they haven't found a date for the prom, or when someone else earns a scholastic award (so we can't possibly have an awards dinner because it might hurt the feelings of those who haven't gotten off their lazy but.ts to study). [Breathe, Bill ... breathe.]

But most importantly about your post, I have NEVER ... repeat 'NEVER' ... seen any child ever spanked at school for academic failings; of course, I did get it from my father when I brought home a bad report card -- but I guess that's why I later became a lawyer. I'll bet that taught him. ;-)

Your brother in Christ,

Bill Velek
 
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billvelek

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SNIP ...

If a kid gets their algebra wrong, or fails to analyse the forcas that led up to WWI to an adequate standard, do we assume that hitting them will magically correct that?

... assume ...??? No, I don't think so. The only thing that our school administrators and teachers seem to assume is how easily our children are traumatized. Sometimes I'm sure that they ARE traumatized -- as when there has been a real school shooting, or a class mate is killed in a car accident, and things like that. But sometimes I'm also sure that they are NOT traumatized -- as when children at play pretend to shoot someone, or when they actually lose a competitive game, or they haven't found a date for the prom, or when someone else earns a scholastic award (so we can't possibly have an awards dinner because it might hurt the feelings of those who haven't gotten off their lazy but.ts to study). [Breathe, Bill ... breathe.]

P.S.: Regarding scholastic performance, I have NEVER ... repeat 'NEVER' ... observed a pupil disciplined in school because of failing a test, not turning in homework, etc. Corporal punishment was reserved for enforcing order and discipline. But my Dad, on the other hand, would let me have it pretty good if I brought home a bad report card; he worked hard in a factory and wanted better for his kids ... and I went on to become a lawyer. We both think the spankings were worth it.

P.P.S.: Sorry for the double-post, but the Internet was acting weird and my former post wasn't showing up.

Your brother in Christ,

Bill Velek
 
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ebia

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P.S.: Regarding scholastic performance, I have NEVER ... repeat 'NEVER' ... observed a pupil disciplined in school because of failing a test, not turning in homework, etc.
Precisely.

Nobody in their right mind would think that anything else could successfully be taught by hitting people, so why do people persist in thinking behaviour can be?
 
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Inkfingers

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Precisely.

Nobody in their right mind would think that anything else could successfully be taught by hitting people, so why do people persist in thinking behaviour can be?

Falling into a bed of nettles is a far more effective lesson than being told about how they sting...
 
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ebia

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Falling into a bed of nettles is a far more effective lesson than being told about how they sting...
If what you want the kid to learn is that dad is dangerous that would be a successful analogy.

If what you want them to learn is that they too can solve problems through hitting people it might get close enough with a little artistic licence.

Mind you, it beats trying to teach the parents through starving the children.
 
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billvelek

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Precisely.

Nobody in their right mind would think that anything else could successfully be taught by hitting people, so why do people persist in thinking behaviour can be?

That's not what I said. The school doesn't use corporal punishment for academic failure because they couldn't possibly be sure of the reason -- whether there is a learning disability, lack of intelligence, or home dysfunction.

My father, on the other hand, OCCASIONALLY used corporal punishment as an incentive to cause me to buckle down and study -- which then produced the results he wanted -- good grades. Today some people prefer to bribe their kids with money if they get good grades. Both methods work.

Your brother in Christ,

Bill Velek
 
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