The Midas Touch - WOF ONLY PLEASE

dkbwarrior

Favoured of the Lord
Sep 19, 2006
4,186
511
58
Tulsa, Oklahoma
✟14,349.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Here is the promised thread on the book by Kenneth E. Hagin entitled "The Midas Touch". I am requesting that only those that are WOF comment on this thread please. To start, I would like a roll call to see who wants to be involved in this thread. Please post an acknowledgement if you have a copy and wish to participate in the discussion.

What we are going to do is discuss the book, preferably chapter by chapter. It is a good book, IMHO, as all of dads books were, but I do personally have a couple small disagreements with some items. Although, to be fair, after re-reading it again this past week, my concerns seem rather minuscule in comparison to the totality of the volume. I seem to recall having more issues last time I read it, but then that was several years ago, and I have (hopefully) grown and matured in my faith somewhat since that time.

Lets take one chapter a week. I will give the rest of this week for people to acknowledge participation, and then we will start with chapter one next Monday.

Peace...
 

hhodgson

Semper-fi
Supporter
Sep 20, 2011
1,948
387
75
Delphos, Ohio
✟612,832.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Here is the promised thread on the book by Kenneth E. Hagin entitled "The Midas Touch". I am requesting that only those that are WOF comment on this thread please. To start, I would like a roll call to see who wants to be involved in this thread. Please post an acknowledgement if you have a copy and wish to participate in the discussion.

What we are going to do is discuss the book, preferably chapter by chapter. It is a good book, IMHO, as all of dads books were, but I do personally have a couple small disagreements with some items. Although, to be fair, after re-reading it again this past week, my concerns seem rather minuscule in comparison to the totality of the volume. I seem to recall having more issues last time I read it, but then that was several years ago, and I have (hopefully) grown and matured in my faith somewhat since that time.

Lets take one chapter a week. I will give the rest of this week for people to acknowledge participation, and then we will start with chapter one next Monday.

Peace...

hmm!...
891_zpsc7749185.gif
---------->
47b20s01_zps61c773f7.gif
Bring it on dkb! Should be an excellent thread especially since we have "all matured' and are walking in Love... If approved, let's have this thread be a learning experience for each other and the viewers. We need to remember that we are being watched. Let the LOVE of God through Word of Faith shine...

I'll order the book right away... Amazon, here I come (again)!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkbwarrior
Upvote 0

ABlessedAnomaly

Teacher of the Word
Apr 28, 2006
2,832
261
Arizona
✟17,809.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
To start, I would like a roll call to see who wants to be involved in this thread.
Awesomeness! I'm in.

Lets take one chapter a week. I will give the rest of this week for people to acknowledge participation, and then we will start with chapter one next Monday.
So what're your thoughts?

All in this thread? If so, only DKB triggers the next chapter, let's say by responding to his own OP. (I used Hybrid mode and that organizes well.)

Please, Please, Please.....
If "all in one", can I please, please, please get participants to respond by clicking on the 'QUOTE' button IN THE POST you are responding to. DO NOT use the 'POST REPLY' buttons at the top and bottom of the thread. DO NOT use the 'QUICK REPLY' window at the bottom of the thread. The 'QUOTE' button will link your response to the post you are commenting on. (You guys in Linear mode won't see a difference between the two, but there is a major difference in Hybrid!)​

Or a thread per chapter? In which case, sure they get all out of order but hey. If "thread per chapter" the OP should CLEARLY state the chapter being discussed and stray cats who comment later should be corrected if they stray.

If everyone can do the 'QUOTE' button (which I know everyone can't), I like the 'all in one'.


However it proceeds: welcome back in full force DKB!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkbwarrior
Upvote 0

victoryword

Senior Veteran
Jul 11, 2003
4,000
240
61
Visit site
✟20,370.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Here is the promised thread on the book by Kenneth E. Hagin entitled "The Midas Touch". I am requesting that only those that are WOF comment on this thread please. To start, I would like a roll call to see who wants to be involved in this thread. Please post an acknowledgement if you have a copy and wish to participate in the discussion.

What we are going to do is discuss the book, preferably chapter by chapter. It is a good book, IMHO, as all of dads books were, but I do personally have a couple small disagreements with some items. Although, to be fair, after re-reading it again this past week, my concerns seem rather minuscule in comparison to the totality of the volume. I seem to recall having more issues last time I read it, but then that was several years ago, and I have (hopefully) grown and matured in my faith somewhat since that time.

Lets take one chapter a week. I will give the rest of this week for people to acknowledge participation, and then we will start with chapter one next Monday.

Peace...

Although I can't be here every day, I do want to participate. Have to pull mine off the shelf and dust it off. It has been a few years since I have read the book but like you I had some minor disagreements with Dad Hagin in a few areas. However, I was so elated that he finally took some of the extreme prosperity teachings to task that I was able to easily overlook those minor disagreements.

Personally I was becoming really embarrassed by a lot of the stuff I was hearing taught and the extreme over-emphasis on some of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkbwarrior
Upvote 0

dkbwarrior

Favoured of the Lord
Sep 19, 2006
4,186
511
58
Tulsa, Oklahoma
✟14,349.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So I count HH, ABM, VW, NF, TF, and GW so far.

I think we will try it all in one thread to start Bob, and see how it goes. But if necessary I will break it up. There is alot of good stuff in the first 5 chapters, awesome stuff really, and some of the same information can be found in other books of his such as "Biblical Keys To Financial Prosperity" (which I am reading in conjunction with "The Midas Touch") and "I Believe In Visions".

I don't really have any issues until chapter six, but it will take us a while to get there anyways. I will prepare my first post this weekend and post it by Monday.

I can't be on every day either Troy, so no worries, that is why I am gonna take it slow and do one chapter a week. Lots of information to look at, and not alot of spare time. But I am committed to seeing it through, as I gave my word on it.

Welcome to the conversation GraceWalker, and to the forum! I sent you some reps to get you started!

See ya'll soon!

Peace...
 
Upvote 0

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,791
2,913
✟277,188.00
Faith
Word of Faith
So I count HH, ABM, VW, NF, TF, and GW so far.

I think we will try it all in one thread to start Bob, and see how it goes. But if necessary I will break it up. There is alot of good stuff in the first 5 chapters, awesome stuff really, and some of the same information can be found in other books of his such as "Biblical Keys To Financial Prosperity" (which I am reading in conjunction with "The Midas Touch") and "I Believe In Visions".

I don't really have any issues until chapter six, but it will take us a while to get there anyways. I will prepare my first post this weekend and post it by Monday.

I can't be on every day either Troy, so no worries, that is why I am gonna take it slow and do one chapter a week. Lots of information to look at, and not alot of spare time. But I am committed to seeing it through, as I gave my word on it.

Welcome to the conversation GraceWalker, and to the forum! I sent you some reps to get you started!

See ya'll soon!

Peace...
:wave:
I've studied the Introduction as well.

The last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are a great synopsis of:
1. What point KH is trying to make with his book
2. Who he's talking to
3. Why he's written the book.

I think those last 7 paragraphs might help clarify what he means in the other chapters, especially the "correction" chapters.

I believe KH has been greatly misunderstood on the 3 points I mentioned, and people have drawn wrong conclusions about he says and means.

The last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are:
1 paragraph BEFORE the heading Finding Balance Between Extremes and 6 paragraphs that follow that heading.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dkbwarrior
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dkbwarrior

Favoured of the Lord
Sep 19, 2006
4,186
511
58
Tulsa, Oklahoma
✟14,349.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
:wave:
I've studied the Introduction as well.

The last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are a great synopsis of:
1. What point KH is trying to make with his book
2. Who he's talking to
3. Why he's written the book.

I think those last 7 paragraphs might help clarify what he means in the other chapters, especially the "correction" chapters.

I believe KH has been greatly misunderstood on the 3 points I mentioned, and people have drawn wrong conclusions about he says and means.

The last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are:
1 paragraph BEFORE the heading Finding Balance Between Extremes and 6 paragraphs that follow that heading.

This is good stuff Truthfrees, you should post here the rest that you pm'd me. It would fit nicely here.

Peace...
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

dkbwarrior

Favoured of the Lord
Sep 19, 2006
4,186
511
58
Tulsa, Oklahoma
✟14,349.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Thank you Mike, for the link. I am very sorry guys, my youngest daughter had a sleep over Saturday night for her birthday, we had 14 10-11 year old girls in the playroom all night doing Karoake and sing-alongs till 2:00 am, so I didn't get anything done this weekend, and today I have to go to the city for a meeting. I probably wont get my first chapter post in until Tuesday, or Wednesday. However, the rest of you feel free to post your thoughts on Chapter one, and/or the introduction like Truthfrees did.

In regards to the introduction. let me say this. This was the only place I had a real issue until chapter 6, and it was in the area that TF highlighted. I think KH did a good job of explaining the purpose of the book, and I agree with him on all the main points in the section Finding Balance Between Extremes, except one. That is, I agree with the middle of the road analogy, that there have (and are) extremes that need to be addressed where some have found themselves in a ditch on either side of the road, that there is no lasting joy in the things of this world including money (or the accumulation of wealth for wealth's sake), and that KH had some great revelation in this regard. My one problem is with the way in which he described the extremes, and who he is speaking to, which I believe to be inaccurate, and essentially a straw man.

Let me approach it this way. I am a debater. I love to debate. But one debating technique that I hate is to misrepresent another's position. I try very hard to be accurate in my representations of others arguments, because the purpose of debate in my mind is to convince the person that I am debating with, not to sway the audience. This is a pet peeve of mine. Many debaters like to misrepresent another's position, and then argue against the misrepresentation. It is often called building a straw man. People tend to do this for a variety of reasons; first, because it allows one to draw a starker contrast between views/issues when those differences are somewhat opaque; second, it can make the other persons position look less tenable and/or unjustifiable; and third, it simply makes the argument easier to win in front of an audience who may not be fully versed in the finer points of the argument.

What Kenneth Hagin does in the third paragraph is essentially build a straw man. He says this, "...there are people preaching that getting rich is the main focus of faith, that God's main concern is your material well-being, and that money is the true measure of spirituality". I would like to know who these people are. I have listened to many of the most prominent 'prosperity preachers' in the WOF movement, and I have never heard any of these three statements, and I am relatively certain that if asked, none of them would agree with this characterization. That doesn't mean that there may not be some out there that I don't know of that preach these views, but if so, I don't know who they are, nor are they mainstream WOF. Though we don't know exactly who Kenneth Hagin had in mind (although I have some ideas on that score), I think it can be assumed with some degree of certainty that they were within the accepted circle of known faith ministers of the time, and not some out in the field (like Rev Ike) that were not a part of the faith movement at all. If they were outside of the faith movement all together, there would be no need for KH to 'correct' them, nor would they care what he had to say.

Now, I would be the first to admit, that there are some in the faith movement whose focus and actions were/are seemingly entirely about money, and one may easily come to the conclusion from their ACTIONS and FOCUS that they believed that getting rich is the main focus of faith, that God's main concern is your material well-being, and that money is the true measure of spirituality, but I can almost guarantee you that if you asked them, they would flat out deny that to be the case. In either case, KH doesn't say that some ministers 'give this impression'; rather, he says that "...there are people preaching..." this. If anyone disagrees with me on this, then I challenge you to find some quotes of WOF ministers teaching any of those three principles and post the reference and where we can find it. I don't believe you will be successful, because I have never myself personally heard such a thing.

And this is what I meant by a straw man. Why does KH state that he is addressing something when it isn't really happening? I personally am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and relegate this to simple hyperbole to get a point across, in which case it really isn't that big of a deal; but on the other hand, it is a big deal, because he is setting the stage here for an argument on an issue that doesn't really exist in the form that he is defining it. Are there extremes? Certainly, we can all agree on that point. Do they need to be addressed? Certainly, we can all agree on that. But lets not argue against an issue that is more perception than reality. That is my two cents. Conflating the issue does not help correct, it only serves to ingratiate those that are critical. And that is the side of this that makes me cautious. I wonder how much of this was KH wanting to make the faith message more palatable to the critics, kind of like his changing the strength of his position on whether the nature of Jesus Christ became sin on the cross as our substitute, that core issue of whether Jesus died spiritually or not? I am cautious about taking a position in order to garner favor from the religious.

Peace...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,791
2,913
✟277,188.00
Faith
Word of Faith
This is good stuff Truthfrees, you should post here the rest that you pm'd me. It would fit nicely here.

Peace...
As per my forum post:

:wave:
I've studied the Introduction as well.

The last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are a great synopsis of:
1. What point KH is trying to make with his book
2. Who he's talking to
3. Why he's written the book.

I think those last 7 paragraphs might help clarify what he means in the other chapters, especially the "correction" chapters.

I believe KH has been greatly misunderstood on the 3 points I mentioned, and people have drawn wrong conclusions about he says and means.

The last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are:
1 paragraph BEFORE the heading Finding Balance Between Extremes and 6 paragraphs that follow that heading.



Here's my notes on the Introduction Chapter:
I feel the last 7 paragraphs of the Introduction are crucial to properly understanding 1. who KH is talking to, 2. why he's writing this book, 3. what he feels is the problem.

Paragraph 0. 1 paragraph before the heading Finding Balance Between Extremes.

"There is no Midas TOUCH or magical FORMULA for MATERIAL success."

People make formulas, or think some people are blessed and others aren't.

"There are biblical principles concerning prosperity and blessing that God honors ACCORDING TO HIS WORD."

People aren't following scripture, they're adding or subtracting from scripture. They're following their flesh and not the truth of scripture. They might have a love of money rather than love of God and of truth.

Paragraph 1. The 1st paragraph AFTER the heading Finding Balance Between Extremes.

"I have seen some FAITHFUL men of God stay the course and move ACCURATELY with the TRUTH of the WORD and the HOLY SPIRIT, resulting in GREAT BLESSING for a host of believers. Unfortunately, I have also seen many others become sidetracked by EXTREMISM, ultimately SHIPWRECKING THEIR MINISTRIES and hurting and disillusioning many people in the process."

KH describes 2 types of ministers. I don't believe KH was calling KC or his teachings extreme. I believe KH was addressing OTHERS who are twisting the teachings of KC and other FAITHFUL men of God.

These extremists are shipwrecking their ministries and harming people. We've seen those wounded people here on the forum.

Paragraph 3. "There are people who are preaching that GETTING RICH is the MAIN FOCUS of faith, that God's MAIN CONCERN is your MATERIAL well-being, and that MONEY is the MEASURE of TRUE SPIRITUALITY."

None of this is taught by KC or FAITHFUL wof preachers. KH is talking about twisted teachings of non-founders, possibly lone-ranger, independent teachers. He's certainly not talking against the sound teaching of KC and the FAITHFUL ministers we listen to.

These kind of twisted teachings sound similar to KC's teachings, but ARE REALLY about fleshly materialism, and have nothing to do with being blessed to be a blessing.

Paragraph 4. "In this time of AFFLUENCE and ABUNDANCE, there is increasing concern among RESPONSIBLE CHRISTIAN LEADERS over the alarming increase of CONFUSION, ERROR, EXTREMISM, regarding the PROSPERITY MESSAGE. I feel compelled to speak out to the church at large."

KH doesn't mean KC and other FAITHFUL ministers and their teaching. IT's the extreme teachers who twist sound teachings. KC helps those who struggle financially. The extremists have a whole different outlook. They're interested in GIMMICKS to draw in huge offerings for their ministry and care nothing for the people.

Paragraph 5. "There is no lasting JOY in THINGS money can buy and prosperity WITHOUT ETERNAL PURPOSE leads to disappointment and dissatisfaction."

Again this is NOT KC's teaching. The web is full of nonsense saying this book is about KC and his teachings. The extremists DO focus on earthly materialism, and have no real eternal purpose to their teaching. It's veiled selfishness, greed, lust.

Paragraph 6. "I want to share with you the truths I learned through CAREFUL STUDY and APPLICATION of GOD'S WORD and by diligently listening to the VOICE of the HOLY SPIRIT."

All these INTRODUCTORY points make it clear this book is not about KC.

KH, KC, CC, and FAITHFUL wof ministers live this same way: careful study and application of God's Word, and diligently listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit.

This book is about people who've twisted KC's teaching.

Once I understood this, I could see what KH was REALLY saying, and I agree.

He's speaking EXCLUSIVELY to EXTREMISM and UNSOUND teachers and their "love of money" teaching.

You're doing a great job of blessing the wof forum.

I'm glad you're here influencing us as the Lord leads you.

Please continue to teach here. :wave:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,791
2,913
✟277,188.00
Faith
Word of Faith
What Kenneth Hagin does in the third paragraph is essentially build a straw man. He says this, "...there are people preaching that getting rich is the main focus of faith, that God's main concern is your material well-being, and that money is the true measure of spirituality". I would like to know who these people are. I have listened to many of the most prominent 'prosperity preachers' in the WOF movement, and I have never heard any of these three statements, and I am relatively certain that if asked, none of them would agree with this characterization. That doesn't mean that there may not be some out there that I don't know of that preach these views, but if so, I don't know who they are, nor are they mainstream WOF. Though we don't know exactly who Kenneth Hagin had in mind (although I have some ideas on that score), I think it can be assumed with some degree of certainty that they were within the accepted circle of known faith ministers of the time, and not some out in the field (like Rev Ike) that were not a part of the faith movement at all. If they were outside of the faith movement all together, there would be no need for KH to 'correct' them, nor would they care what he had to say.

Now, I would be the first to admit, that there are some in the faith movement whose focus and actions were/are seemingly entirely about money, and one may easily come to the conclusion from their ACTIONS and FOCUS that they believed that getting rich is the main focus of faith, that God's main concern is your material well-being, and that money is the true measure of spirituality, but I can almost guarantee you that if you asked them, they would flat out deny that to be the case. In either case, KH doesn't say that some ministers 'give this impression'; rather, he says that "...there are people preaching..." this. If anyone disagrees with me on this, then I challenge you to find some quotes of WOF ministers teaching any of those three principles and post the reference and where we can find it. I don't believe you will be successful, because I have never myself personally heard such a thing.

And this is what I meant by a straw man. Why does KH state that he is addressing something when it isn't really happening? I personally am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and relegate this to simple hyperbole to get a point across, in which case it really isn't that big of a deal; but on the other hand, it is a big deal, because he is setting the stage here for an argument on an issue that doesn't really exist in the form that he is defining it. Are there extremes? Certainly, we can all agree on that point. Do they need to be addressed? Certainly, we can all agree on that. But lets not argue against an issue that is more perception than reality. That is my two cents. Conflating the issue does not help correct, it only serves to ingratiate those that are critical. And that is the side of this that makes me cautious. I wonder how much of this was KH wanting to make the faith message more palatable to the critics, kind of like his changing the strength of his position on whether the nature of Jesus Christ became sin on the cross as our substitute, that core issue of whether Jesus died spiritually or not? I am cautious about taking a position in order to garner favor from the religious.

Peace...
I agree with everything you're saying, except I'd ask you to consider KH's words closely.

KH didn't say WOF teachers taught this. :wave:

KH said he's talking to the body of Christ at large.

It's internet nonsense that says KH is talking to or about wof teachers.

I agree with you that I've never heard a wof teacher teach these things.

BUT, I've heard non-wof tv preachers teach similar to what KH is saying.

They're not wof, but people think anyone who teaches prosperity is wof.

So with this in mind, what KH says about preachers, would go a long way to clarify what wof really believe.

IOW, divide wof from non-wof.

This is why I agree with KH's statement.

I can't remember the name of some of the non-wof tv preachers who're gimmicky in their pressure for you to sow seed into their ministry.

They promise all kinds of prosperity for giving them money, and some go so far as to promise trouble for those who don't give these preachers big offerings.

It is alarming to see them preach.

When I hear them, I start praying immediately that the Lord deal with them and protect the hearts and ears of any who tune into their program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,791
2,913
✟277,188.00
Faith
Word of Faith
The secular news reported that Oral Roberts said he would die if he didn't get 8 million dollars.

But that's a fabricated story.

Any surprise coming from the secular media?

We have to be careful where we get our information from.

I had a bad attitude toward Roberts because of that news story.

I asked my Pastor about it a few years ago and he told me what Roberts really said.

I'll have to ask him again because I can't remember now.

Isn't it funny how the lies stick but the truth is hard to remember?

:wave:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

hhodgson

Semper-fi
Supporter
Sep 20, 2011
1,948
387
75
Delphos, Ohio
✟612,832.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Let's stay focused on the OP's good idea of doing a study of Kenneth E. Hagins book "The Midas Touch." It should be very informative since he is one of our Wof founders. Everybody in agreement?
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

now faith

Veteran
Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Let's stay focused on the OP's good idea of doing a study of Kenneth E. Hagins book "The Midas Touch." It should be very informative since he is one of our Wof founders. Everybody in agreement?

God Bless
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0