How can illegal immigration in the US be stopped?

That was great. But is so close to the truth

poolerboy0077 said:

Yeah but your missing a very important and crucial distinction. The European settlers had flags. Did the natives have flags? No? Sorry, legality only begins when we stick a flag in another people's land from there onward.

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When I first read this, it reminded me of a meme that says "Let's celebrate Columbus day by walking in someone's house and telling them we live there now."

It is similar with so many treaties!
There is some truth in the saying that treaties are a political tool to delay abusing a group until there is enough power to do so conveniently.

It is sad. The good is that some governments apologize and seek healing.

How can illegal immigration be stopped?

By decreasing the disparity in opportunities.
Create trading arrangements that are genuinely fair, not massively more favourable to the rich and powerful countries.
Take every opportunity to build up security and economic security in the countries of origin.


While every global interaction is about servicing the best interests of the rich, powerful countries over the poor and powerless of course there will be some migration pressures.

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David Brider said:

Personally, I'd go with changing the law so that it's no longer illegal.

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... and this.

Autumnleaf said:

How can illegal immigration into the US be stopped?

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It cannot.

You cannot ever completely stop illegal immigration anymore than you can stop all crime. And attempts to actually stop all illegal immigration would be so horrendously totalitarian in nature as to miss the whole point in the first place.

All you can do is reduce illegal immigration by means that are not more of a problem than the one they seek to address.

So make State Benefits only available to actual citizens.
Make it illegal to hire illegal immigrants.
And make ALL healthcare illegal to those who not citizens or who are not visitors with private health insurance (or the means to pay by themselves without needing insurance).
And have armed border guards with permission to shoot on sight any who try to cross the border illegally.

Anything more than that (which is harsh enough!) and you are looking at Big Brother that is worse than the problem you are trying to stop.

Inkfingers said:

It cannot.

You cannot ever completely stop illegal immigration anymore than you can stop all crime. And attempts to actually stop all illegal immigration would be so horrendously totalitarian in nature as to miss the whole point in the first place.

All you can do is reduce illegal immigration by means that are not more of a problem than the one they seek to address.

So make State Benefits only available to actual citizens.
Make it illegal to hire illegal immigrants.
And make ALL healthcare illegal to those who not citizens or who are not visitors with private health insurance (or the means to pay by themselves without needing insurance).
And have armed border guards with permission to shoot on sight any who try to cross the border illegally.

Anything more than that (which is harsh enough!) and you are looking at Big Brother that is worse than the problem you are trying to stop.

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I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you ... shot me?

You're upset about the Pope threatening to thump people when he didn't.
But you want people crossing a border to be shot on sight?

ebia said:

I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you ... shot me?

You're upset about the Pope threatening to thump people when he didn't.
But you want people crossing a border to be shot on sight?

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Turning the other cheek is a response to insult (a slap on the cheek) not assault (and attempt to rob or cause harm to). Illegal immigration is attempted burglary and theft.

Inkfingers said:

Turning the other cheek is a response to insult (a slap on the cheek) not assault (and attempt to rob or cause harm to). Illegal immigration is attempted burglary and theft.

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No it's not, but even if it were:

If someone slaps you on the cheek, offer the other one as well. If someone takes your coat, don’t withhold your shirt either. Give to everyone who asks and don’t demand your things back from those who take them. Treat people in the same way that you want them to treat you.

Definitely doesn't say to shoot them.

Taking the coat refers to someone sueing you in court, not a mugger. The point is to give them your shirt as well and shame them for their actions IN COURT.

Someone who enters a country illegally is breaking into someone's homeland. It is comparable to burglary.

Inkfingers said:

Taking the coat refers to someone sueing you in court, not a mugger. The point is to give them your shirt as well and shame them for their actions IN COURT.

Someone who enters a country illegally is breaking into someone's homeland. It is comparable to burglary.

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Your selectivity is noted.

And no - at most it would be comparable to trespass.

ebia said:

Your selectivity is noted.

And no - at most it would be comparable to trespass.

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BURGLARY is not TRESPASS. Way to illustrate my point.
BUGLARY is entering with the intention of stealing.
TRESPASS is simply being where you should not be.

Read what people put, rather than your own version.

But this will fall on deaf ears to, so I will leave it at that; further conversation with you is utterly pointless (although doubtless you will try to score points or provoke me into such in some way ).

Inkfingers said:

BURGLARY is not TRESPASS. Way to illustrate my point.
BUGLARY is entering with the intention of stealing.
TRESPASS is simply being where you should not be.

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And crossing a boundary is simply trespass.
You want to equate it to burglary, but it's not equivalent.

Make all immigration legal. Problem solved.

Inkfingers said:

Illegal immigration is attempted burglary and theft.

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As American history will so blatantly show, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Yes, 200 years ago the American Government took the land. Yes, for the last 300 years the "white men" have used and abused Native Americans. And the Tribes have used and abused it's own people ever since. Being bitter over it is about as useful as blacks being bitter over slavery that ended over 100 years ago and blatant racial discrimination ended over 50 years ago. We need to move on. No offense!

Believe it or not, no offense was taken. In fact, I'm quite accustomed to that kind of nonchalant and dismissive attitude you are displaying. If I was guessing a wager, I would say that you are not Native American, meaning you are probably Caucasian, thus explaining your contemptuous attitude toward the countless atrocities and attempted genocide of an entire race of people, which were my ancestors. With all due respect, you're not the first non-native person to say that to me and I'm sure you won't be the last. So, you'll forgive me if I choose to ignore your disdainful attitude toward my ancestors and the genocide they suffered.

So, your racial profiling now? I didn't do any of those things. As a matter of fact, the different tribes committed countless atrocities and attempted genocide of entire tribes of Native American before the "white man" ever arrived on the Continent. I'm really just tired of everyone whining about stuff that happened in another world, in another time instead of moving on and trying to improve the world as we know it today. By the way, who sees all those millions of dollars that the Tribes receive tax free from the casinos that they run?

I was just voicing my personal experience as a Native American. I'm not going to argue with you, because it would be pointless for me to do so. As it is, I know the history of this country from the European perspective and from the Native American perspective. You are definitely entitled to your own point of view and opinion, as I am. However, I make no apologies for speaking out against what happened to NDNs and other minorities in this tyrannical country that is supposedly free and brave. I will also continue to speak out against the discrimination and social injustices against my people and other minorities, such as Mexican immigrants. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but I really don't care. I have been an advocate and politically active on this issue for years and I'm not going to be changing anytime soon. And for the record, I do work to make the world a better place for my people and for other minorities. One more thing, that whole slam about NDN casinos doesn't effect me in the least. I don't care for the casinos, never have, never will, but I'm not going to discuss this subject any further.

poolerboy0077 said:

I don't even know why I bother actually addressing people substantively.

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Me either but props for trying. This thread is oddly funny and sad at the same time.