Lutheran Church in Great Britain in Provoo Communion

EvangelCatholic · Jan 9, 2015

News - www.lutheranchurch.co.uk

Interesting articles about the development of full communion between the Lutheran Church in Great Britain and Church of England. A bishop from the Church of Sweden was installed as the new bishop of LCiGB allowing entry into the Provoo Communion.

Resha Caner · Jan 9, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
Interesting articles about the development of full communion between the Lutheran Church in Great Britain and Church of England. A bishop from the Church of Sweden was installed as the new bishop of LCiGB allowing entry into the Provoo Communion.

I don't know anything about it, but such things usually throw up warning flags for me. I don't recall this ever meaning churches have agreed to communion with Confessional Lutheranism, but it's usually the other way round.

EvangelCatholic · Jan 10, 2015

Wasn't the LCiGB once affiliated with the LCMS?

SalusaSecundus · Jan 10, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
News - www.lutheranchurch.co.uk

Interesting articles about the development of full communion between the Lutheran Church in Great Britain and Church of England. A bishop from the Church of Sweden was installed as the new bishop of LCiGB allowing entry into the Provoo Communion.

For full union with the Anglicans, do Lutherans need to subscribe to he distinctly unLutheran view of the eucharist as laid out in the 39 Articles?

EvangelCatholic · Jan 10, 2015

SalusaSecundus said:
For full union with the Anglicans, do Lutherans need to subscribe to he distinctly unLutheran view of the eucharist as laid out in the 39 Articles?

No, of-course not. The issue of the Real Presence is important for Lutherans and Roman Catholics and, subsequently, a major factor in successful Dialogue outcomes. But the LWF/ ELCA position is that a profession of the Catholic faith identified in the 3 ecumenical creeds [at least the Apostles and Nicene] is sufficient for unity with other Protestants. The fact that many Anglicans believe in the Real Presence also supports the movement for unification.

I have very little information on Lutheran-Reformed full communion other than a few merged parishes that seem much more Lutheran than Presbyterian [i.e. weekly holy Communion, eucharistic vestments, altar, crucifix, etc]. Calvinism rejects the Real Presence as articulated by Lutherans and Catholics but are in agreement with us on the overwhelming majority of theological positions.

porterross · Jan 10, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
Wasn't the LCiGB once affiliated with the LCMS?

No, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England (ELCE) is and there is a seminary in Cambridge.

Their website: ELCE

MarkRohfrietsch · Jan 11, 2015

porterross said:
No, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England (ELCE) is and there is a seminary in Cambridge.

Their website: ELCE

Not only are you correct but the ELCE is not in fellowship with the Swedish Chruch.

Resha Caner · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
But the LWF/ ELCA position is that a profession of the Catholic faith identified in the 3 ecumenical creeds [at least the Apostles and Nicene] is sufficient for unity with other Protestants.

What kind of "unity" are you talking about here?

EvangelCatholic · Jan 11, 2015

Resha Caner said:
What kind of "unity" are you talking about here?

Agreement on the apostles/ nicene creed each Sunday is sufficient for partaking in the Eucharist. Sadly, that leaves out many Protestants.

Resha Caner · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
Agreement on the apostles/ nicene creed each Sunday is sufficient for partaking in the Eucharist. Sadly, that leaves out many Protestants.

I see. I don't think the LCMS agrees with that.

EvangelCatholic · Jan 11, 2015

Resha Caner said:
I see. I don't think the LCMS agrees with that.

Why is that not enough to recieve our Lord in His Supper?

SalusaSecundus · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
Why is that not enough to recieve our Lord in His Supper?

Communion means communion with God and also communion with each other. We cannot condone gross error in other church bodies.

Resha Caner · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
Why is that not enough to recieve our Lord in His Supper?

In short because the Creeds say nothing about the Eucharist. How do you know you agree about what you're doing when the requirements for admission don't speak about what you're doing? There would need to be explicit agreement on real presence because of the concerns expressed in 1 Cor 11:17-34.

The longer answer can be found here:
http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=411

MarkRohfrietsch · Jan 11, 2015

Resha Caner said:
I see. I don't think the LCMS agrees with that.

No, but it is a starting point.

Resha Caner said:
In short because the Creeds say nothing about the Eucharist. How do you know you agree about what you're doing when the requirements for admission don't speak about what you're doing? There would need to be explicit agreement on real presence because of the concerns expressed in 1 Cor 11:17-34.

The longer answer can be found here:
http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=411

"This is most certainly true."

Resha Caner · Jan 11, 2015

MarkRohfrietsch said:
No, but it is a starting point.

Sure. That's why I asked what kind of "unity" was meant. I've no problem talking to Christians of other denominations ... if I did, I wouldn't be here at CF. I have no problem working with others on social issues (per a 2 kingdoms perspective). I just don't want to imply a unity that isn't there.

EvangelCatholic · Jan 11, 2015

I think the ELCA and LWF will have intercommunion with Rome before St Louis.

SalusaSecundus · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
I think the ELCA and LWF will have intercommunion with Rome before St Louis.

I don't doubt you, although Rome is never going to recognize lesbian and openly gay priests and bishops.

But if it's going to be the ELCA then St. Louis, that means Milwaukee is light years from cuddling up with Rome, and I am overjoyed at that.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
I think the ELCA and LWF will have intercommunion with Rome before St Louis.

If such were to be the case, it would preclude altar fellowship with the with the Catholic Church and the LCMS, LCC and other Confessional Lutheran Communions.

It is that simple.

EvangelCatholic · Jan 11, 2015

SalusaSecundus said:
I don't doubt you, although Rome is never going to recognize lesbian and openly gay priests and bishops.

But if it's going to be the ELCA then St. Louis, that means Milwaukee is light years from cuddling up with Rome, and I am overjoyed at that.

Did you read about the Catholic bishop's comment on same-sex marriage?

Belgian bishop says Catholic Church should bless same-sex couples - The Washington Post

SalusaSecundus · Jan 11, 2015

EvangelCatholic said:
Did you read about the Catholic bishop's comment on same-sex marriage?

Belgian bishop says Catholic Church should bless same-sex couples - The Washington Post

Yes I heard about it. Thankfully it's only one errant bishop.

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