Would you follow a person who is regarded as a modern day prophet?

ChristsSoldier115 said:

pretty much. This is why I am heavily skeptical of any so-called prophets.

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I agree. Cults require some basis for the unorthodox ideas they teach in opposition to ordinary Christianity. For that, they need some apparently unimpeachable explanation for why they are correct in introducing new doctrines. That their spokesman is a prophet is the most obvious way to do that, although a real prophet would reveal but never countermand what has already been revealed by God.

Usually, these "prophets" literally do that--teach that what we'd been believing is wrong and "here's the replacement doctrine."

Albion said:

I agree. Cults require some basis for the unorthodox ideas they teach in opposition to ordinary Christianity. For that, they need some apparently unimpeachable explanation for why they are correct in introducing new doctrines. That their spokesman is a prophet is the most obvious way to do that, although a real prophet would reveal but never countermand what has already been revealed by God.

Usually, these "prophets" literally do that--teach that what we'd been believing is wrong and "here's the replacement doctrine."

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I do believe there are real legit prophets, but I also think most, if not all, are not self-aware of it. Most Christians don't sit there and try to gauge their spiritual gifts.. they just use them as an afterthought, as the service to Christ is of a higher priority than their own self glory often associated with the spiritual gifts heavy emphasis crowd.

Biblicist2 said:

No, the forum owners have wisely decided that we are not permitted to post any personal prophecies on the forum – which is the right way to go about things. From my perspective, I feel that prophets should remain primarily within their local congregation so that their prophecies can be judged by the other members of the congregation.

As for the prophecies that I have received over the years, none have been all that spectacular where they have mainly come from congregational members and on one or two occasions the prophecy has come from the platform during a Sunday meeting.

As for prophetic words in general, they come from many thousands of local congregational prophets from within probably every nation; but they are primarily intended for folk within their local congregation. When you read where some high-flying celebrity has provided a prophecy, on most occasions they can be ignored and generally I would advise anyone to simply ignore a prophetic word that is found in a populist Christian website or magazine.

As for the New Apostolic Renewal, the NARzies can be the same as the Apostolic movement as the two terms tend to be carelessly thrown around. When it comes to those Pentecostal denominations who say that they are Apostolic, this tends to indicate that they see themselves as coming from the early Pentecostal movement of over a century ago; so even though they are different, a lot of people will often incorrectly use the shorthand of the apostolic movement to refer to the NARzies.

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I know that you are aware but for others who are not, the discussion (fwiw) has been moved to
http://www.christianforums.com/t7859694/
What I have discovered primarily is that those who have given it a bad name have done so outside of NAR outlines. (Much like many a priest/pastor has done before)

I'd have to hear the 'new revelation' to be sure. But not likely, based on the nonsense 'new revelations' I've heard in the past.

Anyone who self-styles themselves a prophet is the sort of person that I'm going to avoid.

Anyone who proclaims anything that they claim God told them or which God revealed to them--even if they claim that they were reading the Bible and the Holy Spirit "made it known" or some such--is simply not a person that I will bother to listen to.

God has spoken, His name is Jesus. This Jesus sent out His apostles, and they taught, and they established churches, and they wrote down and preserved that which was given them. A faithful preacher of the Gospel is one who faithfully preaches the Gospel, holding fast to that which has been received from the first.

There's no room for modern day seers, prophets, soothsayers, and miracle men. They have no place in the Church of Jesus Christ. <staff edit>

-CryptoLutheran

I would never follow someone for claiming to be a prophet or for being called a prophet, and even if he or she is a prophet, I'm still not sure I would follow. Is that what prophets do? Ask people to follow them? I'm not so sure.

I'm also not sure why I'd be a part of a faith that doesn't believe in prophets. Seems rather self-contradictory and self-defeating if you ask me, especially since Christ was incensed over what the "church" had done to them.

ChristsSoldier115 said:

I do believe there are real legit prophets, but I also think most, if not all, are not self-aware of it. Most Christians don't sit there and try to gauge their spiritual gifts.. they just use them as an afterthought, as the service to Christ is of a higher priority than their own self glory often associated with the spiritual gifts heavy emphasis crowd.

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Perhaps my answer to the OP would depend on how one defines a "prophet".

Anyone who calls themselves a prophet ... I am extremely skeptical of.

I think there are more likely to be people who prophesy ... Again depending on the definition of the word.

I think some people can develop a level of discernment, spiritual grace, wisdom, sensitivity to the Holy Spirit, and/or ???

These are gifts from God, whether partly innate, partly given by grace, developed from time spent in His Presence, and/or ???

Soooo ...... In that sense, I'm not trying to explain it fully, but I certainly think there are people who speak out of spiritual wisdom. And sometimes their insight has great depth. But when that happens, as ChristsSoldier said, they are very unlikely to see themselves as "prophets" or as people who are "prophesying". They are using their God-given gifts and talents to edify the Body, just as they should be doing.

Those who call attention to themselves, who self-style titles, and so on are not displaying the humility that seems a prerequisite for the revelations they claim to have. I think of it this way - a loving parent won't give a six-year-old a butcher knife to play with. And great revelation given to one who lacks humility is likely to puff them up with even more pride, which God knows is toxic. After all, Paul was given a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble for the sake of the revelation God had given him.

Even supernatural knowledge is not proof of revelation from God. Some knowing comes from less "safe" sources.

I would trust humility over showy revelation. But regardless, I would not "follow" anyone who led anywhere other than what has already been given. Though I would certainly consider wise counsel from one whom I trust.

~Cassia~ said:

I know that you are aware but for others who are not, the discussion (fwiw) has been moved to
http://www.christianforums.com/t7859694/
What I have discovered primarily is that those who have given it a bad name have done so outside of NAR outlines. (Much like many a priest/pastor has done before)

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Yes, I've made a few comments already on the Pentecostal/charismatic forum as it is my home base so to speak.

ViaCrucis said:

Anyone who self-styles themselves a prophet is the sort of person that I'm going to avoid.

Anyone who proclaims anything that they claim God told them or which God revealed to them--even if they claim that they were reading the Bible and the Holy Spirit "made it known" or some such--is simply not a person that I will bother to listen to.

God has spoken, His name is Jesus. This Jesus sent out His apostles, and they taught, and they established churches, and they wrote down and preserved that which was given them. A faithful preacher of the Gospel is one who faithfully preaches the Gospel, holding fast to that which has been received from the first.

There's no room for modern day seers, prophets, soothsayers, and miracle men. They have no place in the Church of Jesus Christ, and are deceivers and frauds the lot of them.

-CryptoLutheran

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So when the Father responds to someone's heartfelt prayer request, does this mean that you would ignore anyone who gets a reply from the Father - after-all, an answer to prayer is essentially extra-Biblical, though certainly not authoritative for anyone but the person that the Father speaks to in prayer.

MoreCoffee said:

There are people who are respected as good teachers and there are people who helped found a denomination and there are a few people who are regarded both as good teachers and who helped found a denomination but would you follow a person who is regarded as a modern day prophet when they found a new denomination?

Biblical and other reasons would be interesting to discuss since most christians would have a view on the above question and would very likely base their answer on the bible and on beliefs drawn from the bible.

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Probably not. Or...certainly not because he/she was "regarded as a prophet".

Maybe if someone got killed in my place I might consider it.

Albion said:

I'm not sure that the Jehovah's Witnesses operate on that basis, but rather on the claim that they (and every one of them) has understood scripture better than anyone else. And I don't think that Emanuel Swedenborg held himself out as a prophet, although I could be mistaken.

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Emanuel Swedenborg did not claim to be a prophet, although he did claim some very supernatural powers. Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After thinking about this some, I think the problem is not prophets. It's not even false prophets, since that is a problem that has been around for a very long time as is recorded in scripture. Rather, I think the problem is that the modern institution has lost its prophets, and has lost its bearings on the subject. If the "church" thinks that prophets are just wackadoodle nutcases that like to get spiritual and be respected, then that church either doesn't know what a prophet is, or is part of some other faith that has divorced from the prophetic traditions of the ancient Church.

Biblicist2 said:

Yes, I've made a few comments already on the Pentecostal/charismatic forum as it is my home base so to speak.

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The landscape has changed much since I was there.

Nanopants said:

After thinking about this some, I think the problem is not prophets. It's not even false prophets, since that is a problem that has been around for a very long time as is recorded in scripture. Rather, I think the problem is that the modern institution has lost its prophets, and has lost its bearings on the subject. If the "church" thinks that prophets are just wackadoodle nutcases that like to get spiritual and be respected, then that church either doesn't know what a prophet is, or is part of some other faith that has divorced from the prophetic traditions of the ancient Church.

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I agree. Full-on cynicism is not from God.

I believe that we should pray for discernment and draw near to the Father for direction.

Biblicist2 said:

So when the Father responds to someone's heartfelt prayer request, does this mean that you would ignore anyone who gets a reply from the Father - after-all, an answer to prayer is essentially extra-Biblical, though certainly not authoritative for anyone but the person that the Father speaks to in prayer.

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If someone tells me they heard God talk to them then, no, I wouldn't believe them. I have no reason to, certainly no biblical reason to.

I'm not suggesting it's impossible obviously, but given what we have in Scripture we can be pretty reasonably certain that God almost never speaks with people "one on one". Every case of God speaking to an individual it is a case of fear and marvel. Except when God speaks mediated, as through a prophet, or--as matters for us as Christians--through Jesus Christ our Lord. Which gets us back to what I said in my previous post.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

If someone tells me they heard God talk to them then, no, I wouldn't believe them. I have no reason to, certainly no biblical reason to.

I'm not suggesting it's impossible obviously, but given what we have in Scripture we can be pretty reasonably certain that God almost never speaks with people "one on one". Every case of God speaking to an individual it is a case of fear and marvel. Except when God speaks mediated, as through a prophet, or--as matters for us as Christians--through Jesus Christ our Lord. Which gets us back to what I said in my previous post.

-CryptoLutheran

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God speaks to His kids constantly.
Jesus died that we might have access to the Father.
He said that His sheep know His voice.
He said that we're to "live by" every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

sunlover1 said:

God speaks to His kids constantly.

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I can find nothing in Scripture which would suggest that God comes to carry on conversations with us.

Jesus died that we might have access to the Father.

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And what is that access? The author of the Hebrews speaks of Christ as the great high priest who is our advocate before the Father.

I'm not the high priest of God who, figuratively speaking, gets to go beyond the veil, into the Holy of Holies before the Ark. That's Christ, not me. I'm the worshiper who comes empty and in humility, pleading God's mercy as I am an unworthy sinner who comes before God only because Christ says, "Come, and I will give you rest."

He said that His sheep know His voice.

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Which, of course, has nothing to do with hearing an actual voice. But everything to do with the familiarity of the sheep with their shepherd; as Christ's flock we recognize Him.

He said that we're to "live by" every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

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And where can that word be found that it might nourish and fill me? "I am the True Vine and you are the branches", "Take and eat, this is My body", "You read the Scriptures believing that in them you have eternal life, it is these which speak of Me." So Christ, where He is found, feeds us, He is the Word of God and He speaks the words of God, and we hear that Word when it is preached, declared, read aloud from the Scriptures and we receive it in and under the bread and wine--namely, the Sacraments.

-CryptoLutheran

MoreCoffee said:

There are people who are respected as good teachers and there are people who helped found a denomination and there are a few people who are regarded both as good teachers and who helped found a denomination but would you follow a person who is regarded as a modern day prophet when they found a new denomination?

Biblical and other reasons would be interesting to discuss since most christians would have a view on the above question and would very likely base their answer on the bible and on beliefs drawn from the bible.

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There are exceptions of course, but biblical prophets aren't normally leaders.