Did Jesus have a soul?

Smoky · Jan 22, 2015

We know from John 1 that jesus pre-existed his actual birth and left his position as the eternal word to come down and inhabit His earthly body. Therefore at one time His soul or spirit was separated from his body. Do you believe His body and soul both died on the cross or did His soul live on after His death? What do you make of this? :

1 Peter 3:18-20 (RSV)
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

Smoky said:
We know from John 1 that jesus pre-existed his actual birth and left his position as the eternal word to come down and inhabit His earthly body. Therefore at one time His soul or spirit was separated from his body. Do you believe His body and soul both died on the cross or did His soul live on after His death? What do you make of this? ...

Yes, YHVH Emmanuel existed before all [John 1:1-18, 8:58, etc], since He is the Almighty I AM - the Son, etc.

You have a misunderstanding of the word Biblical word "Soul" [Acts 2:31] and "Spirit" [Luke 23:46]. You also have a misunderstanding about the "Form of God" [Philippians 2:6].

Did 'Jesus' always have a human body? No, since it is written "a body hast thou prepared me" [Hebrews 10:5], speaking of the human nature, of the seed of Abraham, David, fallen Adam, see [Link]. Did He have a body not of humanity before he took upon himself [clothed himself] with human nature? Yes, the very "Form of God" [Philippians 2:6], for numerous examples exist in scripture which detail this, in coming down to speak with Abraham [Genesis 17-19], coming down upon Mt Sinai to speak with Moses [his feet, body hands, seen, etc; Exodus 24:9-12, etc], to speak with Joshua [Joshua 5], etc. There are bodies terrestrial and bodies celestial, for not all flesh is the same flesh [1 Corinthians 15].

Speaking of Philippians 2:

"Jesus Christ laid off His royal robe, His kingly crown, and clothed His divinity with humanity, in order to become a substitute and surety for humanity, that dying in humanity, He might by His death destroy him who had the power of death. He could not have done this as God, but by coming as man, Christ could die. By death He overcame death. The death of Christ bore to the death him who had the power of death, and opened the gates of the tomb for all who receive Him as their personal Saviour.Letter 97, 1898, p. 5. (To My Brethren in North Fitzroy, November 18, 1898.) -
Manuscript Releases Volume Ten [Nos. 771-850], p. 173.1 (1)

Jesus, in death, was in the Tomb, even as it is written, "where the LORD lay" [Matthew 28:6] and thus was to "remain in the tomb" [Job 21:32] until the resurrection, he becoming the "firstfruits of them that slept" [1 Corinthians 15:20].

From the Biblical perspective, Deity is immortal, and cannot die [1 Timothy 6:16], yet humanity [human nature] is mortal [Job 4:17]:

"... When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible ..."- Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty-one [Nos. 1501-1598], p. 418.5 (1)

Jesus Himself also stated with clarity:

John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:13 KJB - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The problem is, people spiritualize away Heaven and even God Himself into aetheral non-things, gaseous non-entities, vaporous nothings, etc.

There are vast unfallen worlds, with unfallen beings, ruled by the very real God who sits upon His very real and Tangible throne in the midst of the very real and tangible city, in the midst of the very real and tangible Paradise [Garden] of God.

Some people seek to minutely define the 'incarnation', which Scripture declares cannot be done, not even in eternity will the finite mind ever fully comprehend it:

1 Timothy 3:16 KJB - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

Your misunderstanding may also have something to do with the RSV translation.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Before we move into these texts [1 Peter 3:1-22], let us look even further back into the context to see what Peter believes:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Peter 1:3[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 1 Peter 1:4[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1 Peter 1:6[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 1:7[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What do we immediately notice that Peter believes?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] That we are [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]begotten again unto a lively [living] hope...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and what is this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]lively hope[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], not that we actually have the inheritance realized, but that we are actively and still hoping for it to be realized, and this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]lively hope[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], will be realized in the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]resurrection from the dead[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and not before, even as Paul says, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Henceforth [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][from this point forward in time] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]there is[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [currently] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]laid up[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [reserved, even as Peter says] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [the Day of the Lord][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]: and not to me only, but unto all them[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [which currently sleep in Jesus in the dust of the earth, or are then alive and changed instantly, from mortality to conditional immortality] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]also that love his appearing[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Advent, when the Lord blows the trumpet and calls the dead to life and immortal bloom [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]].[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [2 Timothy 4:8][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][2] Peter says that this lively hope that we have comes through, or is by ...the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. and therefore we do not inherently have an immortal anything, but it is only ...brought life and immortality to light... [2 Timothy 1:10] through Christ's resurrection ...from the dead. which is even preached in the gospel.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][3] Notice that it is an ...inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away..., but do we now possess it 'in hand'?, or rather as Peter says that it is a lively hope [for if we are still hoping, it is not yet present, but future], even ...reserved in heaven for you. What does it mean to be reserved? It means to be held in another's possession until such time as it is to be given unto us in actuality, but for the moment it is promised of God, and it is He [Jesus] which holds it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][4][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Peter clearly states that for the moment we are [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and therefore notice that it is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]through faith unto salvation[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and not merely salvation without condition [[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13; see also Mark 13:13[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]]. We all have the choice to continue or not continue to walk with Christ Jesus [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][John 6:66][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and that choice is never to be taken away, not even in all eternity [more on this later if necessary].[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][5][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Peter says that this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]salvation[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...ready to be revealed in the last time.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and is therefore not yet here, but future still, for we, even as he, await Christ Jesus coming in the clouds of glory with all His holy angels, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]revealed in the last time [revealed; see also Matthew 10:26; Luke12:2, ...in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Luke 17:30; ...the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire ... 1 Corinthians 3:13, even in that day when the man of sin is revealed [2 Thessalonians 2:3-8]; ...a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed. 1 Peter 5:1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], which is the Day of the Lord, the 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Advent.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]That word [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]revealed - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]apokalyptō[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] ἀποκαλύπτω [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]has many other complimentary partners in the Scripture which all speak of the same events:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]afterward they that are Christ's at his coming[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. (1 Corinthians 15:23).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The English word [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]coming[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] in the Greek is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]parousia παρουσία[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and means [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]presence, the advent, the coming, the arrival, the future visible return of JESUS from Heaven to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the Kingdom of GOD[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [Strong's Concordance] [See [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Matthew 24:37[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and compare to [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Luke 17:26,30[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]].[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The same word can be viewed in many other passages: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Matthew 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Corinthians 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6-7, 10:10; Philippians 1:26, 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1,8,9; James 5:7-8; 2 Peter 1:16, 3:4,12; 1 John 2:28][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There are also many other words that also describe Jesus' visible, physical, audible, tumultuous, glorious, triumphant and literal return at His appointed time:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to come and/or arrive erchomai ἔρχομαι [Matthew 24:30, 26:64; John 14:3; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Revelation. 1:7],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to appear visibly optanomai ὀπτάνομαι [Hebrews 9:28],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to return analyō ἀναλύω [Luke 12:36],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to reveal apokalypsis ἀποκάλυψις [2 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7; Luke 17:29-30],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to manifest epiphaneia ἐπιφάνεια [1 Timothy 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:8; Titus 2:13],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]make manifest phaneroō φανερόω [1 Peter 5:4],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]come hēkō ἥκω [Revelation 2:25],[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to return hypostrephō ὑποστρέφω [Luke 19:12][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]All Heaven will be poured out in the Triumphant Great Advent of the Lord, Saviour and God, Christ Jesus, and the Gates will be lifted up again:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And, behold, I come quickly; and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]my reward [is] with me[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], to give every man according as his work shall be. [Revelation 22:12][/FONT]

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][6][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Peter uses another related word [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]revealed -[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]apokalypsis [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]ἀποκάλυψις [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]here, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and we may look at both [vs 5 and vs 7] and see that they are speaking of the same events, the 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Advent which it is then that the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]glory[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [vs 7] is known, then we shall be changed and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...shine as the brightness of the firmament as the stars for ever and ever. [Daniel 12:3][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][7][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Peter continues in this same thought over and over again, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 1 Peter 1:13[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and so therefore notice that there is a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]hope[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] we must have for something yet future, to be continued with us, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]..to the end...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] for that [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]grace[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], which will be [future tense, not yet here], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...brought unto you at...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], when shall it be brought? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...at the revelation [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][same word in vs 5, revealed] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]of Jesus Christ.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], not before.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][8][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] When does Peter speak of the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]glory[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] that was given to the Son? It was after the resurrection, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. [1 Peter 1:21][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and therefore it will not be until our [the faithful's] respective resurrection that we too shall receive of this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]glory[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], then no longer having a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]lively hope[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] for it, but in reality then possessing it, having finally reached [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the end[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] by that continued and persevering [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]faith[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][9][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Peter is continually speaking of the time frame of this 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Advent, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...glorify God in the day of visitation. [1 Peter 2:12] and ...an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed [1 Peter 5:1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. [1 Peter 5:4][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT]

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Is this consistent with Peter that the dead are dead [asleep] until their respective resurrection, and are not ascended into Heaven? It sure is, even from the very moment of Pentecost, being anointed by the Holy Spirit:[/FONT]

What did Peter teach on this subject? Let us go to a powerful lesson in Acts 2:

The Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona, filled with the Holy Spirit, raises his voice and begins speaking, teaching and orating. He is not alone in this, for not only is this message signified and approved by the Holy Spirit Himself, he is also surrounded by the other 11 Apostles of Christ Jesus and the remaining Disciples that were with them. The Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona then before the crowd in Jerusalem, in a teaching and expounding manner, directly quotes from both the Prophets Joel and King David, as well as from the Psalms.

Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Acts 2:29

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Acts 2:34

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3:4

Good King David, a man after God's own heart, though he had his downfall, is Dead Buried not in Heaven and even moreso his Tomb was still with them all. So says the Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona himself by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures. Ought we then not to believe him? If not, how about the scriptures which agreed with him and others such as Paul and/or Jesus?

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:42

Shall we not want to continue stedfastly in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship on this subject? What begins to happen if we do not?

What does Luke [physician/historian] teach and record about the Apostle and Martyr Stephen?

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:60

What does Paul teach on David, and others who have died previously?

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Acts 13:36

[Paul Agrees with Peter in Acts 2, which agrees with the OT scripture]

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:6

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1 Thessalonians 4:13

What did John the Apostle teach by the Holy Spirit in Revelation?

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Moving onward, Let us see what Peter says after the verses [[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1 Peter 3:1-22] we are to consider and thus see what is surrounding them. He continues exhorting to live godly, keeping the Commandments of God through faith, believing His precious promises that we might be partakers of the divine nature, and if such faith is kept unto the end, we shall have an entrance ministered by Jesus and all the Holy angels come with Him to take us back, etc, for he knows that these will be his last words unto them:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 2 Peter 1:13[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 2 Peter 1:14[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 2 Peter 1:15[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] When shall we receive this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]entrance [2 Peter 1:11][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] into the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]? Even as Peter said earlier, it is when He shall be [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]revealed [1 Peter 1:5,7,13][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] from Heaven. As of this moment that is what we have this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]lively hope [1 Peter 1:3][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] of. For though our names are written in Heaven [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Luke 10:20[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]; which may, a this time, still be removed and blotted out[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], we desire to enter there. Peter says that it shall be [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...ministered unto [us]... [2 Peter 1:11][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and how so?, by Jesus Christ Himself coming with every single ministering angel [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7, etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] in Heaven to come and claim His own [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][John 14:2-3; Matthew 24:30, 25:31; Mark 8:38; Luke 9:26, 21:27; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16; etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], known as the Great Harvest of Wheat [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Revelation 14:15][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] which shall be reaped.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][2][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Peter declares that these shall be some of his very last words to them, as Jesus had revealed to him earlier [vs 14], that Peter was to die, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle... [2 Peter 1:14][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and thus speaks of his own [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]decease [2 Peter 1:15][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]greek [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]exodos[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]ἔξοδος, which means departing, and in context, departing from life to go [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]in[to] the grave [Job 14:13; Psalms 6:5, 31:17, 49:14, 88:5,11; Ecclesiastes 9:10; John 11:17; further see Genesis 42:38; 2 Samuel 3:32, 19:37; 1 Kings 2:6, 14:13; 2 Kings 22:20; Job 17:13, 21:13,32; Isaiah 38:10, 53:9; etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]return[ing] unto dust [Genesis 2:7, 3:19, 18:27; Job 4:19, 7:21, 10:9, 17:16, 20:11, 21:26, 34:15, 40:13; Psalms 22:15,29, 30:9, 103:14, 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:20, 12:7; Isaiah 2:10, 26:19; Daniel 12:2, etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. Peter understands that his earthly tabernacle, this mortal of his shall be [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]swallowed up of life [2 Corinthians 5:4][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] in the resurrection to come, wherein he shall have been given as a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]reward [Revelation 22:12][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], for having been a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]faithful and wise servant [Matthew 24:45][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], a new glorified tabernacle [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][2 Corinthians 5:2], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]but t[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]hat while he is returned unto dust, he is temporarily until such time, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]sleepeth/asleep [John 11:11; 2 Peter 3:4][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] in the first death without a tabernacle of earth or of heaven, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]naked [2 Corinthians 5:3][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] in death [not the 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] death].[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][3] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]We see that Peter strove with great love in his heart for them, with tender compassionate care and Godly fear, saying that he would [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things [2 Peter 1:12][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] by several instances of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...putting [them] in remembrance... [2 Peter 1:13][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and again telling them to [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...have these things always in remembrance. [2 Peter 1:15][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], even though they already [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]know [them] [2 Peter 1:12][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], but so that they would be[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] ...established in the present truth [2 Peter 1:12][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and not [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. [Ephesians 4:14][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], knowing that [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...it is the last time... [1 John 2:18]; and that ...evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [2 Timothy 3:13][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], because there were already as foretold by Jesus [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2 Peter 2:1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], even these reprobate, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. [2 Timothy 2:8][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. Immortal soul/spirit theology destroys the hope of the resurrection, and of what Christ Jesus did upon the Cross, for those which teach it, say that people enter into Heaven [or hell/purgatory for others] as soon as they die, without any need of a resurrection... for even when will the wicked be cast in to the fire, as soon as they die? No. Scripture says, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], which takes place after the Great White Throne Judgment and second Great resurrection [resurrection of damnation; [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished ... Revelation 20:5(a)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]], and so [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...there was found no place for them. [Revelation 20:11; Daniel 2:35][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], not in Heaven, nor on earth [for there will be no more death or grave, for the earth shall be made New].[/FONT]

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[4] For Peter even writes that even the wicked angels [living beings, like unto us but different, for all flesh in not the same flesh, one kind and another [more on this later if necessary]] are yet reserved unto their rewards/judgments, ...to be reserved unto judgment ... [2 Peter 2:4] and even the devils know this that their time of punishment is coming, yet future, ...art thou come hither to torment us before the time. [Matthew 8:29] therefore as Paul says, Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. [1 Corinthians 4:5], and while the rebellious angels yet live and are active, the wicked humanity which have died, slumber in the ground, for God knows how ...to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished. [2 Peter 2:9], for that day approaches and is soon is coming according to prophecy, in which they both [wicked angel and wicked mankind] will perish together, depraved Head and Root and diseased body and branches of that corrupt tree, For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. [Malachi 4:1], and in that day, ...to be taken and destroyed and shall utterly perish in their own corruption. [2 Peter 2:12] and And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness... [2 Peter 2:13], ...to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. [2 Peter 2:17], to perish [John 3:16; 2 Peter 3:9] and without life evermore and they will be made ...a terror, and thou [shalt be] no [more]: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD. [Ezekiel 26:21] and ...thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt be] any more. [Ezekiel 27:36] and ...shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more. [Ezekiel 28:19].

[5] Peter knows that even in the last days there will be scoffers [2 Peter 3:3], ...Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep... [2 Peter 3:4] and yet knowing that ...the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. [2 Peter 3:7], for in that day, the Day of the Lord [the 1,000 years, the millennium; the 7th Day with the Lord God, 2 Peter 3:8], But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [2 Peter 3:10] and [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, [2 Peter 3:11] and Looking for and hasting untothe coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? [2 Peter 3:12]

[6] Peter was looking forward to the New Heaven and the New Earth: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. [2 Peter 3:13], even so ...seeing that ye look for such things... [2 Peter 3:14], not looking to be 'unclothed' [death, found 'naked'], but rather clothed upon [2 Corinthians 5:2,4].

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Therefore, what do these texts of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1 Peter 3:1-22 [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]mean?

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Peter ends this section of his 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Epistle by saying, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Finally brethren,..."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] after speaking about those things in [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1 Peter 1 - 1 Peter 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and also about the inward man and not the outward vain adorning, but rather of the chaste and holy conduct of the Christian, especially that which is between man [husband] and wife [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1 Peter 3 1-7].

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Peter then goes into Christian love [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1 Peter 3:8-17].

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]He finally then sums this all up in Christ Jesus as being the perfect model and example of this love, and re-connects that with the earlier verses [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1 Peter 3:1-17][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] with the very example of the days of Noah and the Salvation and Judgment seen there. Peter seconds Jesus:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." [Matthew 24:37] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]see also Matthew 24:38; Luke 17:26,27[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] People in Noah's day rioted, and did whatever they pleased, and took whom they wanted, etc [ask about the context of sons of God and daughters of men and what was happening there]. Noah, who [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"was perfect in his generations" [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"walked with god" [Genesis 6:9;p][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], preached unto them about [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"righteousness" [2 Peter 2:5][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], but most of the rest of the world mocked and railed at him, like as others also unto the other prophets [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][2 Chronicles 36:16; Job 12:4; Mark 12, etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. So Noah[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "suffer[ed] for righteousness sake"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], but was unafraid of their [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"terror"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and of their [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"speak[ing] evil"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] of him as an [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"evil doer",[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] but rather he[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "found grace in the eyes of the Lord" [Genesis 6:8;p][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"sanctif[ied] the Lord God [in his] heart"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and so [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"suffer[ed] for well doing" [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]while believing God about the coming Judgment of the Flood [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Genesis 6:17][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] which would take everyone away in destruction and thus it was[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "accounted unto him for righteousnesss"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] for so acting upon that Faith [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][James 2].

So then what do the remaining verses of 1 Peter 3:18-22 actually mean?

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The passage is not saying that Christ Jesus, while deceased and in the tomb [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][where "the LORD lay" [Matthew 28:6]][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], then incorporeally went and preached a sermon to [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"spirits"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [the common worldly defined form of an incorporeal immortal being, ie. 'ghosts of the deceased', etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].

Jesus was dead, having suffered the Death [the wages for sin], which was ours for us all [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][though we too, our "old man" of "sin" [Romans 6:6;p] must die, and be "crucified with CHRIST" [Galatians 2:20;p] and be "born again" [John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23]], though His [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Humanity died: divinity did not die"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] for GOD, Divinity, is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"immortal" [1 Timothy 1:17][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]

...

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So, the Holy Spirit was already working in the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Days of Noah"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] upon the hearts and minds of men, as He has throughout the scriptures[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [Genesis 1:2; Numbers 11:29; Job 26:13; Isaiah 48:16; Zechariah 7:12; 1 Corinthians 2:10; Ephesians 3:16; 1 John 4:13; etc]:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." [Genesis 6:3][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So now, please notice what Peter is actually recounting of as it had happened in the "days of Noah": [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" [1 Peter 3:18][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Put to death in the flesh"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"quickend" [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["made alive, to produce alive...to cause to live, make alive, give life...to restore life...springing up..."; Greek "zōopoieō" "ζῳοποιέω"; Strong's Concordance, Thayer's Lexicon, Vines Expository, ; "in other words, to make living that which was before dead/without life"][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] by the Holy Spirit again ["not left in hell [grave]"] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]into Immortal and Uncorruptible Flesh [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][for His flesh never having seen corruption; Exodus 16:5,22-36; Psalms 16:10, 49:9; Acts 2:27,32, 13:35,37].

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]He [Jesus] was [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"quickened [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]by[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] the Spirit" [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][in this text, being Raised [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]by[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] the Holy Spirit; Romans 8:11] and was forever raised as an immortal human man with [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Flesh and Bones" [Luke 24:39] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]so that the disciples could [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"handle"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Him and that He could [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"eat"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Jesus, who spake of the raising of the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Temple of his Body" [John 2:21; Revelation 21:22][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], was Raised Bodily [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][John 2:19,21, 20:12; Luke 24:3,6,39,43, etc] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]unto Immortality as the type of the Uncorrupted Manna in the Wilderness foretold [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Exodus 16:5,22-25][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and was not floating around somewhere in some "immortalized incorporeal form of man-shade" preaching to other "deceased conscious incorporeals". ...
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" [1 Peter 3:19][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] What is the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"by which"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] this event [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["went and preached"] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]was being done?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"by the Spirit" [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][being the Holy Spirit], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][vs 18].

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Who then is the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"He"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] that was doing this [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["went and preached"][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] by means of the Holy Spirit?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It is Jesus [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["Christ"], [vs 18],[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] for Jesus was preaching through the Holy Spirit whom He had sent unto Noah to warn the world of the impending Judgment of God and for repentance. Remember [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [Genesis 6:3][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]? To whom was Noah preaching to in those days then by the Holy Spirit whom Jesus had sent? Deceased 'ghosts' or people who were very much alive and living in sin and rebellion towards God?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The text says that the Holy Spirit strove with [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"man"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] who is [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"flesh"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] which is animated unto life by the spirit of God, having been breathed into him:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "...My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh..." [Genesis 6:3;p][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]

The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Peter was using a comparison, of then [Noah's Day] and now [his [Peter's] day] and also the end of time] and was revealing that Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit in the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"days of Noah"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [not in the days of Jesus' death] was preaching the Gospel of Salvation [[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Genesis 3:15[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], etc by Noah, the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"preacher of righteousness"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]] to the living humans [[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"man"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]] that were then [[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"in the days of Noah"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"disobediant"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] to God.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts of Sin, Judgment and Righteousness [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][John 16:8][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], which is why even King David prayed after he had sinned and was [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"disobedient" ["Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." [Psalms 51:11]].

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Who then are these [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"spirits in prison" [vs 19] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]that were being [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"preached"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] unto?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]They were the living human beings [souls, living beings as defined by [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Genesis 2:7[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and throughout] who were in the bonds of iniquity, slaves of sin, bondage of disobedience and bound to Sin, Satan and Self [selfishness and also self-works to earn salvation] as the Bible so defines:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]brought thee out[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] of the land of Egypt, out [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]of the house of bondage[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [Exodus 20:2], see also [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Deuteronomy 5:6. 6:12, 8:14, 13:10; Judges 6:8; Joshua 24:17[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]brought you out of[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the house of bondage[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." [Deuteronomy 13:5] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][notice also that last part of the text][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "O LORD, truly I [am] thy servant; I [am] thy servant, [and] the son of thine handmaid: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]thou hast loosed my bonds[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [Psalms 116:16][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "Bring [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]my soul out of prison[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]..." [Psalms 142:7][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "To open the blind eyes, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to bring out the prisoners from the prison, [and] them that sit in darkness out of the prison house[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [Isaiah 42:7][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to proclaim liberty to the captives[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;" [Isaiah 61:1][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to preach deliverance to the captives[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," [Luke 4:18][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]whom Satan hath bound[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif],... be [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]loosed from this bond[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...?" [Luke 13:16][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]No servant can serve two masters[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Ye cannot serve God and[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] mammon." [Luke 16:13] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [John 8:34] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][...is the slave of sin][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the bond of iniquity[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [Acts 8:23][/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "For ye have not received [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the spirit of bondage again to fear[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." [Romans 8:15] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "For [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]ye were sometimes darkness[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:" [Ephesians 5:8] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "And [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [Hebrews 2:15] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "While [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [2 Peter 2:19][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Surely, those that Jesus Himself himself preached to in His 3 1/2 year Ministry were not "deceased or departed, nor some immortal incorporeal", but were very much physically alive [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["mortal man" [Job 4:17]; "Mortal Flesh" [2 Corinthians 4:11]][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] and held in the bondage to sin satan and self. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Even as Paul hath said:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]; whether of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]sin unto death[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], or of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]obedience unto righteousness[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]?" [Romans 6:16][/FONT]

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The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Also speaking of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"liberty"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] from [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"iniquity"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [lawlessness] the scriptures continue by saying:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "And [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I will walk at liberty[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]: for [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I seek thy precepts[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [Psalms 119:45] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] " [John 8:33] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [John 8:34] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "And [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the servant abideth not in the house for ever[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]: [but] the Son abideth ever." [John 8:35] [Paul uses this analogy in Galatians; those who are in bondage are sinners, refusing to submit to God and His righteousness][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "If [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [John 8:38] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "To open their eyes, [and] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." [Acts 26:18] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "Because the creature itself also shall be [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]delivered from the bondage of corruption[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] into the glorious liberty of the children of God." [Romans 8:21] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [2 Corinthians 3:17] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "For, brethren, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], but by love serve one another." [Galatians 5:13] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "But whoso [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [James 1:25] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "...[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]judged by the law of liberty[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [James 2:12] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "As free, and [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [1 Peter 2:16] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "While [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]." [2 Peter 2:19][/FONT]

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The Fundamentalist · Jan 23, 2015

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Looking further at the context and continuing onward[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." [1 Peter 3:20][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Who are the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"which"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]They are the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"spirits in prison"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][vs 19][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], which by the text themselves declare are living people in the bonds of sin and disobedience.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]When was this preaching [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["preached"] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to these [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"spirits in prison"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] done according to the context?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It was actually done to those who were [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"...disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the Ark was a prepraring..." [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][and even before through Enoch, and Methuselah [whose name means 'when he dies it will be sent'; 'flood'] as Jude gives]. This was done many years before Christ Jesus was ever incarnated/born as a man, and therefore long before His crucifixion.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Thus the Gospel was also Preached [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"in the days of Noah" [for 120 years, Genesis 6:3][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. The [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"disobedient"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] were the living disobedient and transgressing human beings who did not board the Ark, disbelieved the message of warning from God, but rather who continued to rebel and ignore the warnings that God [Jesus through the Holy Spirit] had given through Noah [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["preacher of Righteousness"][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It was not preached to angels, nor devils, nor immortal incorporeal forms, but rather it was preached to [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"man" [Genesis 6:3,5-7][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], who was living[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] "flesh" [Genesis 6:12-13,17][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [as we are living flesh], See also [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Job 22:15-16].

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Peter is likening that preachment done then [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["the like figure"][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], to the preachment done now [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1 Peter 3:21][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and their [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"then" [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]baptism [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]["wherein 8 souls were saved by water"] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]in [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"the days of Noah"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and he [Peter] is comparing it to the Baptism now offered in Christ Jesus.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Holy Spirit worked to convict of Sin then [through the preaching and lives of Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah], as He does now [through Christians], but only 8 humans [living [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"souls"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]] were saved then, as no one else chose to repent, believe and obey and to get into the Ark [the only means of salvation] except Noah and his Family.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So Likewise as it was in the days of Noe and in the days of Peter, the Gospel was preached to them who eventually died, hopefully in the faith that they might live again in the resurrection of the just, when his [Jesus'] glory shall be revealed, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. [1 Peter 4:6], But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. [1 Peter 4:13][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] but if not in that resurrection of the faithful, then in the resurrection of the unfaithful, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And if the righteous scarcely be saved, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]? [1 Peter 4:18][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], so too today He is convicting the whole world of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Sin, Judgment and Righteousness" [John 16:8] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]through the preaching of the Three Angels Messages and the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Everlasting Gospel"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] found in [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Revelation 14:6-12[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]. [As Noah was a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"preacher of Righteousness" [2 Peter 2:5][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] See also [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Psalms 119:172][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], so now there is a remnant group of God's people [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Revelation 14:12[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] proclaiming it over the whole world [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Revelation 14:6][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...]

Christ Jesus says as it was [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"in the days of Noe"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Luke 17:26, see also Matthew 24:37-39][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], so it will be... [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Another Message goes forth unto the whole world of the judgment, the Loud Cry of the Three Angels Messages is swelling and going forth even in these Last days [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Revelation 14:6-12; 18:1-24][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]... a message for all, get into the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Ark" [Revelation 11:19][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif], and to be [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]sealed [Isaiah 8:16; Ezekiel 9:4,6,11; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13, 4:30; Revelation 7:3,4,5,6,7,8, 14:1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] in before the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"door" [Luke 13:25; Daniel 12:1][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] of Mercy and Probation closes forever, and the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"rain"[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] of destruction comes [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][Psalms 11:6; Isaiah 28:17, etc][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...[/FONT]

Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver [but] their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 14:14

Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, [were] in it, [as] I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall [but] deliver their own souls by their righteousness. Ezekiel 14:20

Therefore, let all Repent [Acts 4:24, 14:15]. Turn unto the Creator/Redeemer Jesus Christ, and worship Him who made the Heavens, the earth and the sea and all that in them is, for he is the Lord of the Holy 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God, turn back unto the Holy Commandment delivered unto you [2 Peter 2:21], even as it is written, Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Revelation 14:6-7, etc.

Smoky · Jan 23, 2015

You have a misunderstanding of the word Biblical word "Soul" [Acts 2:31] and "Spirit" [Luke 23:46]. You also have a misunderstanding about the "Form of God" [Philippians 2:6].

I just ment that part of Jesus that exixted outside His body, whether the proper name is "soul" or "spirit" or whatever. Peter said He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit in which He preached to spirits. I know the original words meen breath or life priinciple.

Smoky · Jan 23, 2015

[QUOTEHe could not have done this as God, but by coming as man, Christ could die.][/QUOTE]
Do you mean by this that Jesus was not God when he came as a human being?

OldStudent · Jan 26, 2015

You raise an interesting question.

I would suggest looking again at the nature of life. Genesis 2:7 records, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Note that the sculpture God formed did not receive a soul. It did not contain a soul. When the sculpture received breath, the quality of life, that sculpture became a living soul. The soul is the essence of a persons thought life. Thought is the function of the brain as pumping is the function of heart.

There are things about Jesus that are hard to get our heads around. Unlike us, He did pre-exist. Somehow He ceased to exist for a moment as He was reduced to the half-set of chromosomes to fit with Marys half-set at the moment He became human. At which He also became a human soul yet also retained His divinity. Zowie. How does that all work!?

For us to have pre-existed before our conception sounds to me more like an attempt of Satan to elevate us to a level of Godhood - pre-exist as God has. The idea of an eternal aspect of human nature has it root in his deception (thou shalt not surely die) first expressed in Genesis 3.

The only thing about us that might be considered eternal is Gods memory of us. When we die we cease to exist except in His memory. Given who He is and His power, though we be dead, when He calls our name there we are. From His memory He can call us into existence as He did the rest of the world. Recall the resurrection of Lazarus.

Did Jesus have a soul?

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