Yeshua’s Resurrection On 7th Day or 1st Day ?

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AbbaLove

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pat34lee said:
Both. The dawning, or beginning of the first day was in the evening on Saturday.
Click to expand...

Your reckoning is along the same reckoning that Paul previously posted. He also expressed the belief that Yeshua arose midway through the 1st day of the week at the dawning twilight, while there was still some lingering darkness (John 20:1) before sunrise.
Should mention that it appears Paul has since removed the following post. Perhaps, he was expressing an opinion held my some, but possibly not his own opinion.

Originally Posted by pshun2404
When the end of the Sabbath came and it got dark (which was during the evening time of the 1st day of the week) before dawn (which is the morning portion of the day...the dawn starts the 2nd half) that is when they went to the tomb.

Paul
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Perhaps, Paul wasn’t comfortable expressing this opinion in this MJ forum when many believe in a 7th day Sabbath Resurrection. Even though scripture makes it pretty clear that Yeshua arose sometime into the first 12 hrs of the 1st day of the week. Most likely toward the end of the 11th hour as the dawning twilight was replacing the darkness of night when Mary arrived at the empty tomb.

Some reckon the 1st day as a “full (24 hr) day” even if only 1 hr to 3 hrs remained of the Jewish Day.
Some reckon the 3rd day as a “full (24 hr) day” if only 00:30 minutes (or 11:30 hours) had transpired depending on one’s reckoning when a day begins (western or Jewish).

We all know (except each of us ;)) that there’s only ONE WAY to reckon “3 days” and that’s OUR WAY, the CHURCH’S WAY, BOTH or the Highway.

Sooooo, as reasonable MJs (and [tolerant] Christians) WHY, is it not then acceptable to reckon only 11:30 to 11:50 hours as a “0” “nada” “zilch” “zero” “non” day being less than ½ day. If it were 12:10 to 12:30 hours, then scientific notation tells us that we would then count it as a full day according to Christendom’s pre-established principle/manner for tolerance:)doh:) when reckoning a day.

(לכו תדע (דמות​

 
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pshun2404

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ABBA....I never removed it....also you just said "Even though scripture makes it pretty clear that Yeshua arose sometime into the first 12 hrs of the 1st day of the week." I would say this is exactly what Pat and I have been saying...."sometime into the first 12 hrs of the 1st day" does not constitute "the 7th day Sabbath"....they are "clearly" not the same.
 
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AbbaLove

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pshun2404 said:
ABBA....I never removed it....also you just said "Even though scripture makes it pretty clear that Yeshua arose sometime into the first 12 hrs of the 1st day of the week." I would say this is exactly what Pat and I have been saying...."sometime into the first 12 hrs of the 1st day" does not constitute "the 7th day Sabbath"....they are "clearly" not the same.
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I've tried to find that post twice and could not find. I did notice that there was one of your posts that you deleted and thought it was that post, that was helpful in clearing up some of the confusion. YES, You, Pat and I agree that interpretation removes what had appeared to be some contradiction of scriptures.

Is it safe to say that we three agree on what we consider the correct / reasonable / sensible for interpretating/reckoning of several scripture verses?

Is it safe to say this may be disconcerting to some MJs that believe that Yeshua arose sometime toward the "end of"~"late on" the 7th Day Sabbath (RNN). If most of Christendom believes in a Good Friday and/or Maundy Thursday, What's that to those that count themselves among the "we". If all of Messianic Judaism believes that Yeshua arose "late on" "end of" or some other reckoning ~ What's that to those among the We

Just wanted to get this resolved well ahead of the 1st of Nisan. Hoping "we all" can celebrate the observance as "we all" see as most honoring to our Heavenly Father. The FACT that Yeshua/Jesus arose as Lord, Savior, Deliverer, the Son of God, God the Son, the Living Word ... is REALLY why we are all brethren (guys/gals).

Galatians 3:28 CJB
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor freeman, neither male nor female; for in union with the Messiah Yeshua, you are all one.

WE IS ALL ONE IN HIM​
 
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mercy1061

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AbbaLove said:
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That’s why we need to reckon “three days and three nights” (Matt. 12:40)

14th - 4th day of the week (Tue sunset ~ Wed sunset) 3 hrs daylight after death on cross.
15th - 5th day of the week (Wed sunset ~ Thur sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur sunset ~ Fri sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri sunset -|- Sat sunset) 12 hrs darkness

That’s why we need to reckon “three days and three nights” (Matt. 12:40)

14th - 4th day of the week (Tue sunset ~ Wed sunset) 3 hrs daylight after death on cross.
15th - 5th day of the week (Wed sunset ~ Thur sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur sunset ~ Fri sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri sunset -|- Sat sunset) 12 hrs darkness

That’s why we need to reckon “three days and three nights” (Matt. 12:40)

14th - 4th day of the week (Tue sunset ~ Wed sunset) 3 hrs daylight after death on cross.
15th - 5th day of the week (Wed sunset ~ Thur sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur sunset ~ Fri sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri sunset -|- Sat sunset) 12 hrs darkness

Matthew 12:40 CJB
For just as Yonah was “three days and three nights” in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.

Matt 28:1 (Paul’s interpretation) is saying that Mary arrived at the tomb 12 hrs (midway) into the 1st day of the week. This is Paul’s and now (apparently) Pat’s reckoning which they believe should be interpreted as Yeshua’s resurrection occurring midway (12 hours) into the 1st day of the week, the 18th of Nisan (Sunday morning). So, Paul and now Pat possibly agree that the following reckoning of “three days and three nights” (Matt 12:40) with resurrection middle of 1st day of the week is more realistic (see counting of days at bottom).



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Paul and now Pat see the following “3 days and 3 nights” (Matt 12:40) as a real possibility.

15th - 5th day of the week (Wed sunset ~ Thur sunset) 3 hrs daylight after death on cross.
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur sunset ~ Fri sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri sunset ~ Sat sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
18th - 1st day of the week (Sat sunset -|- Sun sunset) 12 hrs darkness, arose midday.

Do you believe Yeshua’s resurrection more likely occurred on the 7th day Sabbath (Saturday) according to Vis’ reckoning OR 12 hrs into the 1st day of the week (Sunday) according to Paul’s reckoning. Who’s reckoning do you believe is more realistic, Vis’ or Paul’s ?
Click to expand...

No one knows exactly when Yeshua rose, on the first day we only know that he had already risen on the third day. Can we count three days and three nights within 36 hours?
 
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AbbaLove

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pshun2404 said:
So once again if we are to take this passage literally then Jesus is a liar because He said He would rise ON THE THIRD DAY....Selah...

Paul
Click to expand...

We agree that Yeshua only speaks the Truth​

Mark 16:1 KJB
And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint Him.

"Three Days" ~ "Three Days and Three Nights"​

Yeshua was raised up “late on” “at the end" of the Sabbath. This occurred just after the earthquake when the stone was rolled away. Those guarding the tomb became as dead men and when revived fled the scene. So, literally the tomb had been vacated before Mary and the other women arrived about 11 hrs into the 1st day of the week (before sunrise) while it was still dark.

Yeshua was placed in the tomb at early dusk late on the 14th just before the first star(s) were sighted announcing the arrival of the 15th. Yeshua arose during the ereb (at the end of) the 7th day Sabbath and the beginning of the 1st Day of the week exactly three days and three nights after being placed in the tomb. :)

15th - 5th day of the week (Wed ereb ~ ereb Thur) 12 hrs dark & 12 hrs light
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur ereb ~ ereb Fri) 12 hrs dark & 12 hrs light
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri ereb ~ ereb Sat ! ) 12 hrs dark & 12 hrs light
18th - 1st day of the week ( ! Sat ereb ~ ereb Sun) Mary arrived before sunrise.

This is plausible as satisfying “three 24 hr days” (72 hrs). So, back to where we started with Yeshua arising in the Twilight Zone of ereb at the end of the 7th day and the start of the 1st day of the week.

This removes the need for “inclusive reckoning” or doubting scriptures. A Sabbath resurrection has Yeshua arising at the end of the 7th day as the ereb was just minutes before the first star(s) were sighted announcing the start of the 1st Day of the week. :)

However, there may be some that prefer "after three days" which satisfies their 1st Day Resurrection reckoning. :)

 
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mercy1061

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[/SIZE][/FONT]
If we’re hearing you correctly it sounds like you definitely believe the first 12 hours of the counting of “after 3 days” should begin with the 12 evening hours and NOT the counting/reckoning of any daylight hours after Yeshua died on the cross or minutes before Yeshua was placed in the tomb before sunset. FAIR enough! :)
Click to expand...


No! You can start counting possibly the beginning of Sabbath; friday evening or possibly around 3 pm friday. The Sabbath is a day of rest, Yeshua rested in his grave. Do you know who rolled the stone away when Lazarus came out of the tomb?

Mark 8:31 CJB
He began teaching them that the Son of Man had to endure much suffering and be rejected by the elders, the head cohanim and the Torah-teachers; and that He had to be put to death; but that after three days, He had to rise again.

Yeshua arose sometime after the 6th day implying He arose sometime in the 17th of Nisan on Shabbat. Possibly, midway, 12 hrs into the 17th at the twilight of dawn, while there was still some darkness before sunrise. (John 20:1).

The following counting of “after three days” (on Shabbat) appears to be an accurate reckoning of days that is more representative of Visionary's reckoning of "after 3 days" as well as many other MJs and myself :) Consider myself a Christian Messianic and a Messianic Christian ~ One New Man :)

14th - 4th day of the week (Tue sunset ~ Wed sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
15th - 5th day of the week (Wed sunset ~ Thur sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur sunset ~ Fri sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri sunset -|- Sat sunset) 12 hrs midway into Shabbat (after 3 days).

Yeshua arose before the dawning of sunrise about midway into the the 7th day Sabbath. Yeshua said, “after three days” thus, the lingering darkness "still dark" before sunrise an accurate/possible reckoning (John 20:1).

The following post by Paul suggests that the counting of 3 days begins after Yeshua was placed in the tomb (14 Nisan) at the beginning of the 15th of Nisan.
Click to expand...
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In another post Paul again expresses his belief that Yeshua arose midway through the 1st day of the week at the dawning twilight, while there was still some darkness (John 20:1) before sunrise.
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Paul's (and possibly Pat's) reckoning of "after three days" is with Yeshua's resurrection occurring on the 1st day of the week would basically look like this in light of his interpretation of Matt 28:1 and John 20:1.

15th - 5th day of the week (Wed sunset ~ Thur sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur sunset ~ Fri sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri sunset ~ Sat sunset) 12 hrs darkness & 12 hrs daylight
18th - 1st day of the week (Sat sunset -|- Sun sunset) 12 hrs midway into 1st day of the week (after 3 days).

Click to expand...

Yeshua had already risen on the first day of the week, the stone already rolled away. Who rolled the stone away? When was the stone rolled away? Immediately after the stone was rolled away, and Yeshua called Lazarus name, Lazarus came out of the tomb.

Why is it dark about noon until 3?

44 It was now about noon, and darkness covered the whole Land until three o’clock in the afternoon; 45 the sun did not shine.

Sunset in Israel happens between 4-5 pm, in the summer at later times. There may have been some daylight before he was buried in the tomb, which gave time for preparation.
 
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AbbaLove

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mercy1061 said:
You can start counting possibly the beginning of Sabbath; friday evening or possibly around 3 pm friday. The Sabbath is a day of rest, Yeshua rested in his grave.
Click to expand...

Many Christians also believe Friday, the 6th day of the week, was when Jesus was crucified and placed in the tomb just before the beginning of Shabbat on the 7th day of the week as you've indicated and as shown on this Hebrew Calendar for the year 33 AD/CE

also this Jewish Chabad Calendar for 0033 indicating Passover occurred on the 6th day
Many Messianic Jews and Gentiles and some Christians believe that Yeshua/Jesus was crucified on the 4th day of the week and placed in the tomb just before the beginning of the 5th day as shown on this Hebrew calendar for the year 34 AD/CE.

Shown below is the reckoning for the Jewish calendar year (0030) that Visionary posted indicating that the 14th of Nisan (Passover) occurred on the 4th day of the week with the beginning of the counting of 3 days beginning on the 15th of Nisan, the 5th day of the week.
visionary said:
Check this out... 30 AD. Jewish Calendar 0030 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar
Click to expand...

Your counting of days appears to be the same [Good Friday] reckoning as that of Yeshua HaDerekh :)
Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Friday BEFORE sunset is day 1
Saturday Sabbath AFTER sunset day 2
Sunday AFTER Sabbath sunset day 3

"Miktzat HaYom Kekhulo"...the halachic "part of a day is considered a whole"

"Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered Him, 'Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?
"And He said to them, 'What things?'
"And they said to Him,
'Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him....it is NOW THE THIRD DAY SINCE THIS HAPPENED....'" (Luke 24:18-21)

It was on the 1st day of the week...Sunday
Sunday = 3rd day
Saturday = 2nd day
Friday - 1st day
Click to expand...


 
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AbbaLove

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For some unknown reason the following insert ~ (torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y34M1) ~ in the above post may actually show the month of Nisan in 33 CE instead of 34 CE. Anyway, you can go to TorahCalendar website to get the right year to see the difference for Passover in 33 CE (Nisan 14 on 6th day) as compared to 34 CE (Nisan 14 on 4th day).


What is confusing is that on the following Jewish Chabad calendar for 0034 shows the 14th of Nisan occurring on the 2nd day of the week.


 
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aniello

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AbbaLove said:

For some unknown reason the following insert ~ (torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y34M1) ~ in the above post may actually show the month of Nisan in 33 CE instead of 34 CE. Anyway, you can go to TorahCalendar website to get the right year to see the difference for Passover in 33 CE (Nisan 14 on 6th day) as compared to 34 CE (Nisan 14 on 4th day).


What is confusing is that on the following Jewish Chabad calendar for 0034 shows the 14th of Nisan occurring on the 2nd day of the week.
Click to expand...

Those crazy Russians.
Chabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vodka was very strong back then.
 
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AbbaLove said:

For some unknown reason the following insert ~ (torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y34M1) ~ in the above post may actually show the month of Nisan in 33 CE instead of 34 CE. Anyway, you can go to TorahCalendar website to get the right year to see the difference for Passover in 33 CE (Nisan 14 on 6th day) as compared to 34 CE (Nisan 14 on 4th day).


What is confusing is that on the following Jewish Chabad calendar for 0034 shows the 14th of Nisan occurring on the 2nd day of the week.
Click to expand...

Can we count three days and three nights within 36 hours? Shall I prove how three days and three nights are counted within 36 hours?
 
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AbbaLove

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mercy1061 said:
Can we count three days and three nights within 36 hours? Shall I prove how three days and three nights are counted within 36 hours?
Click to expand...

Do you not agree with Yeshua HaDerekh's reply posted the 1st of this month?
Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Friday BEFORE sunset is day 1
Saturday Sabbath AFTER sunset day 2
Sunday AFTER Sabbath sunset day 3

"Miktzat HaYom Kekhulo"...the halachic "part of a day is considered a whole"

"Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered Him, 'Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?
"And He said to them, 'What things?'
"And they said to Him,
'Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him....it is NOW THE THIRD DAY SINCE THIS HAPPENED....'" (Luke 24:18-21)

It was on the 1st day of the week...Sunday
Sunday = 3rd day
Saturday = 2nd day
Friday - 1st day
Click to expand...

Do you disagree with what Paul has previously explained as "inclusive reckoning" (p 7 #67) that could be interpreted as 36 hours (00:30 min + 24:00 hrs + 11:30 hrs = 36 hours). Is your "inclusive reckoning" closer to 01:00 hr + 24:00 hrs + 11:00 hrs = 36 hours or closer to 00:45 min + 24:00 hrs + 11:15 hrs = 36 hours ? These examples of "inclusive reckoning" account for what the Catholic Church and Christendom accept as "three days."

You have expressed what seems to be your belief that Yeshua's reference to "three days" is not three 24 hr days, but rather three 12 hr days. Do you discount Yeshua's reference to "three nights" as implying His reference of "three days" should not be taken to mean three 24 hr days? If so, WHY?

Matthew 12:40 CJB
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.
Matthew 12:40 KJV
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 
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visionary

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AbbaLove said:
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Do you not agree with Yeshua HaDerekh's reply posted the 1st of this month?[/SIZE][/FONT]
Do you disagree with what Paul has previously explained as "inclusive reckoning" (p 7 #67) that could be interpreted as 36 hours (00:30 min + 24:00 hrs + 11:30 hrs = 36 hours). Is your "inclusive reckoning" closer to 01:00 hr + 24:00 hrs + 11:00 hrs = 36 hours or closer to 00:45 min + 24:00 hrs + 11:15 hrs = 36 hours ? These examples of "inclusive reckoning" account for what the Catholic Church and Christendom accept as "three days."

You have expressed what seems to be your belief that Yeshua's reference to "three days" is not three 24 hr days, but rather three 12 hr days. Do you discount Yeshua's reference to "three nights" as implying His reference of "three days" should not be taken to mean three 24 hr days? If so, WHY?

Matthew 12:40 CJB
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.
Matthew 12:40 KJV
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Click to expand...
Since I already presented my view, I am going to leave this thread.
 
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AbbaLove

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visionary said:
Since I already presented my view, I am going to leave this thread.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head​
Each believes their reckoning is: Acceptable, Plausible and Right ~ whether occurring on the 7th day or the 1st day.
So Be It!

Is it really all that important whether the counting of three "days" was three full 12 hr days or three complete 24 hr days (72 hrs) or "after 3 days". Some MJs are adamant that Yeshua arose on the 7th day of the week; while Christians are adamant that Jesus arose on the 1st day of the week.
So Be It!

There is also a 3rd choice that Yeshua satisfies both of the above having arose betwixt and between the end of the 7th day and the start of the 1st day.

Yeshua was raised up “late on” “at the end" of the Sabbath. Those guarding the tomb became as dead men and when revived fled the scene. So, literally the tomb had been vacated before Mary and the other women arrived about 11 hrs into the 1st day of the week (before sunrise) while it was still dark.

Yeshua was placed in the tomb at early dusk late on the 14th just before the first star(s) were sighted announcing the arrival of the 15th. Yeshua arose during the 'ereb' of the 7th day Sabbath and the beginning of the 1st Day three days and three nights after being placed in the tomb.

15th - 5th day of the week (Wed ereb - Thur pre-ereb) 12 hrs dark & 12 hrs light
16th - 6th day of the week (Thur ereb - Fri pre-ereb) 12 hrs dark & 12 hrs light
17th - 7th day of the week (Fri ereb - !Sat pre-ereb) 12 hrs dark & 12 hrs light
18th - 1st day of the week ( !Sat ereb - Sun pre-ereb) Mary arrived before sunrise.

This is plausible as satisfying “three 24 hr days” (72 hrs). So, back to where we started with Yeshua arising in the Twilight Zone of ereb at the end of the 7th day and the start of the 1st day of the week. The Hebrew word "ereb (עֶרֶב)" meaning ~ evening, twilight, dusk that completes the end of one day from the start of the next day :)

I too am leaving this thread as much has been accomplished and little has been resolved. For those that want to carry on it's all yours. :) :wave:

 
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visionary said:
Since I already presented my view, I am going to leave this thread.
Click to expand...

I only presented the initial surface text physical view from the Gospel accounts.
However the six yamim-hours of Creation in Golgotha cannot be explained here. :D
 
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it is common knowledge that the 6 days of genesis are 6000 literal years. the hebrew calendar is very accurate. right now (gregorian 2015) we are at year 5775. jesus died and was raised on the 3rd day. that means after roughly 2000 years in the grave, he will rise again and rule his earthly kingdom for 1000 years. christianity as a bigger religion (at first considered a cult) started roughly 200 or 300 yrs after christ (emperor constantine etc). so he was in the grave for 2 days (2000 years) before his resurrection in glory.
 
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Hi guys,

I have a question...when did the priests make that first cut of the harvest on the sabbath of this barley harvest? Wasn't there some sort of prayer or ceremony associated with this action by the priests?

Honest Im just curious :)
 
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Tishri1 said:
Hi guys,

I have a question...when did the priests make that first cut of the harvest on the Sabbath of this barley harvest? Wasn't there some sort of prayer or ceremony associated with this action by the priests?

Honest I'm just curious :)
Click to expand...
Saturday night was when I understood that they went out to cut the barley that they had the day before chosen. Yom HaBikkurim (Day of the First Fruits) starts that evening. As the sun was setting in the western sky, at the end of the weekly Shabbat, the priests in the field of barley. Since it was near the time of the full moon, unless there were clouds, they were able to gather with great ceremony and celebration, including a parade back to the temple.
 
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