Most accurate Torah translation?

sickntired771 said:

I am trying to help an Orthodox Jewish friend learn about Yeshua but she keeps telling me that my NKJV is just mistranslating the Torah such as words like Almah and Elohim etc.

Is there a very solid copy of just the Old Testament with Hebrew/English side by side that I can show her that is used by religious Jews that makes our case that Yeshua is the Moshiach?

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You will want to use the Masoretic Text with him, as he will probably believe that all others are corrupted.

Here is a good online site that has the Hebrew bible in english using the 1917 JPS: Hebrew Bible in English / Mechon-Mamre

And here is the same site with a Hebrew-English Masoretic online: Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre I like this one and us it a lot.

And this one is helpful for you becaused it has the hebrew-transliteration-english all together. But it's not JPS based but KJV. A good tool though:
Genesis 1 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

You do know how to make your case for Yeshua from the prophets, no? And you do understand that each place where you do so their are counter missionaries who have beaten and hammered Yeshua right out of them? Just saying be aware of the anti-missionary arguments as they will eventually surface when trying to relate Yeshua to the Jewish prophets.

A good recource for that is Michael Brown's set of books "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus." I think there are currently 5 volumes in the set.

Or you could learn Hebrew and not be at the mercy of translators…

Shimshon said:

You will want to use the Masoretic Text with him, as he will probably believe that all others are corrupted.

Here is a good online site that has the Hebrew bible in english using the 1917 JPS: Hebrew Bible in English / Mechon-Mamre

And here is the same site with a Hebrew-English Masoretic online: Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre I like this one and us it a lot.

And this one is helpful for you becaused it has the hebrew-transliteration-english all together. But it's not JPS based but KJV. A good tool though:
Genesis 1 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

You do know how to make your case for Yeshua from the prophets, no? And you do understand that each place where you do so their are counter missionaries who have beaten and hammered Yeshua right out of them? Just saying be aware of the anti-missionary arguments as they will eventually surface when trying to relate Yeshua to the Jewish prophets.

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The 1917 JPS is essentially the same as the KJV. The new JPS translation (from 1985) is acceptable and worthwhile. Although, the entire goal of introducing someone to Yeshua seems risible to me. Who doesn't know about Jesus in this day and age? Really?

sickntired771 said:

Thank you Shimshon for the link to the online version. I did hear the 1917 version is the best one. I also heard Sands is a good copy used by Ortho?

I did hear the argument that the 1917 was based on Christian translations and hence that is why they changed it? Why did they change it from the 1917 version?

I have been using a bunch of different pieces of scripture to make the case but am getting typical anti-missionary arguments so I am still trying to solidify my case.

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Who told you that the 1917 JPS is good?! Most English-speaking Orthodox Jews that I know of use the Artscroll Chumash.

yonah_mishael said:

Who told you that the 1917 JPS is good?! Most English-speaking Orthodox Jews that I know of use the Artscroll Chumash.

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The 1917 is good because there is no commentary and is the KJV warmed over, whereas the Artscroll while having a better English translation, but also has that pesky Jewish commentary that doesn’t lend itself to supporting a triune God.

I personally own an Artscroll Chumash (called "the Stone Edition"), and can recommend it.

You can check out the preview section here:
http://www.amazon.com/Chumash-ArtSc...1262360&sr=1-1&keywords=chumash+stone+edition

The translation is very good in my opinion, and the commentary as well.
5/5 stars.

yonah_mishael said:

The 1917 JPS is essentially the same as the KJV. The new JPS translation (from 1985) is acceptable and worthwhile. Although, the entire goal of introducing someone to Yeshua seems risible to me. Who doesn't know about Jesus in this day and age? Really?

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It's not enough to know about him, the purpose is to know him intimately. Would you tell your wife 'it's enough I know about you' I don't need an intimate relationship with you? Or, 'your friends told me all about you...let's get married'?? I see your still missing the goal of the message Messiah gave. A personal relationship between God and you with nothing in the middle. But you're still reducing it to something worth laughing at. Really?

yonah_mishael said:

Who told you that the 1917 JPS is good?! Most English-speaking Orthodox Jews that I know of use the Artscroll Chumash.

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Most Messianic Jews I know use the Artscroll Chumash too.

Shimshon said:

It's not enough to know about him, the purpose is to know him intimately. Would you tell your wife 'it's enough I know about you' I don't need an intimate relationship with you? Or, 'your friends told me all about you...let's get married'?? I see your still missing the goal of the message Messiah gave. A personal relationship between God and you with nothing in the middle. But you're still reducing it to something worth laughing at. Really?

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You can touch and talk with your wife - and she will answer you! You cannot get an answer from Jesus, nor can you touch him. There is nothing comparable here. One is a real relationship; the other is something that's only in your heart. The fact is, everyone in the United States (and most people in the world) have already heard the story about Jesus. If they haven't accepted it, why push it on them by force? Obviously, the guy in this situation just said that he didn't trust the KJV as a way to get out of a conversation that he would really rather not have.

yonah_mishael said:

You can touch and talk with your wife - and she will answer you! You cannot get an answer from Jesus, nor can you touch him. There is nothing comparable here. One is a real relationship; the other is something that's only in your heart. The fact is, everyone in the United States (and most people in the world) have already heard the story about Jesus. If they haven't accepted it, why push it on them by force? Obviously, the guy in this situation just said that he didn't trust the KJV as a way to get out of a conversation that he would really rather not have.

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Yehsua was seen touched, died and risen again. But you don't believe that. So there is not much we can discuss here. People had a living relationship with a human who proved himself to be who God said he was throught he prophets, but you don't beleive that either, so again, not much to discuss. And I know flat out when I tell you I hear and speak to him you're going to deride my sanity. I've seen you so it before, so again, nothing to discuss here. Your rejection of our faith has made it impossible to have any worth while discussion in regards to faith in Yeshua here. You will simply laugh and mock it. I see your counter missionary hackles rising again. The OP said he was talking to a friend who was orthodox, and your mocking his actions as pushy and forceful. Can you realize you read that into this because of your anti-missionary mentality?

I think you are over-reacting here, Yonah. #1 - those of us who have a relationship with Messiah Yeshua find that He does give answers. No, not audibly, but through the Bible (both Older and Newer Testaments), through other people, dreams ...
When you hear someone say they followed their intuition, or their heart - did they hear audible voices? Did their heart speak out loud and give them an answer? But they say they received an answer to whatever they were contemplating. So, yes, Yeshua does answer. Can I touch Him? No, but it's a fact that people in 1st Century Israel did, and then after He returned to His Father, they couldn't touch him anymore. So did they say, "Well, we can't touch Yeshua anymore, so He must not exist?" When someone loses a spouse or child,and the touch is no longer there, do they dismiss that person and declare them non-existent?
#2 Not sure sickandtired mentioned that he was cramming Yeshua down her throat - "pushing it on her". Have you not countered someone's argument by pointing out something that you don't agree with? Come on, Yonah - Jews don't back away from discussion. They counter it. Give both Sickandtired and his friend some credit here.
#3 - no, not everyone has heard about "Jesus". And if they have, is what they heard valid truth, or someone's opinion? Like the opinions you are giving now.

sickntired771 said:

I sat down with her and discussed using the Artscroll Chumash today. The problem was the one we were looking at only had the 5 books of Moses and so I couldn't point out Messianic prophecy by the prophets.

I basically showed her Genesis 1:26 which is a debate in itself about God speaking plurally. I didn't push the concept of a Triune God on her, I simply said "what do you think of this" and she said she thought it was God talking to the angels. I told her I thought it was for a Triune God and that the angels aren't on the same level as God and that only God created us not the angels. She didn't have an answer, so I am planting seeds in her that her views are subject to discussion without pushing her to Yeshua.

I was told by Jews for Jesus that the 1917 JPS is very accurate because it is like King James. Did they just use KJV? If so, I can see why Jews would not trust that translation today.

How does Art Scroll hold up in other areas where we see discussion of Jesus or prophecy?

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A Chumash is only the five books of Moses. The Artscroll Stone edition Tanach is probably what you’re looking for.


Yes, the 1917 is the KJV English next to Hebrew.

The best anyone can do, is take it to the Lord in prayer, and ask them to pray also for guidance into the whole truth. A willing heart is a heart the Lord can enter and reveal Himself to them better than any argument given.

sickntired771 said:

I imagine I won't be able to buy a 1917 JPS anymore right? Why did they change it? What was the rationale?

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They changed it because the original JPS wasn't a translation on its own right. It was a clean-up of the KJV. The Jewish Publication Society finally got around to publishing their own translation, straight from the Hebrew, in 1985, and it's a good translation. The rationale was to create a better translation, and they did it.