A Good Woman

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I am NOT a chauvinist pig and I love my wife but I really believe that a good number of divorces are due to women not fulfilling their God-given place in life. I'm not saying that all women must do this, some must work and there are other circumstances but I think a great deal of the problems have to do with having two "chiefs". Just saying:

Proverbs

10 A good woman is hard to find, and worth far more than diamonds. 11 Her husband trusts her without reserve, and never has reason to regret it. 12 Never spiteful, she treats him generously all her life long. 13 She shops around for the best yarns and cottons, and enjoys knitting and sewing. 14 She's like a trading ship that sails to faraway places and brings back exotic surprises. 15 She's up before dawn, preparing breakfast for her family and organizing her day. 16 She looks over a field and buys it, then, with money she's put aside, plants a garden. 17 First thing in the morning, she dresses for work, rolls up her sleeves, eager to get started. 18 She senses the worth of her work, is in no hurry to call it quits for the day. 19 She's skilled in the crafts of home and hearth, diligent in homemaking. 20 She's quick to assist anyone in need, reaches out to help the poor. 21 She doesn't worry about her family when it snows; their winter clothes are all mended and ready to wear. 22 She makes her own clothing, and dresses in colorful linens and silks. 23 Her husband is greatly respected when he deliberates with the city fathers. 24 She designs gowns and sells them, brings the sweaters she knits to the dress shops. 25 Her clothes are well-made and elegant, and she always faces tomorrow with a smile. 26 When she speaks she has something worthwhile to say, and she always says it kindly. 27 She keeps an eye on everyone in her household, and keeps them all busy and productive. 28 Her children respect and bless her; her husband joins in with words of praise: 29 "Many women have done wonderful things, but you've outclassed them all!" 30 Charm can mislead and beauty soon fades. The woman to be admired and praised is the woman who lives in the Fear-of-God. 31 Give her everything she deserves! Festoon her life with praises!
 

chapmic

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Speaking from my life experience and I have been around many independent strong and financially secure women. Some of them are single but they are looking for a man that they can trust that wants to lead a family, not someone who thinks they are better than them because they are a man. It's like dancing, we can both enjoy the dance but someone has to lead. It doesn't make one role more important than the other it just means that they are different roles working together to accomplish one goal.
 
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katautumn

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I don't think that's what leads to divorce. I think unrealistic, unmet expectations directly cause divorce. I don't consider myself or my husband "chief" of the marriage. I see God as the "chief" of the marriage and my husband and I are like co-captains both working toward common goals. There are times one of us needs to defer to the other, if we reach an impasse, but neither one of us has ever been the "boss" of the relationship. It works for us.
 
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travnja

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I kind of agree with you in that there can't be two "bosses" but I think the divorce rate is what it is because neither the men nor the women are doing what they should be. Gender roles have been so messed up these days that people are confused and have no idea what's going on or what they should do etc...
 
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Jesusisgood

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I agree that the man is to be the head of the family just like Christ is the head of the church. this does not mean that he is at all better nor weaker than his wife but they are equal with different God ordained roles. Both are very important :) I like to think of the man as the protector and the woman as the nurturer.:)and I am happy with that!
 
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Bobinator

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I am NOT a chauvinist pig and I love my wife but I really believe that a good number of divorces are due to women not fulfilling their God-given place in life. I'm not saying that all women must do this, some must work and there are other circumstances but I think a great deal of the problems have to do with having two "chiefs". Just saying:

Proverbs

10 A good woman is hard to find, and worth far more than diamonds. 11 Her husband trusts her without reserve, and never has reason to regret it. 12 Never spiteful, she treats him generously all her life long. 13 She shops around for the best yarns and cottons, and enjoys knitting and sewing. 14 She's like a trading ship that sails to faraway places and brings back exotic surprises. 15 She's up before dawn, preparing breakfast for her family and organizing her day. 16 She looks over a field and buys it, then, with money she's put aside, plants a garden. 17 First thing in the morning, she dresses for work, rolls up her sleeves, eager to get started. 18 She senses the worth of her work, is in no hurry to call it quits for the day. 19 She's skilled in the crafts of home and hearth, diligent in homemaking. 20 She's quick to assist anyone in need, reaches out to help the poor. 21 She doesn't worry about her family when it snows; their winter clothes are all mended and ready to wear. 22 She makes her own clothing, and dresses in colorful linens and silks. 23 Her husband is greatly respected when he deliberates with the city fathers. 24 She designs gowns and sells them, brings the sweaters she knits to the dress shops. 25 Her clothes are well-made and elegant, and she always faces tomorrow with a smile. 26 When she speaks she has something worthwhile to say, and she always says it kindly. 27 She keeps an eye on everyone in her household, and keeps them all busy and productive. 28 Her children respect and bless her; her husband joins in with words of praise: 29 "Many women have done wonderful things, but you've outclassed them all!" 30 Charm can mislead and beauty soon fades. The woman to be admired and praised is the woman who lives in the Fear-of-God. 31 Give her everything she deserves! Festoon her life with praises!
You have a point. However, the characteristics of God include humility, patience and long suffering. If husbands exercised these more, as painful as they are, many marriages could turn around and not end up in divorce.

Marriage is a tool implemented by God to perfect us. When people refuse change on either side, marriages end. Wives have an amazing ability to press the right buttons and bring out the worse in their husbands. Sometimes, it's not about who did wrong to whom. It's about maintaining your composure and being a man of God, a good husband and a good father no matter what anybody else does or says. In the end, God will justify you.

I've had incredible challenges over the years in my own marriage, but I endured for the sake of the family and for the amazing love I have for my children. I still went to church and followed the Lord, even though I questioned his love at times. Things are a lot better now, even though I didn't do anything different but to be as blameless as I could in terms of not ending the marriage. God came through.

When you stand before the Lord, you will have to answer for what you did and didn't do, not what someone else did or didn't do.

It's real hard, I know. It's a battlefield, and God is the Lord of Hosts. We're soldiers, and we fight on.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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I am NOT a chauvinist pig and I love my wife but I really believe that a good number of divorces are due to women not fulfilling their God-given place in life. I'm not saying that all women must do this, some must work and there are other circumstances but I think a great deal of the problems have to do with having two "chiefs". Just saying:

What is a woman's "God-given" place in life? Kids? Couldn't have any. Married to an abusive creep who, once we were married only worked when he wanted to work. If I didn't work, at my chosen career, we'd have lived in the streets. I paid for everything. Yeah, I bought myself toys, gadgets and cars...but...seeing as how I was the one making the money, putting the roof over his head and the food in his gut...why not.

There's probably a divorce in my near future but tell me what it has to do with me not "fulfilling my God-Given place in life". My God-given place is to be the best woman, engineer, project manager, supervisor I can be. Domestic I'm not. Even if we'd had kids, I'd have not given up my career. Its part of who I am. If God thought all women should stay home and have babies, he wouldn't have made me infertile or provide the way for me to get the education I have.
 
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Please don't be offended. I said very clearly that some women must work and "there are other circumstances". Of course this description doesn't work for you and nobody would expect it to. Maybe this post was from my own experiences with my first wife and with other divorces I knew about personally. Maybe these days the percentage of what I'm talking about is less than 50%. God bless you in your career and be the best darn woman, engineer, project manager, and supervisor you can be. And don't give up on finding a good, Christian man who's not abusive and lazy. Like "a good woman", they are hard to find. Smile!
 
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ThisBrotherOfHis

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Prov. 31 is a lovely pattern for the Covenant under which it was written.

I prefer the New Covenant, where Acts 2 and Gal. 3 are normative.
I fail to see a connection between the Proverbs 31:10-30 passage establishing the independence of the biblically faithful woman, and the two chapters you cite. Can you elaborate, please?
 
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RedPonyDriver

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I fail to see a connection between the Proverbs 31:10-30 passage establishing the independence of the biblically faithful woman, and the two chapters you cite. Can you elaborate, please?

I agree...I can't see a link there. I WOULD prefer the Ephesians 5 model of marriage but its a shame that it's been so twisted.
 
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JCFantasy23

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I am NOT a chauvinist pig and I love my wife but I really believe that a good number of divorces are due to women not fulfilling their God-given place in life. I'm not saying that all women must do this, some must work and there are other circumstances but I think a great deal of the problems have to do with having two "chiefs". Just saying:

I agree this is true in some cases, but my experience has been that a lot of men seem weaker/wimpy or less manly and women end up losing respect for them.

In summary, it's both sides that are causing this.
 
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ValleyGal

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The woman in Proverbs 31 was a smart woman, put her intelligence to good use, and became a very successful entrepreneur. She managed her home (which likely included servants) well, and she managed her business (which likely included numerous employees) well. She managed and she prospered. In her time, she worked with cloth and wool; in the 50's women did canning; today, there are any number of professions to choose from - either way, the woman in Proverbs 31 worked what is today's equivalent of "outside the home."

In all of her entrepreneurial efforts, her husband trusted her to make money and to invest and reinvest wisely so that the home prospered from her income. In addition, he was respected at the city gate which meant he was right up there in business and in faith himself - iow, he managed his own work well and he was a pillar in the faith community. He obviously had very high regard for his wife and treated her well in order for her to be so prosperous....a brow-beaten woman is not likely to be so successful as one who is fully loved and supported by her husband.
 
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The woman in Proverbs 31 was a smart woman, put her intelligence to good use, and became a very successful entrepreneur. She managed her home (which likely included servants) well, and she managed her business (which likely included numerous employees) well. She managed and she prospered. In her time, she worked with cloth and wool; in the 50's women did canning; today, there are any number of professions to choose from - either way, the woman in Proverbs 31 worked what is today's equivalent of "outside the home."

In all of her entrepreneurial efforts, her husband trusted her to make money and to invest and reinvest wisely so that the home prospered from her income. In addition, he was respected at the city gate which meant he was right up there in business and in faith himself - iow, he managed his own work well and he was a pillar in the faith community. He obviously had very high regard for his wife and treated her well in order for her to be so prosperous....a brow-beaten woman is not likely to be so successful as one who is fully loved and supported by her husband.

So...why is it now that to be considered a "Proverbs 31 woman", she's expected to be a simpering doormat who caters to her husband and children, doesn't THINK about working outside the home, and essentially wants to be the 21st century reincarnation of June Cleaver?
 
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ValleyGal

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So...why is it now that to be considered a "Proverbs 31 woman", she's expected to be a simpering doormat who caters to her husband and children, doesn't THINK about working outside the home, and essentially wants to be the 21st century reincarnation of June Cleaver?

LOL. I don't know. Likely leftovers from post-war expectations that woman idolized their hero husbands who came back alive.

There are women all over in the Bible who worked outside the home. Deborah was a very successful woman as a judge over Israel - even the leader of the army would not go to battle without her. Proverbs 31 - she was a landowner and entrepreneur. In the NT, there was Lydia (no mention of a husband, and yet she dyed cloth and sold it in a very lucrative business), and there were women missionaries (Priscilla was mentioned before her husband Aquila to signify that she was the primary missionary rather than him). Of course there were more, but those are off the top of my head.

God does not condemn women who work outside the home, and he even supported it by employing Deborah....

I think when some people read Prov. 31, they see a woman quietly at home, cooking, sewing, knitting. But they fail to see that she sold the things she made, bought property, planted fields, harvested and reinvested that money as well. She was even a clothing designer and had her own line of fashion. People don't see that part though...they only see where she is sitting in her rocking chair by the fire, knitting or sewing away.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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LOL. I don't know. Likely leftovers from post-war expectations that woman idolized their hero husbands who came back alive.

There are women all over in the Bible who worked outside the home. Deborah was a very successful woman as a judge over Israel - even the leader of the army would not go to battle without her. Proverbs 31 - she was a landowner and entrepreneur. In the NT, there was Lydia (no mention of a husband, and yet she dyed cloth and sold it in a very lucrative business), and there were women missionaries (Priscilla was mentioned before her husband Aquila to signify that she was the primary missionary rather than him). Of course there were more, but those are off the top of my head.

God does not condemn women who work outside the home, and he even supported it by employing Deborah....

I think when some people read Prov. 31, they see a woman quietly at home, cooking, sewing, knitting. But they fail to see that she sold the things she made, bought property, planted fields, harvested and reinvested that money as well. She was even a clothing designer and had her own line of fashion. People don't see that part though...they only see where she is sitting in her rocking chair by the fire, knitting or sewing away.

No wonder I'm thought of as a "failure" as a Christian wife...something about no kids and a career....
 
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JoshuaDaryl

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OK folks. First off, lets get rid of all the I 's, I thinks, my opinions etc, cause they do not matter...

First the biggest cause of divorce is the I ', I thinks, my happiness, self interest, and finally the biggie, most folks do not know what love is anymore. They think it is this big sappy feeling in your gut..WRONG. I have been married 16 years, my folks for 42 years. My dad took the time to get crude and rude when I was a boy, teaching me about love....

Love is a choice, those feelings are nothing more than hormones, chemicles, lust. Going by those feelings, I could be in love every week with someone new, and that is how some folks are. No, love is this:

Love: choosing to put someone BEFORE YOU

Jesus was the perfect example, he, the creator of all, chose to lower himself, to the lowest, humblest human, to live the life of a pauper basically, in order to teach us, then , he chose to lay down his life, for us.

John 15:13 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

13 No one has greater love than a person who lays down his life for his friends.

Laying down ones life does not have to be just physically. How many divorces have there been, where you heard one spouse or the other say "I just was not happy" "I lived their life for so long, I just want to live my life" etc. Love, is choosing to put the other first, no matter what. Guess what folks, it is not always equal. Do you think it was equal, what Jesus did. It is not always fair, once again, was it fair Jesus took sins, that were not his own. My mom and dad married in 1972, when my mom was 17, and my dad was 21. My mom was not healthy, they had 3 miscarriages before mom had surgery in order to carry me. By 1980, my mom had breast cancer. She was so distraught, my dad had endured her health issues thus far, now she was losing her breast. She saw, and got to know woman, whose husbands had left them for this. My dad sat down by her, and took her hand, and looked her in the eyes, I remember this, it was such a great lesson for me, he said "girl, I married you, not your body, you, you are my best friend, you can not get rid of me, we are together for life. I meant my vows, till death do us part" he meant it. They had their fights, but being best friends they got over them. But they stuck together. They made a practice of dating, lol. My dad passed away in 2005, my mom is still heart broken.

What is marriage, marriage first and foremost is Gods picture to us, of the kind of relationship he desires with us. The closeness, intimacy, devotedness. The church is the Bride of Christ. What is the history of marriage ?

Genesis 2:21-23King James Version (KJV)

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Here we see something profound, in verse 23 Adam totally got it, his wife was A PART OF HIM.....

Why did God create a woman ?

18 Adonai, God, said, “It isn’t good that the person should be alone. I will make for him a companion suitable for helping him.” 19 So from the ground Adonai, God, formed every wild animal and every bird that flies in the air, and he brought them to the person to see what he would call them. Whatever the person would call each living creature, that was to be its name. (S: iii) 20 So the person gave names to all the livestock, to the birds in the air and to every wild animal. But for Adam there was not found a companion suitable for helping him.

You see here, God had planned for Adam to have a companion from the very beginning, but first he made Adam realize, that he was alone, there was no suitable companion for him. It is not good for a man to be alone. Its funny, that medical experts have concluded that married men live longer than single men.

What was Gods intentions for this coupling ?

Mark 10 Common English Bible (CEB)

Divorce and remarriage
10 Jesus left that place and went beyond the Jordan and into the region of Judea. Crowds gathered around him again and, as usual, he taught them. 2 Some Pharisees came and, trying to test him, they asked, “Does the Law allow a man to divorce his wife?”

3 Jesus answered, “What did Moses command you?”

4 They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a divorce certificate and to divorce his wife.”

5 Jesus said to them, “He wrote this commandment for you because of your unyielding hearts. 6 At the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.[a] 7 Because of this, a man should leave his father and mother and be joined together with his wife, 8 and the two will be one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 Therefore, humans must not pull apart what God has put together.”

10 Inside the house, the disciples asked him again about this. 11 He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; 12 and if a wife divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

He intended them to stick together, till the end. The two, are one. Remember that the rib, was removed from Adam. I believe it goes deeper than just the rib though. I believe that God removed certain qualities of the man also. Some of the mans deeper compassion, his "feminine side" if you will, was removed, and made into the woman. Thus further showing how that marriage is for the man, and the woman, because the two complement, and complete each other. Because the man, and the woman, are in fact, two parts of a whole.

The woman was made for the man. The man was made for Christ.

1 Corinthians 11 Common English Bible (CEB)

11 1 Follow my example, just like I follow Christ’s.

Appropriate dress in worship

2 I praise you because you remember all my instructions, and you hold on to the traditions exactly as I handed them on to you. 3 Now I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered shames his head.

5 Every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head. It is the same thing as having her head shaved. 6 If a woman doesn't cover her head, then she should have her hair cut off. If it is disgraceful for a woman to have short hair or to be shaved, then she should keep her head covered. 7 A man shouldn't have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is man’s glory. 8 Man didn't have his origin from woman, but woman from man; 9 and man wasn't created for the sake of the woman, but the woman for the sake of the man. 10 Because of this a woman should have authority over her head, because of the angels. 11 However, woman isn’t independent from man, and man isn’t independent from woman in the Lord. 12 As woman came from man so also man comes from woman. But everything comes from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: Is it appropriate for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Doesn’t nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him; 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? This is because her long hair is given to her for a covering. 16 But if someone wants to argue about this, we don't have such a custom, nor do God’s churches.

Here we see God's ordained chain of command, there is God, Jesus Christ, man, then women. In that order. This is why it is so wrong, the way our society has gone. All natural order has been turned on its head. Woman in government, women preachers, women ruling over men, it is shameful and wrong. Lucifer is a sly ole fox though. He took the bitterness of women, who lived through generations of preaching that woman were second rate citizens, and they , well basicly it amounted to abuse, they were told that they were property basicly. This bitterness made it easy for Lucifer to come along, and help incite the feminist movement. Now before we go woman bashing men, it is not them God blames, it is us men. Because we are the head, we are the high priest, we are the ones who were to lead, and it was done wrong. For God says:

Luke 12:48 (KJ21) |

48 But he that knew not and committed things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

We were given much, we were given the privilege to lead our families, which ultimately belong to God, and we can not claim that we did not know better, because we were given an instruction manual. How is a man to lead, well Jesus was our example, remember, he is the bride groom, how he lived, taught, and acted with us while he was here, is our example.

Ephesians 5:25-33English Standard Version (ESV)

25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.[a] 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Boy, this says it all. We are to love her and treat her with the same respect and dignity as we would for ourselves. How much easier, it would be, for a woman to take her proper role, well, if man took his proper role, and treated her as this.

My father demanded my mother be treated with respect and dignity. I try to do the same for my wife. I am but a poor wretched sinner saved by Grace, I fail often, but I strive on to perfection, I strive to treat my wife, as the example given me by Jesus, and a Godly father. When I mess up, I confess, apologize, repent. My wife says that is why she loves me, not because I always do right, she cherishes the fact that doing right is where my heart is, and I struggle for it, and I am honest, and face up to my mistakes.

My mother use to tell me and my siblings this:
"God made woman, not from Adams feet, to be stepped on, not from Adams head to rule him, but from a rib, in his side, to walk beside him"

I do not know, nor believe my mom came up with that on her own, and it does not matter, but the depth of truth there, and it was her motto as a wife and mother.

In closing I want to point out one more thing, how cherished is a woman by Jesus Christ, how many times did we see him lifting up a woman, who had been trampled on her whole life. The woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery, the woman that washed him. How about this, one of his last acts:

John 19:25-27King James Version (KJV)

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
 
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Devorim

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Interesting, isn't it, how the two genders tend to blame the other gender for the failures in marriage.

My present husband and I got married without any classes or counseling. The second marriage for both of us, both having lost our first spouses -- mine to an accident, his to an unsuccessful bypass -- they thought we must know everything. Well, no we didn't. We didn't get counseling for our first marriages either, and e had no idea we'd missed anything. We were fortunate that we got along so well, but that led to complacency for both of us. We were so smug. We thought we knew everything and even avoided couples' weekends available to us to improve our marriage. We snickered and said, "Not for us!"

We had learned the art of disagreement, discussion, and debate without anger. We delighted in these debates and just thought we were grand examples when they ended without derision, and we chuckled on down our little path.

Then he wanted to go see a fairly recent movie, purported to be "true" and "Christian." I didn't want to see it. I thought it ludicrous, with elements that were unbiblical. After a little bit of debate, I decided to go see it with him, just to please him. By the time we left, I was thoroughly disgusted with it. The best parts of it were my restroom break and going down to buy popcorn.

I was just not going to say anything, but on the way home, he wanted to discuss it. Unnnhhh. That went on all the way home and into our house. It ended with him being mad at me for my attitude toward the false junk in the movie and its open, spoken accusation toward anyone who did not believe it -- that they just were not really believers.

We went to bed in silence.

But we got up the next morning full of apologies and determination to never allow that to happen again. And we started talking, finally, about counseling and the reality that we are not a perfect couple -- we could learn some stuff.

Now, we are in a marriage class with a specific book. We are reading the book, doing the workbook, and attending the classes. Honestly, the whole thing is very hard on both of us, but not because we are learning anything. We keep staying with it, keep hoping, but we have begun to believe that it is for the very immature marriage, not for those in their later 60s or for those who have a happy marriage with a couple bumps.

I am really sorry for my attitude -- our attitudes. I just wish there was some real help out there for us older ones....
 
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