Jordanian government official: ISIS is not Islamic, mockery of Allah is not Christian

"He added that Jewish settlements established in the Palestinian territories 'have nothing to do with the Jewish faith.'”

I disagree with that part of what he said. It says clearly in the Holy Bible that God promised that land (which actually extends far beyond the borders of Israel) to the Jewish people. And Moses made it clear that God promised them that land despite their wickedness. Therefore, the argument made by some that their sins have forfeited their God-given right to the land doesn't hold water. People who don't believe in our religion may have a problem with accepting this, but it is not true to say that it has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

LivingWordUnity said:

"He added that Jewish settlements established in the Palestinian territories 'have nothing to do with the Jewish faith.'”

I disagree with that part of what he said.

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Of Course you do.

It says clearly in the Holy Bible that God promised that land (which actually extends far beyond the borders of Israel) to the Jewish people.

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Any Jews? Like does that include Dr Laura And Rosanne Barr and Whoopie Goldberg- Were they promised the land FOREVER??

And Does it include the descendants of the Russian Khazars who Converted en masse to the post Christian, non Mosaic Religion of Talmudic Judaism? or was the land CONDITIONALLY promised to Abraham and His Direct Descendants ONLY?

And Moses made it clear that God promised them that land despite their wickedness.

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Like the Clarity Moses speaks with here?:

Deuteronomy 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but will be utterly destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

Therefore, the argument made by some that their sins have forfeited their God-given right to the land doesn't hold water.

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So "Utterly Destroyed, brought to nothing and plucked from off the land which you go to possess" doesn't mean what it says?

What did Moses mean then?

People who don't believe in our religion may have a problem with accepting this, but it is not true to say that it has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

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Modern Day, man made, Post Christian, Talmudic Judaism has nothing to do with the God Ordained, Pre Christian, Mosaic delivered, Covenanted Hebrew Religion of the Bible.

Today's Jews do not share anything in common with the pre desolation Hebrews. They don't practice the same religion, they do not exist in any sort of covenant relationship with God and they do not share any special, unique genetic relationship beyond the general genetics of the Human Family.

parousia70 said:

Any Jews?

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Any according to how being a Hebrew is defined in the Old Testament.

This statement reminds me of what our Popes have said about true Islam being non-violent. I agree with this official's statements as the thread title states them.

parousia70 said:

Of Course you do.



Any Jews? Like does that include Dr Laura And Rosanne Barr and Whoopie Goldberg- Were they promised the land FOREVER??

And Does it include the descendants of the Russian Khazars who Converted en masse to the post Christian, non Mosaic Religion of Talmudic Judaism? or was the land CONDITIONALLY promised to Abraham and His Direct Descendants ONLY?



Like the Clarity Moses speaks with here?:

Deuteronomy 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but will be utterly destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.




So "Utterly Destroyed, brought to nothing and plucked from off the land which you go to possess" doesn't mean what it says?

What did Moses mean then?



Modern Day, man made, Post Christian, Talmudic Judaism has nothing to do with the God Ordained, Pre Christian, Mosaic delivered, Covenanted Hebrew Religion of the Bible.

Today's Jews do not share anything in common with the pre desolation Hebrews. They don't practice the same religion, they do not exist in any sort of covenant relationship with God and they do not share any special, unique genetic relationship beyond the general genetics of the Human Family.

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In life, is there any greater affirmation than your foes' unwillingness to respond to you point-by-point? Savor these moments when they world concedes that everything you know and believe is correct. You might not be right all the time, but enjoy it when you are.

And now Jordan seems to have responded to ISIS.

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If ISIS is not Islamic, Mohammed was not Islamic either (because they are doing what HE did).

LivingWordUnity said:

"He added that Jewish settlements established in the Palestinian territories 'have nothing to do with the Jewish faith.'”

I disagree with that part of what he said. It says clearly in the Holy Bible that God promised that land (which actually extends far beyond the borders of Israel) to the Jewish people. And Moses made it clear that God promised them that land despite their wickedness. Therefore, the argument made by some that their sins have forfeited their God-given right to the land doesn't hold water. People who don't believe in our religion may have a problem with accepting this, but it is not true to say that it has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

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The people who call themselves Jews in Israel are not the ones the Bible is speaking about. Modern Judaism is Talmudic Judaism which was developed over time by the descendants of the Pharisees. Jesus didn't think very highly of these people.

If we had the ability to trace our ancestry back thousands of years, I'm sure most people could find a distant ancestor which connects them to Abraham. If most people on earth can do this then saying they are entitled because they are the descendants of Abraham is meaningless. The true descendants of Abraham are the ones who obey God just like Abraham did and modern Jews do not meet this criteria because they have rejected Jesus.

LivingWordUnity said:

Any according to how being a Hebrew is defined in the Old Testament.

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Well, you must then agree that rules out ANY modern day "Jew", since not one single Jew today fits the Old testament definition of a "Hebrew".

LivingWordUnity said:

"He added that Jewish settlements established in the Palestinian territories 'have nothing to do with the Jewish faith.'”

I disagree with that part of what he said. It says clearly in the Holy Bible that God promised that land (which actually extends far beyond the borders of Israel) to the Jewish people. And Moses made it clear that God promised them that land despite their wickedness. Therefore, the argument made by some that their sins have forfeited their God-given right to the land doesn't hold water. People who don't believe in our religion may have a problem with accepting this, but it is not true to say that it has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

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^Compare what I said with what I just found in this Vatican document about the Jewish people.

The Pontifical Biblical Commission: The Jewish People And Their Sacred Scriptures In The Christian Bible
Also see this quotation:

"Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures." - Nostra Aetate (in our time)

LivingWordUnity said:

^Compare what I said with what I just found in this Vatican document about the Jewish people.

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Deuteronomy 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but will be utterly destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

Deuteronomy 28:63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

I'll ask again.
Does "Utterly Perish from the land, Destroyed, brought to nothing and plucked from off the land which you go to possess" mean what it says?

If you believe not, please provide your alternate interpretation for these specific verses.

Were they merely Empty Threats perhaps?

I showed how my interpretation is consistent with how the Church interprets Scripture in regard to the Jewish people.

But I am curious as to how you interpret the verses I posted?

So far you haven't shown us ANY interpretation of them.
What do you say they mean?

Here... I'll demonstrate a possible format for you to use.
I'll post some relevant scriptures then comment in red on how I understand them in regards to the land covenant/promise.

You can simply copy these verses, and superimpose your comments on what you understand each verse means over my comments... hopefully that will make it easier for you to engage.

GENESIS 17:8, 14: "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. . . . And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." The covenant and land grant were conditional on being circumcised.

EXODUS 19:5: Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine." The covenant is conditional on the obedience of the Israelites.

NUMBERS 14:30: "Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein. . . " Because of Israel's disobedience, God delayed their entry into the land for almost 40 years until the generation of the rebels had died. If the possession of the land was unconditional, the Israelites would have been able to enter Canaan immediately, in spite of their disobedience. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Israel's possession of the land was not unconditional.

DEUTERONOMY 4:25-26: "When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it: ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed." Possession of the land is conditional, and would be lost if the people disobey and/or commit idolatry.

DEUTERONOMY 7:12-13: "Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee." Possession of the land is conditional on hearkening to God's judgments. This passage, and other covenant passages such as Deuteronomy 11, are full of "ifs" - how can the covenant be considered unconditional if it is totally dependent on the obedience of the Israelites? And why would God make a covenant with His people that includes no incentives for good behavior and no sanctions for disobedience?

DEUTERONOMY 11:16-17: "Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them: And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you." See also Deuteronomy 11:31-32: "For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein. And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day." "Possess" and "observe" go together as a package deal - if the Jews are to continue to possess the land, they must observe God's statutes. If they fail to do so, they will be removed from the land.

JOSHUA 23:15-16: "Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you." Possession of the land is conditional on keeping the covenant.

1 KINGS 9:6-9: "But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them: and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight: and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people: And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss: and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house? And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil." Possession of the land is conditional on keeping God's commandments. See also parallel passage in 2 Chronicles 7:19-22, "Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them." Ultimately, the land is not really Israel's land - it is God's land.

2 KINGS 21:8-9: "Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them. But they hearkened not: and Manasseh seduced them to do more evil than did the nations whom the LORD destroyed before the children of Israel." Possession of the land is conditional on keeping the law of Moses.

EZRA 9:12, 14: "Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever. . . . Should we again break the commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? Wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping? Possession of the land is conditional on not intermarrying with the heathen.

NEHEMIAH 1:8-9: "Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations: but if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there." Possession of the land, and restoration after being removed from the land, are both conditional on keeping the law of Moses. At this time, 445 BC, the Jews were in the process of being restored to the land after being taken into captivity in 586 BC. Their restoration to the land was conditional upon obedience.

JEREMIAH 7:3-6: "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever." The promise that the Jews would dwell in Palestine "forever" is clearly conditional on their making a drastic change in their moral condition. See also Jeremiah 9:13-16: "Because they have forsaken my law . . . I will scatter them also among the heathen, whom neither they nor their fathers have known: and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them."

JEREMIAH 44:22: "So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day." This was spoken by Jeremiah to Jewish refugees in Egypt, shortly after all the Jews in Palestine had been ejected from the land as a result of the Babylonian conquest in 586 BC. If the land grant was unconditional, why would God break His promise and kick His people out of the land as He clearly did in 586 BC? Or could it be that God never made such an unconditional promise, and that His covenant with the Jews was conditional?

LAMENTATIONS 1:10: "The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her pleasant things: for she hath seen that the heathen entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command that they should not enter into thy congregation." The promise of God that the heathen would not enter into and destroy the sanctuary in Jerusalem was conditional upon Judah's obedience. Judah did not obey God, and as a result, the adversary was allowed to conquer Jerusalem and lay it waste in 586 BC.

EZEKIEL 33:24-26: "Son of man, they that inhabit those wastes of the land of Israel speak, saying, Abraham was one, and he inherited the land: but we are many; the land is given us for inheritance. Wherefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ye eat with the blood, and lift up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land? Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile every one his neighbour's wife: and shall ye possess the land?" This was spoken immediately after Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC and the people taken away into captivity. God ordained that Nebuchadnezzar should take the Jews into captivity away from their land. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Israel's possession of the land of Israel was not unconditional and was not FOREVER, since the 70 year captivity falls inside the time span of FOREVER.

MATTHEW 21:43: "Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." See also Matthew 23:38, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Within one generation after Christ spoke these words to the Pharisees, the Romans came in 70 AD and destroyed Jerusalem and its inhabitants, as Christ had predicted (Matthew 23:35-36, Luke 19:41-44). Most of the surviving Jews were removed from Palestine, by Titus and by Emperor Hadrian 70 years later. The "kingdom" and "house" of the Jews, which included the land grant, were taken away from them because they rejected the Law of Moses, especially Deuteronomy 18:15-19, which commanded them to receive their Messiah when He came. Instead of receiving Him, they crucified Him. The Kingdom which was rejected by the unregenerate Jews was given instead to the Jewish and Gentile Christian believers, and the land promise to them is now heavenly in nature, not earthly (Galatians 4:25-26, Hebrews 11:13-16).

parousia70 said:

But I am curious as to how you interpret the verses I posted?

So far you haven't shown us ANY interpretation of them.
What do you say they mean?

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It doesn't make a difference. I made a statement. Then you disagreed with it. Then I showed how my statement was consistent with what the Church teaches. So whatever your quotes are isn't going to change that. I don't have to prove you wrong if I've proven that I was right.

Have we become a Protestant web site where we have our own personal interpretations of Scripture and our understandings of doctrine? Having these, we then go to Scripture to find verses that support our understanding.

I don't think that this is the Catholic Tradition. Rather, we go to the Church to see how the Church has interpreted various doctrines and aspects of Scripture.

At one point this was a great debating issue, especially with Protestants. The Church saw the need to provide guidance, and provided the document that LWU has quoted from.

I agree with LWU's process when there is a dispute. Look to the Vatican and see how the Vatican treats the Jewish people and how they teach us with regard to the underlying Scriptures. This he has done.
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We can disagree whether settlements are reasonable or not. What we cannot reasonably do is argue that Jews are not our ancestors in faith, that Jews were promised land, and that Jews as a people are to be respected by Catholics.

BTW, when Jews become Catholics, they do not "convert". They complete their faith.

The Jordanian government needs to be reminded that Chrstians are not burning mosques, raping woman, slaughtering muslims, lighting humans on fire, invading countries in Gods name.
Muslims are.