Christians are Gods chosen people

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kristina411

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The old covenant did disappear and has vanished away. The new or everlasting covenant is still in effect. In this covenant Jesus is our great high priest and he came from Judah not Levi showing what covenant is truly binding. Replacement theology was taught by Christ so it is correct. He said behold your house is left unto you desolate...the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Sounds like a replacement to me!

Yup^^^^ I didn't know this was widely debated and just thought it was common knowledge. Guess I have a lot of learning to do on the hot topics of this forum but I do agree with replacement theology.

I'm learning so much from this site :)
 
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SistrNChrist

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How do you reconcile the pomegranates and cherubim the angel instructed to be carved for the temple?

I understand "carved image" to mean something intended to be worshiped, an idol.

Exodus 28:33
You shall make on its hem pomegranates of blue and purple and scarlet material, all around on its hem, and bells of gold between them all around.

1 Kings 7:18
He made the pillars, and two rows around on the one network to cover the capitals which were on the top of the pomegranates...four hundred pomegranates...On the top of the pillars was lily design.

Under its brim gourds went around encircling it ten to a cubit, completely surrounding the sea; the gourds were in two rows, cast with the rest. It stood on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east; and the sea was set on top of them, and all their rear parts turned inward. It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, as a lily blossom; it could hold two thousand baths.

2 Chronicles 3
He overlaid the main room with cypress wood and overlaid it with fine gold, and ornamented it with palm trees and chains.


He made two sculptured cherubim in the room of the holy of holies and overlaid them with gold. The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits, and they stood on their feet facing the main room.

He made chains in the inner sanctuary and placed them on the tops of the pillars; and he made one hundred pomegranates and placed them on the chains.



I think the artwork was about what people intended to do with it.

I believe the same as you do about the images. I see nothing wrong with wearing a cross or having a picture of Jesus in your house if it's just a simple reminder of the sacrifice He made on the cross. However, I grew up Catholic and so I would always see images of saints and people lighting candles and building altars to them. Once I finally entered into a relationship with Jesus, one of the first things that came into my mind was that those things were a form of idol worship, since you are no longer praying to Jesus, but to other human beings.



acttr
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Brandonspapa

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Replacement Theology is the false teaching that after Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God transferred to the Church all the unfilled promises He had made to Israel. Therefore the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plans for the future. 1 Peter 2:9 says, “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.”
Notice this verse doesn’t disqualify Israel from anything. It doesn’t say the Church has become the chosen people, as if we’ve been chosen in place of Israel, just that we’re a chosen people.
In addition, one of the problems of trying to build doctrine on one or two verses is that if you get it wrong you have to either ignore or re-interpret lots of other ones to maintain your position. This is true of replacement theology, no matter which verses you try to hang your hat on. Through out the Old and New testaments prophecies of the reappearance of Israel in the End Times are so numerous as to be undeniable.
For example, in Luke 21:24 Jesus said Jerusalem would be trampled on by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. The word “until” means there will be an end to Gentile dominion but Jerusalem will remain.
Romans 11:25-29 is another clear example showing that after the church has been taken, Israel will be saved. There are dozens of others in Deuteronomy, the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah, etc. In summary it’s impossible to hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible and also subscribe to replacement theology.
Advocates of Replacement Theology have departed from a literal interpretation of Scripture, especially where the Old Testament is concerned, and in the New Testament they often re-interpret passages about Israel, saying they’re really written to the Church. Therefore, offering a satisfactory rebuttal is difficult. But there are a number of passages that clearly deny this teaching, and if you take God at His Word, you’ll reject Replacement Theology. Jeremiah 31:35-37 is representative.
This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD Almighty is his name: “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the LORD, “will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.” This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the LORD.
And in the New Testament, there’s Romans 11:25-27.
“I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
This sounds pretty unconditional to me. There are literally scores of other similar promises.
As far as prophecies that cannot be fulfilled, this idea goes against the very heart of God’s most powerful claim to authority. The way He validates Himself as being worthy of our obedience to Him is by His faithfulness in keeping His promises to us. You’ve staked your eternal destiny on this. Listen to Isaiah 46:8-10.
“Remember this, fix it in mind, take it to heart, you rebels. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.”
Advocates of Replacement Theology are asking us to believe that God didn’t know that Israel would disobey Him and therefore had to come up with a plan B when they did. They say that Israel’s unfaithfulness to Him justifies His unfaithfulness to them. If so, what’s to prevent Him from changing His mind about us? The Church has certainly been unfaithful. Like I said, if you take God at His Word, you’ll reject Replacement Theology. The idea that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan is nothing more than anti-semitism disguised as religion and cannot be justified unless one departs from a literal understanding of God’s word. Sadly, many major denominations have done so. The rapture of the Church will expose this heresy as God turns his attention back to Israel for the remaining seven years of His covenant promise to them before the 2nd Coming.
 
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BryanW92

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The rapture of the Church will expose this heresy as God turns his attention back to Israel for the remaining seven years of His covenant promise to them before the 2nd Coming.

I don't believe in replacement theory because we are grafted on to Israel, but you should have stopped one sentence earlier because you almost prove that there is some merit to RT by this sentence.

You are, in effect, saying that God's chosen people in the present age are the Christians since he will Rapture them away and then return to Israel.
 
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Brandonspapa

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Not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is GOD is taking a people unto Himself (Born Again Christians) which is a specific number that only HE knows, and when that number is reached HE will Rapture the Church and then allow the final 7 years of Daniel's 70th week to take place. GOD has partially hardened the heart of Israel while HE does this. When Israel rejected the Messiah, HE scattered them throughout the nations until HE calls them all back to Israel just before the Tribulation period. This started in 1948 when the nation of Israel was reborn. If the Jews had allowed Christ to die on the Cross and accepted Him as their Messiah, then the final 7 years would have immediately begun. Then Israel, as was GOD's original intent, would have evangelized the nations. You need to understand the difference between "chosen" and "taken." Israel has always been, since Abram, GOD's chosen. And they always will be. The Church, which is the result of Israel's rejection of their Messiah, is now being taken out of the world into a new race, neither Jew nor Gentile. I seem to be wasting my time trying to educate some people on the difference, and since the majority or people on this thread believe in the false doctrine of Replacement Theology, I'll leave you to it. At least I have put the correct information out there for people to read and discern for themselves and see the lie that is being presented as truth by some of you.
 
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fozzy

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Dispensational proponents will loudly proclaim that the bible can only be interpreted literally and there is always a separation between the church or body of believers and Israel. I do agree that there has been much unbiblical doctrine that has come about by the over-spiritualizing of scripture and Christians who refuse to understand what side of the bible they belong on. The old testament was for ethnic Israel not Christians and the new testament is primarily for Christians. But what they fail to acknowledge is that there are spiritual concepts in the bible most notably the idea of a 'spiritual Israel'. Paul brought out the concept of spiritual Israel in almost every epistle. He used phrases like 'he is not a Jew which is one outwardly or in the flesh but he is a Jew who is one inwardly with a circumcision of the heart' or 'there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus' or 'For he is our peace who has made both one and broken down the wall of partition between us (Jew and Gentile). Spiritual Israel is in the bible and dispensationalists will never admit this. I admit there is an ethnic body but there is also a spiritual body comprised of Jewish and Gentile believers who are together not separated.

Every concept in the old testament has a spiritual counterpart in the new testament. In the old there was an earthly temple while in the new there is a heavenly temple. There was the Jewish high priest where as now there is Christ who is our great high priest. The animal sacrificial system pointed forward to the one true sacrifice of Christ for the sins of the world on the cross. And the law that was written in stone prefigured the time when God's law of love would be written in the fleshy tables of the heart. That leaves us with ethnic Israel who were the chosen people of God for their time which pointed forward to a 'spiritual Israel' who are comprised of all people with circumcised hearts. Circumcision was the outward sign of being part of the chosen people or Israel. And the bible is very clear that the sign was meaningless without the real thing of having a circumcised heart or being born again. Anyone who is born again is part of spiritual Israel. 'And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:' Col. 2:10,11
 
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kristina411

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. The old testament was for ethnic Israel not Christians and the new testament is primarily for Christians. [/I]

Just curious how you have come to this conclusion when Jesus taught the Old Testament and used many scriptures from it to tell people how to live, and to reference prophecy that was being fulfilled? Just wondering ��
 
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fozzy

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Just curious how you have come to this conclusion when Jesus taught the Old Testament and used many scriptures from it to tell people how to live, and to reference prophecy that was being fulfilled? Just wondering ��

The old testament still has value as a historical source where we can see how God dealt with ancient peoples but it was never intended for Christians who live under a different covenant. So many Christians today cite old testament passages as proof for what they believe never realizing that those passages were not for them they were for the Jewish people. Keeping the law is a prime example of this.
 
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Steeno7

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1 Peter 2:9-10

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."


Colossians 3:11-12

"Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience."
 
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kristina411

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The old testament still has value as a historical source where we can see how God dealt with ancient peoples but it was never intended for Christians who live under a different covenant. So many Christians today cite old testament passages as proof for what they believe never realizing that those passages were not for them they were for the Jewish people. Keeping the law is a prime example of this.

Oh, ok I see what you're saying. I do think its important to keep the old and new law but I see where you are coming from too.
 
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JLR1300

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Oh, ok I see what you're saying. I do think its important to keep the old and new law but I see where you are coming from too.

There are three types of Old Testament law
1. Civil law. (law for governing the nation of Israel) Like you shall not work on the Sabbath and if you are caught you must be stoned.
2. Ceremonial law. Like if you sin you must bring an animal to sacrifice.
3. Moral law. Like thou shalt not steal.

Americans cannot be governed by Israel's Civil law. We would have to stone homosexuals and adulterers etc. Since the Roman Government had control of Israel in Jesus' day, even He did not insist on stoning the woman taken in adultery.

The ceremonial law is passed away by fulfillment. Jesus is our sacrifice so we don't need an animal sacrifice. etc.

The moral law is the ten commandments. Only 9 of them are restated in the New Testament after Jesus rose again and the Church was started at Pentecost. Remember the sabbath to keep it holy isn't. Of course the moral law was never used for justification so we still don't use it for that. (Abraham was justified hundreds of years before the moral law was given by Moses) However, the moral law is a guide for letting us know what kind of behavior is pleasing to God for the Christian and what kind of behavior will get us disciplined and chastened. It is still true that Christians shouldn't kill or steal or commit adultery etc.

(By the way Kristina I added a further explanation about the goal of faith being works on the other thread... thanks)
 
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