Rapture, Resurrection and 2nd Coming:

The woman gives birth at the star sign of Rev 12 at Rosh Hashanah 2017. After "3.5 days" the "child"/ Zion is born (Jupiter moves through the 'hips' of Virgo) on Sept 23, 2017 and is caught up to God ("come up here"). Since 3.5 days also means 3.5 years, it is describing the 42 months of the woman being in the wilderness. After the 42 months, she is not in the wilderness anymore.

There is no "rapture" - there is only being gathered in the wilderness after the initial tribulation causes her to have to go into the wilderness - for 42 months.

Satan has already been thrown down before Rosh Hashanah 2017 - he is ready to devour Christians/ "Zion" as it is being born.
Why does it say,
The "flood" is the reference to "as in the days of Noah" in Matt 24.

Who is the "earth"? The beast from the earth, the false prophet. It is the false prophet who saves the woman (the woman is both good and bad Jews and Christians - good Jews keep the commandments of God, good Christians hold to the testimony of Jesus. The 5 foolish virgins go with the false prophet, the 5 wise virgins do not get with the false prophet. the Beast from the sea and the beast from the earth wage war against the 5 wise virgins in the wilderness.) The false prophet appears to be a superpowered hero (think Superman). This "Superman" makes a covenant with the beast from the sea and creates world wide peace. - starting dusk May 11, 2018 (the last day of the "days of Noah") to July 4, 2021. (the false prophet / earth from Rev 12:15-17 swallows up the flood - meaning ends the flood on the last day of the days of Noah, 27 Iyyar, dusk May 11, 2018.

To the 5 foolish virgins, Superman/ (or maybe something like Capt America) is standing up for Christians - he just saved them, didn't he? So what if he is making a covenant with Death and Hades.

You make a good observation that the kingdom of God starts at the same time as Satan is thrown down (Rev 12:9-11). The false prophet is imitating Christ for the new "zion" that has been birthed at the star sign. But the 5 wise virgins don't appear to have Christ just yet. They still have to be gathered in the wilderness.

Inkfingers said:

I do not believe that the woman is the constellation Virgo but rather the Bride who is now married and pregnant.

There clearly is a rapture as the several verses I quoted at the start (Matt, Cor, Thess) say so.

I'm not date-setting. I'm just setting out the timeline.

I see no reason to associate the dragons water with that.

There is no reason to divide the group into two. More likely it is those who are desperate after the Rapture and so try both faith and works.

Again, I'm not date-setting.

It seems to be something quite a few miss - that Christs rule begins at the 7th Trumpet, just as Satan is also cast down, all marking the beginning of the 7 bowls (which only last a "short time") at the end of which Babylon falls.

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I do not believe that the woman is the constellation Virgo but rather the Bride who is now married and pregnant.

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There is nothing about the 'bride' being 'pregnant' in the Bible. There is the birth of Zion in a day, and this is in many, many places.

This star sign at Rosh Hashanah 2017 is as much a "sign in the heavens" as any "blood moon" stuff that sends people into a tizzy. Actually, it is much more important.

I'm not date-setting. I'm just setting out the timeline.

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Dates are important. "Appointed feasts" are important. It clearly matters to God to have precision, but we aren't allowed this?

There clearly is a rapture as the several verses I quoted at the start (Matt, Cor, Thess) say so.

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What you call the rapture, being whisked away, is God saying "come up here"

Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 3And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. 6They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. 7And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pita will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, 8and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolicallyb is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. 9For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, 10and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. 11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

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This "3.5 days" is 3.5 days after the star sign of Rev 12
3.5 literal days ongoing through 3.5 "days" (meaning years/ = the 1260 days)

the 5 wise virgins are the 144,000/ the 2 witnesses in the wilderness that becomes the New Jerusalem. Being "gathered in the wilderness" is the witnessing. There is no "whisked away" rapture. Who is going to be a light for the world?

2And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsa of God.


10“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


11“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


13“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet.
14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so thatb they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

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The witnessing is this being "caught up to heaven" in Rev 12:5 above. The witnessing and being persecuted results in God saying, "come up here". You have to witness before being "caught up". Christ will keep us from the hour of temptation - the temptation of taking the mark of the beast, if we are faithful to Him.

If all the good Christians are "whisked away", who will be the "light of the world"?

The city is "Jerusalem" that becomes New Jerusalem.

Good Christians are the stone that destroys Babylon.
What "mountain" is that that is being thrown into the sea? That is Trumpet 2's "burning mountain" that was thrown into the sea!


Daniel 2:44
The "stone" breaks the statue of Babylon, the iron, bronze, silver, and gold empires (the clay represents repentant "Israel" see Isaiah 64:8.



When the mark of the beast is enforced, good Jews and Christians will not take it. It is they who are the "burdensome stone".
Good Jews and Christians will not get with the program and it makes the world angry, because they just want their "normal life back" and if only these Christians/ people would just do what they are told, the world would be right....


Do you see how the world is falling apart nowadays? It sucks, for sure, but that is just Satan on his way to being dead. Why is it dying? Because Satan is selfish and he doesn't care about people. He wants the world to work for him, he wants his techno-geegaws but he doesn't want to take care of people. So, the mark of the beast is sort of like people killing their own selves because they are swearing allegiance to a system that will kill them at its soonest convenience. How dumb is that? If you don't have the mark, you are showing the world that there is another way, a way forward that takes care of people - because we will be taking care of people - that is the burdensome stone that people don't want to face.

Hi
the woman in the sky IS an astronomical event friend.
It's a date.

People debate the meaning of each character, and the star/planet that represents them
but it's clearly a sign in the heavens for us to physically see.

If we could agree on the players and the planets/stars that represent them, we could all probably figure out good possibilities for the start of Rev12's particular time clock

Rev 12 is what we refer to as a parenthetical chapter, an insert, so a to better explain a situation or order.

As you note, Christ has come at the 7th trump...
it's over.

the events described in the 13th chapter are already over.
no more killing saints etc..

The "rapture" is at the 7th trumpet, but that is not pre trib, that is post trib.

Revelation cannot be completely understood if you interpret it in a linear fashion.

If you'd like to go over some more details, let me know.

Chris

mark of the beast could be a Islamic headband with writing on it that LOOKS like greek letters for 666 but says something else...

i was taught that it was a spiritual choice that each of us has to make when the false Christ gets here.

God's mark is not a physical mark. Ex 13, Deut 6, 11, Rev 7, 14
Satan's mark is described as being in the same place, so I doubt it is a physical mark either.

Inkfingers said:

Indeed.

The trumpets are trib.

The bowls are wrath.

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I see these a bit differently. If you compare the 7 trumpets with the 7 bowls you can see a very definite similarity in what is affected by each. I view the trumpets and bowls as different perspectives on the same things. So, they are essentially identical, referring to the same events.

Inkfingers said:

My first serious piece of attempted End Times exegesis....

Rapture, Resurrection and 2nd Coming:


We know from Matthew 24 that the second coming will be after a darkening of the sun and the moon; at which point Christ comes in the clouds with glory and gathers his elect at the sound of a trumpet.


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matt 24:29-31)


And we know from 1 Cor 15:


"we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15: 50-52)


And we know from 1 Thess 4 that:


"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thess 4: 16-17)


So how does this align with the last of the 7 Trumpets? Well, we know that both the 6th Seal and the 4th Trumpet are a darkening of the sun and moon:


"When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood" (Rev 6:12)


"The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened" (Rev 8:12)


So it is almost certainly speaking of a time after then. Plus the trumpet and last trumpet references from Matt, Cor and Thess are clear to see in Rev...


"Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”" (Rev 11:15)


So Christ's kingdom begins on Earth at the 7th trumpet.


And Rev 10 tells us that:


"but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled" (Rev 10:7)


Add into this the fact that we know that the Dragon will be cast to earth at the same time (the last trumpet / first bowl):


"And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come" (Rev 12: 9-10)


And it is not long from the beginning of the bowls of wrath to the end of them, hence:


"the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short" (Rev 12:12)


After the dragon has fallen, after its unsuccessful attempt to attack the woman in heaven (the now pregnant Bride? - Rev 12: 1-2) it is seen to stand on the sand of the sea:


“And he stood on the sand of the sea” (Rev 12:17)


Chasing after those who convert after the rapture:


“those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus” (Rev 12:17)


Immediately after this, the very next verse, is the Beast rising out of the Sea with 7 heads (same as the Dragon) which leads immediately on into the massacre of the new converts:


“it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them” (Rev 13:7)


the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation:


“telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain” (Rev 13:14-15)


and the mark of the beast:


“it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name” (Rev 13:16)


Conclusions:


I think it is pretty clear that the Resurrection and the Rapture both happen at the start of Christ's Kingdom on earth, when the dragon is cast from Heaven and the 7th Trumpet sounds.


I think it is also pretty clear that the Mark of the Beast comes after this time, during which the new converts (converted after, or in seeing, the rapture) are slaughtered by the Beast and the 7 bowl judgements are poured out.


So what are we looking for in the run up to this?


A rain of fire and hail (Trumpet 1)


A mountain of fire falling into the ocean. (Trumpet 2)


The wormwood star falling. (Trumpet) 3


1/3rd of the sun and moon darkened for a 1/3rd of the day and a 1/3rd of the night (Trumpet 4)


Apollyon released from the pit, leading a demonic locusts but who are forbidden to touch those marked with the seal of God. (Trumpet 5 - 1st woe)


1/3rd of mankind killed by a demonic army. 2 witnesses killed. (Trumpet 6 - 2nd woe)


And then all hell breaks loose for the 3rd woe (which is what I have detailed throughout this paper).

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You are looking at the things that are similar but not at the differences ..

In Matt 24 there is a lot of words that this will happen then this will happen then ... As 1 cor 15:51-53 we depart at any time...

Lot of people have problems with the trumpets ... Last trumpet of grace... Last trumpet in battle... Last trumpet of law period ...

Same goes for judgements ..... 1 cor 15:23 states three different judgements

InkFingers said:

My first serious piece of attempted End Times exegesis....

Rapture, Resurrection and 2nd Coming:


We know from Matthew 24 that the second coming will be after a darkening of the sun and the moon; at which point Christ comes in the clouds with glory and gathers his elect at the sound of a trumpet.


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matt 24:29-31)


And we know from 1 Cor 15:


"we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15: 50-52)


And we know from 1 Thess 4 that:


"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thess 4: 16-17)

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"After the Tribulation" Matt 24
- the "Dead in Christ rise FIRST" 1Thess 4
and "This is the FIRST resurrection...the REST of the dead do not come to life until AFTER the 1000 years" Rev 20

In Matt there was no such thing yet did not happen till act 8 I believe

For the readers: there is MUCH error in these posts, but there is some truth.

"The tribulation" or better the 70th week is NOT FOR CHRISTIANS: if you go back and read Daniel the entire 70 weeks are for DANIEL's people or the descendants of Jacob. God's purpose is written in Daniel 12: to COMPLETELY SHATTER the power of Israel until they have no hope but God.

The truth is, the BEAST of Revelation 13 will be given power and authority over all believers, Jew and Gentile alike, to force them to take the mark or lose their head. There is no verse anywhere that gives Gentile believers any hope for that time. Their faith can ONLY be what God says: they will be overcome. It is preposterous then to even think or imagine that God's plan is for His bride to go through such a time of His wrath. That theory is not God.

"The tribulation of those days" does not begin in Revelation until after chapter 14. Why? It is very clear, God would not warn people to refuse the mark after the mark had been enforced. That warning is in chapter 14 of Revelation. Truly the days of GT with the enforced mark of the Beast will not begin until AFTER chapter 14. However, in chapter 12 the Beast goes after the Jews who fled.

Next, the "first" or primary resurrection is for ALL the righteous; from Jesus as the firstfruits to those who lose their head. There will be only TWO resurrections: one for the righteous, and one for the unrighteous a thousand years later. Therefore ALL the righteous will take part (in their order) in the primary resurrection. If anyone disagrees, perhaps they can point to where John gives any TIMING to this "first" resurrection.

Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 15 that the rapture was a MYSTERY: something not before revealed. Therefore the gathering in Matthew 24 is NOT the rapture. Anyway, Paul teaches us in 1 Thes 4 & 5 that HIS rapture will come before the Day of the Lord and as the trigger for the Day. When the dead in Christ rise, that rising will cause a worldwide earthquake (see Matthew 27): worldwide because the CHURCH is worldwide. That earthquake is Paul's "sudden destruction." We find that earthquake at the 6th seal in Revelation, where John calls it the "day of His wrath." The rapture then, will come JUST BEFORE the "sudden destruction." Paul is telling us that there is coming a "SUDDENLY:" the catching up of the dead in Christ. At this sudden event, which will take place on a day like today - a time of peace and safety - Paul tells us two different kinds of people get two different results: the righteous get raptured, while the unrighteous get "sudden destruction."

It is clear then that Paul is teaching a PRE-70th week rapture, and PRE-Day of the Lord rapture. In Revelation that rapture will take place just before the 6th seal and start of the DAY.

There IS NO COMING at the 7th trumpet. This trumpet is NOT the "last trump" of Paul's writing. Yes, the 7th trumpet in Revelation is the last of THAT SERIES, but it is not the say series of trumpets. They are all sounded by angels. It is JEsus Himself that sounds the "last trump." It will indeed be the final trumpet blast of the church age, for the moment of the rapture, time changes to the Day of the Lord.

This is exactly what John wrote of those martyrs under the altar: they have to wait for the FINAL church age martyr before Judgment begins.

I understand there are about as many theories on this subject are there are people writing about it. I do not presume as some on this site to have all the answers, I still have some questions of my own. I will present some things I believe to be true and some I have questions about. I am willing to adjust my thinking if shown clear concise reasons from scripture. If you’re one who has all of the answers on the book of Revelation, and couldn’t possibly be wrong on anything, we may have to go back and forth a bit. I like to be shown why it so not just be told it is. It will be hard to condense this article, but I will try. I may even do it in sections.

Rev 1: 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I try to stay literal where possible, and many times if an interpretation is needed it is provided in the text. The churches I believe were literal churches in John’s day.

Rev. 1: 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Many good sermons have been preached by spiritualizing the seven churches into types for today’s application. That’s fine, but I like to stick with the literal. When we get into spiritualizing everything we get more into private interpretations. But I’m still open on that point somewhat, convince me!
I believe John went to heaven ( the third heaven) in the spirit not bodily. I’ve heard some try to say the church is raptured in chapter 4. I can’t accept that interpretation at all. Where’s the proof!

Now the 24 elders. Another widely debated subject. I touched on my belief on this site previously, but heard no response pro or con. Short version I’m not convinced they are raptured anybody, not apostles or elders from the Old Testament or even form this earth. I believe they are part of the heavenly host created by God. If this is a subject you would like to discuss I would be glad to in other posts.

Chapter 6, I agree with some on this post, some of the seals have already been opened, but disagree on some of the details.
The four horsemen: There are about as many interpretations on this one point as there are different views on the order of Revelation. I’ve read, studied and heard many ideas on this. Here is what works for me. This is not my personal revelation others are teaching this, I just believe it makes the most sense. In a nutshell, I believe the white horse represents Catholicism, the red horse communism, the black horse capitalism, and the pale or green horse, Islam. I also believe Rev, 6:1-8 is John’s vision of what Zechariah saw in Zech. 6: 1-8. Interesting both are identified by chapter 6:1-8. Again be glad to discuss in another post. So I believe we are living in the fulfilment of the 4 horsemen right now.

Seal # 5 I believe has already been opened as well.
Now we are to the point I will start to ruffle feathers. I believe the sixth seal is Matt. 24:29. No time to make all comparisons on every point some of that you will have to do for yourself.

This next statement is where a lot of us may part company. I believe the seals take us all the way to the second coming. I also believe the trumpets also end at the second coming even though they started at a point after the seals had already begun. I believe they over lap and end at about the same time. Likewise I believe the vials which start closer to the end also end at about the same time as the seals and trumpets. So the seals cover the longer period of time the trumpets are over a shorter period of time and the vials cover the shortest period of time and all three end at about the same time. Other chapters I believe are inserts that specifically describe in detail certain events.
Look at the sixth seal. Compare

Matt.24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Rev.6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Comparisons below copied from one of my previous posts.

When Matt 24:29 “ Immediately after the tribulation”
When Rev. 6:12 “when he had opened the sixth seal”

What Matt24:29 “shall the sun be darkened”
What Rev. 6:12 “the sun became black as sackcloth”

What Matt. 24:29 “the moon shall not give her light”
What Rev. 6:12 “the moon became as blood”

What Matt.24:13 “the stars shall fall from heaven”
What Rev. 6:13 “stars of heaven fell unto the earth”

What Matt.24:29 “the powers of the heavens shall be shaken”
What Rev. 6:14 “the heaven departed as a scroll”

What Matt.24:30 “then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn”
What Rev 6:15 “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains”



Matt.24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matt.24:30 “they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven”
Rev. 6:16 “hide us from the face of him”

Both passages I believe refer to the second coming of Christ. While one passage or the other gives more or less detail, they match perfectly on most. The seventh seal only last about a half an hour, no details are given, so why speculate.

I believe at least some of the trumpets have already sounded. I’m going to only touch on one. Just to make the point. Look at the second trumpet. Again I do not claim infallibility on this, I just believe this make some sense and have not seen a better explanation, I’m sure I’ll hear a few.

Rev.8: 8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Two points if John where shown the atomic bomb dropped on Japan in world war II in a vision, how might he describe it? Could be described as “a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea”.
Also of interest, if you look up the total number of ships that sank in WWII of those that participated almost exactly one third were sunk. Again I admit theory, what is yours and what evidence to you provide.

Let’s move on to the seventh trumpet.

Rev. 10: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Much discussion on this site about what the mystery of God is. Whatever your interpretation, it is finished in the days of the seventh trumpet.

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This sounds like the end to me. We are in the middle of the book and find language describing the end game.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Again in the middle of the book we find language that describes the end. How can that be if all is chronological?

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I submit to you that the seventh trumpet is the last trump at the end.

So far we have seen language in Revelation that speaks of Christ’s return at the end of the seals and trumpets. Looking forward to hearing how this is explained away.

Now to the vials.

Rev.16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

The first vial is poured on those who received the mark of the beast. This gives us a time reference as well as tells us it is specific and will not affect the church whom I believe are still on earth.

Each of the vials 2 thru 4 can be administered without affecting God’s people. God is not pouring out wrath indiscriminately. He can protect his people.

Vial 5 and 6 are location specific. Again not affecting God’s saints.

Now vial 7 places us again at the end, at Armageddon, the second coming we will fight that battle with Christ.

As I have shown, there is a very good case to be made that the seals, trumpets, and vials all end at about the same time. Therefore I believe it is not possible the book of Revelation is chronological from start to finish. This was just an overview not touching on many things. I’m still learning, and have a long way to go, but I have spent a lot of time and prayer in this book and do not take it lightly.

Rev 1: 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

With this description if the second coming we are up to about four in the book of Revelation.

In the book of Revelation, the Apostle John is given a series of visions.

There is a reference to the Harvest in chapter 14 which occurs at the Second Coming an is also seen later in the book at the battle of Armageddon. Therefore the book cannot be in pure chronological order. Those who claim it is in pure chronological order have yet to explain this problem.

Chapter 12 is a review of Church history. The man child who will rule with a rod of iron is Christ. Remember Joseph took the baby Jesus to Egypt to protect Him from Herod. Later in the chapter is a reference to the flood of Noah. Verse 12:12 explains that the trib is Satan's wrath.

The end of chapter 6 speaks of the wrath of the Lamb, this means the Lamb must be present at this point. It is a reference to the end when Christ returns. There is a reference to the islands and mountains being moved, which is the destruction of this sin-cursed world in preparation for the New Heavens and the New Earth. At the battle of Armageddon the mountains are destroyed.

I have yet to understand how some can overlook all of these problems and claim the book is in pure chronological order.
However, some must make the text fit their doctrine.

BABerean2 said:

In the book of Revelation, the Apostle John is given a series of visions.

There is a reference to the Harvest in chapter 14 which occurs at the Second Coming an is also seen later in the book at the battle of Armageddon. Therefore the book cannot be in pure chronological order. Those who claim it is in pure chronological order have yet to explain this problem.

Chapter 12 is a review of Church history. The man child who will rule with a rod of iron is Christ. Remember Joseph took the baby Jesus to Egypt to protect Him from Herod. Later in the chapter is a reference to the flood of Noah. Verse 12:12 explains that the trib is Satan's wrath.

The end of chapter 6 speaks of the wrath of the Lamb, this means the Lamb must be present at this point. It is a reference to the end when Christ returns. There is a reference to the islands and mountains being moved, which is the destruction of this sin-cursed world in preparation for the New Heavens and the New Earth. At the battle of Armageddon the mountains are destroyed.

I have yet to understand how some can overlook all of these problems and claim the book is in pure chronological order.
However, some must make the text fit their doctrine.

Click to expand...

Chapter 6 is from the beginning of the tribulation to the midpoint of the tribulation.