1 Thess. 4:17 - The sole verse on the rapture in the entire Bible

101 · Jan 10, 2015

The term 'rapture', as it may be rendered into English, is used a grand total of one time in the entire Bible;
namely, Jerome's Latin Vulgate. It is used by Paul to describe the events within the universal resurrection of the dead. In this context there is nothing about a hidden rapture. There is nothing hidden about it. It is nothing less than the Epiphany, the Manifestation of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Appearance in Glory.

There is nothing about him ever coming back to earth after this. There is nothing about any other believers who might become believers after this time. There is nothing about any of this because both Christ and all the resurrected of all ages will have been 'raptured' to Heaven to be with the Lord Jesus forever. There is no coming back, either of Christ or the resurrected.

I don't know how Dispensationalists craft their wares, but however they do so regarding some notion of a Pre-tribulation Rapture, they cannot exegete it out of this passage. It isn't there. Nor is such a notion any part of Paul's eschatology. It is simply foreign to anything Paul ever wrote or even hinted about in his epistles.

13 nolumus autem vos ignorare fratres de dormientibus ut non contristemini sicut et ceteri qui spem non habent 14 si enim credimus quod Iesus mortuus est et resurrexit ita et Deus eos qui dormierunt per Iesum adducet cum eo 15 hoc enim vobis dicimus in verbo Domini quia nos qui vivimus qui residui sumus in adventum Domini non praeveniemus eos qui dormierunt 16 quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi 17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [raptured] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, there you have it--the sole usage of 'rapture' in the entire Bible. No 1000 year reign on earth. No Tribulation. No hidden raptures, No second chances. No dispensation of the Jews in a Temple in Jerusalem. No Tribulation Forces. No Nicolai Carpathias. No signs. No wonders. And never to return to this world again--both Christ and the ransomed of all ages. Just the universal bodily resurrection and rapture to heaven in the clouds with Jesus Christ, both of the dead and the living at the Trumpet of God with the voice of the archangel.

BABerean2 · Jan 10, 2015

101 said:
The term 'rapture', as it may be rendered into English, is used a grand total of one time in the entire Bible;
namely, Jerome's Latin Vulgate. It is used by Paul to describe the events within the universal resurrection of the dead. In this context there is nothing about a hidden rapture. There is nothing hidden about it. It is nothing less than the Epiphany, the Manifestation of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Appearance in Glory.

There is nothing about him ever coming back to earth after this. There is nothing about any other believers who might become believers after this time. There is nothing about any of this because both Christ and all the resurrected of all ages will have been 'raptured' to Heaven to be with the Lord Jesus forever. There is no coming back, either of Christ or the resurrected.

I don't know how Dispensationalists craft their wares, but however they do so regarding some notion of a Pre-tribulation Rapture, they cannot exegete it out of this passage. It isn't there. Nor is such a notion any part of Paul's eschatology. It is simply foreign to anything Paul ever wrote or even hinted about in his epistles.
13 nolumus autem vos ignorare fratres de dormientibus ut non contristemini sicut et ceteri qui spem non habent 14 si enim credimus quod Iesus mortuus est et resurrexit ita et Deus eos qui dormierunt per Iesum adducet cum eo 15 hoc enim vobis dicimus in verbo Domini quia nos qui vivimus qui residui sumus in adventum Domini non praeveniemus eos qui dormierunt 16 quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi 17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [raptured] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, there you have it--the sole usage of 'rapture' in the entire Bible. No 1000 year reign on earth. No Tribulation. No hidden raptures, No second chances. No dispensation of the Jews in a Temple in Jerusalem. No Tribulation Forces. No Nicolai Carpathias. No signs. No wonders. And never to return to this world again--both Christ and the ransomed of all ages. Just the universal bodily resurrection and rapture to heaven in the clouds with Jesus Christ, both of the dead and the living at the Trumpet of God with the voice of the archangel.

I agree with just about everything above.

The one thing we may not understand until it happens is that Christ brings in the New Heavens and the New Earth when He returns. Our exact location in this new dimension of space and time is not completely clear.

According to the parable of the wheat and tares, the wicked will be removed, but the wheat will remain to be gathered into the barn.

We will have real resurrected immortal bodies and may walk on the New Earth with Abraham and David. However, we may just have to wait to find out.

Thank you for your strong stand, based on God's Word.

Respectfully,

.

Interplanner · Jan 10, 2015

And don't forget, that's in a passage about how the world was expected to end at the time of the DofJ. That leaves things open for God to pretty much do as he pleases.

Rev20 · Jan 10, 2015

Interplanner said:
And don't forget, that's in a passage about how the world was expected to end at the time of the DofJ. That leaves things open for God to pretty much do as he pleases.

God always does as He pleases; and He is always right.

PhillipLaSpino · Jan 10, 2015

101, nice post if you were writing a novel, but incorrect if you're speaking of the Scriptures. You are aware that only Paul speaks of the Rapture. We cant go to Isaiah, Exodus or Daniel and teach the Rapture; neither will you find it in the four gospels or the book of Revelation. Only Paul who is the apostle of the Gentiles has been given this mystery 1 Cor.15:51, by God (the Father) to reveal to us (the saved).Now, if you would like, I will discuss this with you one point at a time and only if you have an open mind and approach the subject honestly. If not, I dont want to waste your time of mine.Phil LaSpino

Interplanner · Jan 10, 2015

Just don't forget that rapture refers to the emotional state in a person who hears the greeting of a long lost friend or someone they thought dead. The only purpose for mentioning something other than death as the portal through which we must pass to God is that there is a final day and everything will be changed. The people alive at that end day will be changed, not dead. All of it will happen very quickly.

It is as perfunctory as explaining how a car ferry empties. 'people get off the ferry in their cars. Of course, if you are a pedestrian, you walk off, not in a car.' But to listen to the modern "expert" you'd think this default change was more important than God's grace itself.

101 · Jan 10, 2015

PhillipLaSpino said:
101, nice post if you were writing a novel, but incorrect if you're speaking of the Scriptures. You are aware that only Paul speaks of the Rapture. We cant go to Isaiah, Exodus or Daniel and teach the Rapture; neither will you find it in the four gospels or the book of Revelation. Only Paul who is the apostle of the Gentiles has been given this mystery 1 Cor.15:51, by God (the Father) to reveal to us (the saved).Now, if you would like, I will discuss this with you one point at a time and only if you have an open mind and approach the subject honestly. If not, I dont want to waste your time of mine.Phil LaSpino

Well, if it is Paul who has given us the Mystery of the Rapture, then you will not doubt be able to teach me your doctrine on the Rapture by referring back to Paul's writings alone.

So go ahead and do that. Teach me Paul's doctrine of the Rapture from the Epistles of Paul.

Now, passages may be a bit limited since Paul uses the term a total of one time.

But go ahead. Tell me what I missed.

vinsight4u · Jan 10, 2015

vinsight4u · Jan 10, 2015

PhillipLaSpino · Jan 10, 2015

101 wrote. "Well, if it is Paul who has given us the Mystery of the Rapture, then you will not doubt be able to teach me your doctrine on the Rapture by referring back to Paul's writings alone."

Phil replies, Hmmmm, "my doctrine!" OK, but honestly, its not my doctrine. A good place to begin is by examining the word mystery, and the phrase Paul uses in

1 Thes.4:13, But I would not have you to be ignorant. Meaning he is about to tell them something that is unknown to them. So what is it Paul is about to reveal to them?

It's a mystery, a hidden truth, something into which they had to be instructed before they could have known it. In 52 A.D. Paul writes the letter to the Thessalonians and reveals to them the mystery of the resurrection and the catching away of the church. Again in 56 A.D. in his letter to the Corinthians he repeats this same message of the mystery of resurrection. These things were unknown even by the apostles, so there would be reason for the writers of the 4 gospels to write about this catching away.

In Thes.4:13, Paul makes the statement, That you (believers) sorrow not, even as others (non-believers) which have no hope (of resurrection). Why, because they were ignorant of the gospel, or they flat out rejected the teaching of resurrection.

The following verse qualifies the idea of the catching away of the bride of Christ.

I Thessalonians 4:14, "For if we (bride of Christ) believe that Jesus died and rose again, (this is Pauls Gospel message of salvation found in I Cor. 15:1-4) even so them also which sleep in Jesus (have died) will God (the Father) bring with him (his Son Jesus)."

The verb bring is used in the same sense of bringing, or leading, to bring with one, so in 1 Thes.4:14, "God will bring with him (Jesus)" into heaven, collectively with 1 Thes.4:17, "Caught up together."

Caught up together where? "In the clouds, to meet he Lord (Jesus) in the air."

If we examine the word cloud, it does not mean the literal clouds as those we see daily. It will be a supernatural appearances as the pillar of cloud in the desert. In connection with Christ, as with a voice from heaven, or at Christ's transfiguration, Matt.17:5, "A bright cloud overshadowed them." Mark 9:7. Luke 9:34. As the clouds receiving him at Christ's ascension: Also as surrounding ascending saints or angels, 1 Thes.4:17, the saints shall, "Be caught up together with them in the clouds." Rev.10:1, "I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud."

Well anyway you get the idea. Any questions on the above?

Phil

BABerean2 · Jan 10, 2015

PhillipLaSpino said:
101 wrote. "Well, if it is Paul who has given us the Mystery of the Rapture, then you will not doubt be able to teach me your doctrine on the Rapture by referring back to Paul's writings alone."

Phil replies, Hmmmm, "my doctrine!" OK, but honestly, its not my doctrine. A good place to begin is by examining the word mystery, and the phrase Paul uses in

1 Thes.4:13, But I would not have you to be ignorant. Meaning he is about to tell them something that is unknown to them. So what is it Paul is about to reveal to them?

It's a mystery, a hidden truth, something into which they had to be instructed before they could have known it. In 52 A.D. Paul writes the letter to the Thessalonians and reveals to them the mystery of the resurrection and the catching away of the church. Again in 56 A.D. in his letter to the Corinthians he repeats this same message of the mystery of resurrection. These things were unknown even by the apostles, so there would be reason for the writers of the 4 gospels to write about this catching away.

In Thes.4:13, Paul makes the statement, That you (believers) sorrow not, even as others (non-believers) which have no hope (of resurrection). Why, because they were ignorant of the gospel, or they flat out rejected the teaching of resurrection.

The following verse qualifies the idea of the catching away of the bride of Christ.

I Thessalonians 4:14, "For if we (bride of Christ) believe that Jesus died and rose again, (this is Pauls Gospel message of salvation found in I Cor. 15:1-4) even so them also which sleep in Jesus (have died) will God (the Father) bring with him (his Son Jesus)."

The verb bring is used in the same sense of bringing, or leading, to bring with one, so in 1 Thes.4:14, "God will bring with him (Jesus)" into heaven, collectively with 1 Thes.4:17, "Caught up together."

Caught up together where? "In the clouds, to meet he Lord (Jesus) in the air."

If we examine the word cloud, it does not mean the literal clouds as those we see daily. It will be a supernatural appearances as the pillar of cloud in the desert. In connection with Christ, as with a voice from heaven, or at Christ's transfiguration, Matt.17:5, "A bright cloud overshadowed them." Mark 9:7. Luke 9:34. As the clouds receiving him at Christ's ascension: Also as surrounding ascending saints or angels, 1 Thes.4:17, the saints shall, "Be caught up together with them in the clouds." Rev.10:1, "I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud."

Well anyway you get the idea. Any questions on the above?

Phil

Many forget to mention one important word in this section of scripture.

It is the word "descend".

What does the word "descend" mean to you?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Commentary from the 1599 Geneva Bible

1 Thessalonians 4:14
(12) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in (d) Jesus will God (e) bring with him.

(12) A reason for the confirmation, for seeing that the head is risen, the members also will rise, and that by the power of God.

(d) The dead in Christ, who continue in faith by which they are ingrafted into Christ, even to the last breath.

(e) Will call their bodies out of their graves, and join their souls to them again.

When the 1599 Geneva Bible was published it was understood that the rapture occurred as the first part of Christ's Second Coming.

.

PhillipLaSpino · Jan 10, 2015

To descend, those who come down from heaven, as in God affording aid to the oppressed, Acts 7:34, "I am come down to deliver them," quoted from Ex.3:8, where Septuagint for Hebrew, "Come down." Of the Son of Man, sequel, "Out: John 6:38-42, "How is then that He (Jesus) saith, I came down from heaven?" Sequal, because, or for, 1 Thes.4:16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven."

Phil

PhillipLaSpino · Jan 10, 2015

When the 1599 Geneva Bible was published it was understood that the rapture occurred as the first part of Christ's Second Coming.

When the Geneva Bible was published they had no idea the Jews would ever be delivered back into their Land (1948.) This is why the Catholic Church claimed to be spiritual Israel.

Phil

Interplanner · Jan 10, 2015

They weren't Phil. There is no prophetic reason for it to happen. It just did since they were weary of trouble in Europe and believed it necessary for their heritage. The external part of Judaism could say that, but not Christians with Christ.

The rapture is not meant to compete with the 2nd coming in judgement, which is not meant to compete with the Gospel. I hope I have made the proportions clear.

PhillipLaSpino · Jan 10, 2015

Baberean it just dawned on me why you brought up the word descend. I think you'te trying to say the word descend implies that Jesus came down to the earth. No!. Scriptures speak of three heavens. Jesus was in the third heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father.

For the church he will come to the 1st or 2ed heaven (descend) to gather his Bride, and than we will return to the 3ed heaven with him and go before the Father.

He will NOT return to the earth until the Father has made his (Jesus) enemies his footstool.

Phil

101 · Jan 10, 2015

This is what's supposed to convince me that Nicolae Carpathia (the Antichrist) is going to try to get Buck Williams to be his right hand man while he reigns over the apostates in the 3rd Temple under the one world government?

Interplanner · Jan 10, 2015

The joining the bride is in the new creation. It has nothing to do with multiple heavens.

Danoh · Jan 10, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Many forget to mention one important word in this section of scripture.

It is the word "descend".

What does the word "descend" mean to you?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Commentary from the 1599 Geneva Bible

1 Thessalonians 4:14
(12) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in (d) Jesus will God (e) bring with him.

(12) A reason for the confirmation, for seeing that the head is risen, the members also will rise, and that by the power of God.

(d) The dead in Christ, who continue in faith by which they are ingrafted into Christ, even to the last breath.

(e) Will call their bodies out of their graves, and join their souls to them again.

When the 1599 Geneva Bible was published it was understood that the rapture occurred as the first part of Christ's Second Coming.

.

1 - Article [d] there, appears to be asserting a works salvation.

2 - Reminds me of a friend of mine who, in one breath asserts a Pre-Trib Rapture [not that the above does, or does not] and then in the next breath asserts his belief that he that endures unto the end shall be saved.

Is point one how you see that BAB2. That would be consistent with the Post- Trib-Rapture view, which, if, I understand correctly, you hold to?

BABerean2 · Jan 10, 2015

PhillipLaSpino said:
Baberean it just dawned on me why you brought up the word descend. I think you'te trying to say the word descend implies that Jesus came down to the earth. No!. Scriptures speak of three heavens. Jesus was in the third heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father.

For the church he will come to the 1st or 2ed heaven (descend) to gather his Bride, and than we will return to the 3ed heaven with him and go before the Father.

He will NOT return to the earth until the Father has made his (Jesus) enemies his footstool.

Phil

Your claim that Christ will take the Church to heaven is not to be found in the famous rapture passage of 1st Thess. chapter 4. You are adding to the text in order to produce the pretrib doctrine.

It does not agree with the Apostle Paul in 1st Corinthians chapter 15.

You will not find a pretrib rapture in the order of the resurrection given here by Paul.

Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

This agrees with the words of Christ in John chapter 5.

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There will be one simultaneous resurrection of the just and unjust at His Second Coming.

He will return visibly just as He left in the book of Acts.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

.

101 · Jan 10, 2015

Nicolae says you need to stop meddling with his destiny.

1 Thess. 4:17 - The sole verse on the rapture in the entire Bible

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