Isaiah 8:13-20, & Isaiah 56:1-8, Who is..., what is...?

The Fundamentalist · Jan 18, 2015

Turn to Isaiah 56, and read vs 1 and then vs 8.

Q. Who is it speaking of?

Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Isaiah 56:3 KJB - Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I [am] a dry tree.

Isaiah 56:4 KJB - For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:5 KJB - Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 KJB - Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:8 specifically referenced anywhere in the New Testament, and if so, what Scripture does this point to prophetically? Cite that Verse.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:1-8 a contextual whole, in other words all speaking about the same things together?

Q. What then is the "my covenant" spoken of in Isaiah 56:1-8?

Q. Who then is to partake of the "my covenant" according to Isaiah 56:1-8?

Q. Now turn to Isaiah 8:14,15, and tell me who it is speaking of according to the New Testament? Cite those verses which specifically reference this:

Isaiah 8:14 KJB - And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 8:15 KJB - And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Now please continue reading Isaiah 8:16-20.

Q. Who then are the "my disciples" spoken of here in the context of Isaiah 8:14,15?
Isaiah 8:16 KJB - Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:17 KJB - And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Isaiah 8:18 KJB - Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Q. Who then is "Israel", and who are His "Children" that were "given" Him, and from whom were they "given" from, and how do we know? Cite those verses.

Q. Who is the "they" in Isaiah 8:20?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 18, 2015

The Fundamentalist said:
Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Click to expand...

Q. Who is the "they" in Isaiah 8:20?

I would venture to guess it is the corrupt Pharisees, Sadducees and Chief Priests that Jesus spoke against in the NT...IMHO

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS THE CORRUPT JEWISH TEMPLE RULERS

Matthew 3:7
Being aware yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon the baptism of him he said to them "produce of vipers! who shows to ye to be fleeing from the being about Wrath!"

Matt 23:33
"Serpents! produce of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>"

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.

.

The Fundamentalist · Jan 18, 2015

The Fundamentalist said:
Turn to Isaiah 56, and read vs 1 and then vs 8.

Q. Who is it speaking of?

Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Isaiah 56:3 KJB - Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I [am] a dry tree.

Isaiah 56:4 KJB - For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:5 KJB - Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 KJB - Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:8 specifically referenced anywhere in the New Testament, and if so, what Scripture does this point to prophetically? Cite that Verse.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:1-8 a contextual whole, in other words all speaking about the same things together?

Q. What then is the "my covenant" spoken of in Isaiah 56:1-8?

Q. Who then is to partake of the "my covenant" according to Isaiah 56:1-8?

Q. Now turn to Isaiah 8:14,15, and tell me who it is speaking of according to the New Testament? Cite those verses which specifically reference this:

Isaiah 8:14 KJB - And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 8:15 KJB - And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Now please continue reading Isaiah 8:16-20.

Q. Who then are the "my disciples" spoken of here in the context of Isaiah 8:14,15?
Isaiah 8:16 KJB - Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:17 KJB - And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Isaiah 8:18 KJB - Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Q. Who then is "Israel", and who are His "Children" that were "given" Him, and from whom were they "given" from, and how do we know? Cite those verses.

Q. Who is the "they" in Isaiah 8:20?

LittleLambofJesus said:

I would venture to guess it is the corrupt Pharisees, Sadducees and Chief Priests that Jesus spoke against in the NT...IMHO...

Click to expand...

Thank you for replying and so I see that you are acknowledging that you also see that the passages [Isaiah 8:13-20 & Isaiah 56:1-8, or minimally Isaiah 8:20] are pointing to those in the "NT" [New Testament] per your "O[pinion]". Perhaps you can attempt the previous [antecedent] Q's, before coming to the last Q.

Standing Up · Jan 19, 2015

Is 56:4 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Are these literal eunuchs?

Sabbaths is plural. To which is Isaiah referring?

listed · Jan 19, 2015

The Fundamentalist said:
Turn to Isaiah 56, and read vs 1 and then vs 8.

Q. Who is it speaking of?

Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Isaiah 56:3 KJB - Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I [am] a dry tree.

Isaiah 56:4 KJB - For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:5 KJB - Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 KJB - Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:8 specifically referenced anywhere in the New Testament, and if so, what Scripture does this point to prophetically? Cite that Verse.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:1-8 a contextual whole, in other words all speaking about the same things together?

Q. What then is the "my covenant" spoken of in Isaiah 56:1-8?

Q. Who then is to partake of the "my covenant" according to Isaiah 56:1-8?

Q. Now turn to Isaiah 8:14,15, and tell me who it is speaking of according to the New Testament? Cite those verses which specifically reference this:

Isaiah 8:14 KJB - And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 8:15 KJB - And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Now please continue reading Isaiah 8:16-20.

Q. Who then are the "my disciples" spoken of here in the context of Isaiah 8:14,15?
Isaiah 8:16 KJB - Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:17 KJB - And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Isaiah 8:18 KJB - Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Q. Who then is "Israel", and who are His "Children" that were "given" Him, and from whom were they "given" from, and how do we know? Cite those verses.

Q. Who is the "they" in Isaiah 8:20?

~~Why do you refuse to consider the stipulations of Isa 56 you quoted? You really mean all mankind which the passage excludes with the requirements.~~

listed · Jan 19, 2015

The Fundamentalist said:
Thank you for replying and so I see that you are acknowledging that you also see that the passages [Isaiah 8:13-20 & Isaiah 56:1-8, or minimally Isaiah 8:20] are pointing to those in the "NT" [New Testament] per your "O[pinion]". Perhaps you can attempt the previous [antecedent] Q's, before coming to the last Q.

Who do you think the folks in 8:20 are? Your compilation leads me to believe you are using the passage to condemn those who do not agree with you.

The Fundamentalist · Jan 19, 2015

Standing Up said:
Is 56:4 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Are these literal eunuchs?

...

There are physical eunuchs and spiritual ones. Yet the questions are not about the eunuchs, and perhaps you may attempt those questions, though thank you for the reply.

The Fundamentalist · Jan 19, 2015

Is there a particular reason why the majority of the OP questions are being avoided? I am curious.

Standing Up · Jan 19, 2015

The Fundamentalist said:
Is there a particular reason why the majority of the OP questions are being avoided? I am curious.

Mainly because your point is lost. Your questions don't make sense. Tell us what you think and why, then we can go from there. But look, I'll help.

Q. Is Isaiah 56:8 specifically referenced anywhere in the New Testament, and if so, what Scripture does this point to prophetically? Cite that Verse.

A. Jn. 10:16, Eph. 1:10

Q. Is Isaiah 56:1-8 a contextual whole, in other words all speaking about the same things together?

A. No idea what you're asking.

Q. What then is the "my covenant" spoken of in Isaiah 56:1-8?

A. The new covenant.

Q. Who then is to partake of the "my covenant" according to Isaiah 56:1-8?

A. Those who believe and are born-again.

childofdust · Jan 20, 2015

The Fundamentalist said:
Turn to Isaiah 56, and read vs 1 and then vs 8.

Q. Who is it speaking of?

Isaiah 56-66 takes place after the exiles had begun returning to Jerusalem after Cyrus' decree. It is a response to the Israelite community now in Jerusalemto those who thought the promises of Isaiah 40-55 hadn't come truewho are beginning to wonder if Isaiah 40-55 lied to them.

Thus, for instance, Isaiah 60:4 revisits Isaiah 49:22 by talking about the Israelite people's sons and daughters being carried back to Jerusalem by gentiles who have joined them on the return journey:

Isaiah 60:4: Your sons from afar will come and your daughters [at] the hip will be carried.
Isaiah 49:22: They (the gentiles) will bring your sons at [their] breast and your daughters will be carried on their shoulder.

It was promised, in Isaiah 40-55, that gentiles would be turning to YHWHeven gentile kings!and that they themselves would bring the Israelites home. But that has not yet happened. So one of the things that Isaiah 56 does is it re-affirms what has already been said. Yes, gentiles are coming to Jerusalem to serve YHWH. In fact foreigners will rebuild your walls and their kings will serve you (60:10). This obviously was spoken at a time when Jerusalem's walls were not yet rebuilt, which means before the time of Nehemiah (who headed the efforts to rebuild the walls).

Thus, Isaiah 56 talks about foreigners not being excluded. Even eunuchs will be welcomeso generous is the god of Jacob! After all, the Law had precluded people such as they from even joining the assembly (Deut 23:1), but now, in this new restoration of the Jewish people in Jerusalem, they will have full access to the house of Yah and membership among Jerusalem's people (56:5)! So if the God of Israel is doing this for foreigners...how much more will he do it for his own people! Thus, Isaiah 56 is a word of hope for the people of Jerusalem. Keep the ways of Yah and even the gentiles will be restored! And you will see it all on my holy mount (56:7).

The Fundamentalist said:
Q. Is Isaiah 56:8 specifically referenced anywhere in the New Testament, and if so, what Scripture does this point to prophetically? Cite that Verse.

Obvious quotations from Isaiah 56:8:
Matt 21:13 - And He said to them, "It is written, My house will be called a house of prayer. But you are making it a den of thieves!"
Mark 11:17 - Then He began to teach them: "Is it not written, My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations? But you have made it a den of thieves!"
Luke 13:46 - and He said, "It is written, My house will be a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves!"

Less obvious references to the material in Isaiah 56:
John 10:16 - But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also.
- other sheep are a reference to gentiles - a continuance of the widespread belief, boosted by Isaiah 56 particularly, that gentiles would become part of the restoration of Zion.
2 Thess 2:1 - Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him:
- a continuance of the widespread belief, boosted by Isaiah 56 particularly, that God would gather the scattered exiles back to Jerusalem. This is said to have been fulfilled by Yeshua already.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. Is Isaiah 56:1-8 a contextual whole, in other words all speaking about the same things together?

Click to expand...

Without doubt as scholars and theologians for over a century have shown.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. What then is the "my covenant" spoken of in Isaiah 56:1-8?

Click to expand...

The same covenant that is spoken of in Isaiah 40-55. As Isaiah 54 says: a covenant of peace in which Jerusalem will be glorified, in which the people are righteous, in which oppression is far from them. As Isaiah 49 and 42 say: a covenant of favor and salvation when the Servant will bring Jacob back to God and be a light to the nations.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. Who then is to partake of the "my covenant" according to Isaiah 56:1-8?

Click to expand...

All peoplesJew and gentile.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. Now turn to Isaiah 8:14,15, and tell me who it is speaking of according to the New Testament?

Click to expand...

To name a few...

Luke 20:17-18 - But He looked at them and said, "Then what is the meaning of this Scripture: The stone that the builders rejected-- this has become the cornerstone? Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, and if it falls on anyone, it will grind him to powder!"

- Yeshua tells the chief priests, scribes, and elders in the temple complex that they are the ones referred to in Isaiah 8:14-15 those who will stumble and fall and be crushed because they have rejected the cornerstone of the new temple (that is, Yeshua).

Romans 9:33 - As it is written: Look! I am putting a stone in Zion to stumble over, and a rock to trip over, yet the one who believes on Him will not be put to shame.

- Yeshua is the stone a stumbling block to some in Zion to trip over, but righteousness to those who believeboth Jew and gentile.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. Who then are the "my disciples" spoken of here in the context of Isaiah 8:14,15?

Click to expand...

My disciples are the prophet Isaiah's disciplesthe prophet who lived in the 8th Century BC before the fall of the Assyrian empire. This is part of his mission as outlined in ch. 6 by God to keep the people of Israel from actually know the truth to make them blind and deaf to it. And part of doing that is actually keeping them from reading or hearing god's judgment against them. Thus, he has his disciples bind it up.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. Who then is "Israel"?

Click to expand...

Israel is the two houses of Israel and Judah (8:14) - in other words, the 12 tribes. The same people to whom Isaiah and his children have been given to as signs.

The Fundamentalist said:

and who are His "Children" that were "given" Him

Click to expand...

Maher Shalal Hash Baz and Shear Yashub.

The Fundamentalist said:

and from whom were they "given" from, and how do we know? Cite those verses.

Click to expand...

They were given by YHWH. We know because scripture links god's direct order to the prophet involving the name of a child with the sudden pregnancy of Isaiah's wife and the same name of that child:

Isaiah 8:1-4:
Then the LORD said to me, "Take a large piece of parchment and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-shalal-hash-baz. I have appointed trustworthy witnesses-- Uriah the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberechiah. I was then intimate with the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. The LORD said to me, "Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz, for before the boy knows how to call out father or mother, the wealth of Damascus and the spoils of Samaria will be carried off to the king of Assyria."

We also know this because he has another son whose name is important in the same prophetic context. We are told in Isaiah 7:3-9 that Isaiah is to take his son Shear Yashub (which means a remainder will return) with him to tell the King of Judah not to fear the kingdoms of Aram or Israel because they will both be destroyed. His son is a sign that despite all that occurs to the kingdom of Israel, a remainder will return. The northern kingdom might be destroyed and the threat removed from Judah, but that doesn't mean God will annihilate his own people. God's faithfulness remains perpetually.

The Fundamentalist said:

Q. Who is the "they" in Isaiah 8:20?

Click to expand...

The same they who are in Isaiah 8:19:
When they say to you, "Consult the spirits of the dead and the spiritists who chirp and mutter," shouldn't a people consult their God? [Should they consult] the dead on behalf of the living?

Instead of looking at the living signs that God has given them (Isaiah and his children), they look for signs among the dead.

Mark51 · Sep 20, 2015

Isaiah chapter 56 begins with admonition to the Jews. The inhabitants of Judah-including non-Jews-who were seeking salvation from God must obey the Mosaic Law, observing justice and leading righteous lives. I believe that this was a pronouncement for that time and likewise for the future. Meaning, that all-modern day-true worshipers should take heed of what the prophet wrote.

During the time of the end, Jehovah has collected “the dispersed ones of Israel,” those of the anointed remnant. In addition, he is collecting others, those of the great crowd. Together they worship in peace and harmony under the oversight of Jehovah and his enthroned King, Christ Jesus. They now are united into one joyful “flock.“

In comparison with such, you perhaps consider yourself an outsider or a foreigner, so to speak, because of your previous way of life and total lack of interest in religion. Many are in such a position today. Do not quickly give up, however. Keep in mind that among the many petitions that Solomon presented to Jehovah at the dedication of the temple, he prayed for “the foreigner, who is no part of your people Israel and who actually comes from a distant land by reason of your name.” He prayed that “you [Jehovah] must do according to all that for which the foreigner calls to you; in order that all the peoples of the earth may get to know your name so as to fear you the same as your people Israel do.”-1 Kings. 8:41-43.

Search

Search

Isaiah 8:13-20, & Isaiah 56:1-8, Who is..., what is...?

The Fundamentalist

New-manbie

More options

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

More options

The Fundamentalist

New-manbie

More options

Standing Up

On and on

More options

listed

are you?

More options

listed

are you?

More options

The Fundamentalist

New-manbie

More options

The Fundamentalist

New-manbie

More options

Standing Up

On and on

More options

childofdust

Newbie

More options

Mark51

Newbie

More options

Similar threads