Being a Christian vs. Being Spiritual

A Christian is someone who has placed their total trust and faith in Christ alone for Salvation. Plenty of non-Christians go to church thinking they have met their obligation.

KitKatMatt said:

That's not the one, I'm afraid This one was specifically about praying in public.

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Perhaps it was Matthew 6?

Oop, found it!

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:5, and there's some more stuff around that too, like 6:6:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Darth Bagel said:

Perhaps it was Matthew 6?

Matthew 6v5

‘And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward.
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Beat me to it before I posted! Thank you!

I think most of us can agree that Christ didn't literally want us to shut ourselves in a closet before we pray, but that the passage is a reflection of each individuals disposition while praying and worshiping. If they're making a show of it, praying huge flowery prayers so that others will believe they're more righteous, than that's a problem. Or if they're dancing around, waving flags and generally being a big distraction during worship then others' focus shifts from God to that person, and that's also a problem.

Rather, all of our prayer and worship should be rooted in humility, not thrust in others faces as a showpiece.

there are Christians who do not attend church services for one reason or another

while I think that may not be the best way to go about it,
it is better then being in a toxic environment, like some congregations can be
and are all in a different place in our walk with Christ, so I can understand that some people, for whatever reason, just have to take a break for a while

I will say that the Church as presented in Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles and Revelation, is a community, not just a solitary believer with his Bible by himself
so I do think that the covenant community as articulated in the Scripture and seen through history should be the standard

here is an interesting article about "spiritual vs. religious"
White Trash Religion In A Nutshell: Proud, Ignorant, And Messy

From the article:

Tattoos. Unwed pregnancy. Giving up on shaving…showering…and employment. These used to be signatures of a trashy individual. Now they’re the new norm. What happened to etiquette, hygiene, and self restraint? Charlotte Hays, Southern gentlewoman extraordinaire, takes a humorous look at the spread of white trash culture to all levels of American society.

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This is a pretty good example of why some church people scare me. Skimming through the article, I couldn't find anything I could actually identify as christian thought.

Despite the pretensions of its practitioners, all this yoga and ersatz Buddhist spirituality is nothing more than an updated version of some Snopes floozy in a Faulkner novel too lazy to get out of her dirty bed in her awful cabin to get dressed and go to church on Sunday morning, while the respectable Sartoris grandmother has made sure her grandchildren are scrubbed and dressed to within an inch of their lives and marched them into the pew to insure that they’ll end up public-spirited contributing members of the community.

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This is the exact attitude people have here about "spirituality", and it's really disheartening. Everyone has to be demeaning and derogatory when speaking of it, yet every self proclaimed "spiritual" person I've met are good people who I personally prefer to be around than the people I used to attend church with.

Taken from the "White Trash Religion" article.

Nanopants said:

From the article:

This is a pretty good example of why some church people scare me. Skimming through the article, I couldn't find anything I could actually identify as christian thought.

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I have the same feelings after reading it.

This is the kind of mindset that was everywhere in the church I grew up in. It was horrible and judgmental.

the language used in the article is kind of harsh
even off putting

but I do think there is some value in what she had to say about how church helps people

I couldn't get past the repeated derogatory statements to find anything useful.

One can only handle so much of that before needing to turn away. That reminds me, that's exactly the reason I turned away from my church...

Rhamiel said:

the language used in the article is kind of harsh
even off putting

but I do think there is some value in what she had to say about how church helps people

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More like an example of what not to do. Something about scattering comes to mind, and she really needs to read James 3. If her church wants to help her, I'd say they should probably have her help the homeless until she's done complaining.

Darth Bagel said:

I think most of us can agree that Christ didn't literally want us to shut ourselves in a closet before we pray, but that the passage is a reflection of each individuals disposition while praying and worshiping. If they're making a show of it, praying huge flowery prayers so that others will believe they're more righteous, than that's a problem. Or if they're dancing around, waving flags and generally being a big distraction during worship then others' focus shifts from God to that person, and that's also a problem.

Rather, all of our prayer and worship should be rooted in humility, not thrust in others faces as a showpiece.

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I think he did mean it. Throughout the New Testament Jesus repeated goes off by himself to pray. I think there's something special about alone time with God.

Being a Christian that attends church is very difficult for most people today. Apart from most people not having (or not willing to sacrifice) time to attending the meetings, there is also the different levels of devotion that people show which ends up creating a form of competition.
The biggest advantage I see with people that don't go is that they are no longer accountable to anyone or any set of standards which makes for an easier form of Christianity. No one can question their actions or beliefs.
The modern church is also quite financially demanding. Then of course there's the hypocrites and politics that goes on in most churches. Some extreme cases also have physical and emotional abuse by church leaders and various levels of manipulation.
It's simply much much easier to not attend church these days and most people are turning towards that giving some religious excuse as a reason for not attending.

KitKatMatt said:

As per Christian vs Spiritual, it really depends on each person's definition of spiritual. A lot of people I know seem to define it as "New Age artsy crap"

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For some reason, it seems to be standard way to think about new religious/spiritual movements that people practising them are not being as serious as people who practise old religions.

I personally used to be rather skeptical about seriousness of Wiccans, but then I realized I'm just being judgemental without any real basis so I went on to read one or two books about it and read blogs of few people who identify as Wiccas. I can't anymore say I feel that way about it after learning a little bit more about them.

KitKatMatt said:

I personally define it as "my own set of religious values", which may or may not include chunks or pieces from other religions, or even be solid based on them.

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That sounds pretty much like eclecticism to me. Would you describe yourself as an eclectic?

JackofSpades said:

That sounds pretty much like eclecticism to me. Would you describe yourself as an eclectic?

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Probably? In the sense that I'm definitely not a fundamentalist Christian, and have taken experiences and a few beliefs to heart from other religions.

KitKatMatt said:

Probably? In the sense that I'm definitely not a fundamentalist Christian, and have taken experiences and a few beliefs to heart from other religions.

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I see. Some people who are not committed to any particular religion identify just as "eclectic", just asked if you happen to do so. I could use the word "eclectic" for myself in some sense aswell. It's not that important to me what religion it is, if I can learn something from it.

I've noticed that opening up for influences causes ones spirituality to turn into something that is under constant change and re-definition. It can be exciting spiritual adventure or an annoyingly unstable chaos, it's really about point of view which one, I guess. I personally like the idea of god being someone who is just fine with me toying around with my world view to better understand him.

May I ask what are the experiences from other religions you are refering to? I'm very interested about experiential spirituality.

r035198x said:

Being a Christian that attends church is very difficult for most people today. Apart from most people not having (or not willing to sacrifice) time to attending the meetings, there is also the different levels of devotion that people show which ends up creating a form of competition.
The biggest advantage I see with people that don't go is that they are no longer accountable to anyone or any set of standards which makes for an easier form of Christianity. No one can question their actions or beliefs.
The modern church is also quite financially demanding. Then of course there's the hypocrites and politics that goes on in most churches. Some extreme cases also have physical and emotional abuse by church leaders and various levels of manipulation.
It's simply much much easier to not attend church these days and most people are turning towards that giving some religious excuse as a reason for not attending.

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Simply put, it's not that simple. I can just as easily claim that large "religious" segments of the christian community use religious excuses to act without humility, as if no one can question their actions or beliefs, as if they're still large and in charge as a state religion, but since they're not, they're basically just like any other run of the mill, do-it-yourself church that thinks it has authority over everyone else as soon as someone steps up to the pulpit. It's actually my religion which prohibits me from that course of action, because self-appointed authorities are considered to be rebellious toward the only authority that really matters, and that is not an excuse, it's a reason to fear God and to separate myself from that behavior.

JackofSpades said:

I see. Some people who are not committed to any particular religion identify just as "eclectic", just asked if you happen to do so. I could use the word "eclectic" for myself in some sense aswell. It's not that important to me what religion it is, if I can learn something from it.

I've noticed that opening up for influences causes ones spirituality to turn into something that is under constant change and re-definition. It can be exciting spiritual adventure or an annoyingly unstable chaos, it's really about point of view which one, I guess. I personally like the idea of god being someone who is just fine with me toying around with my world view to better understand him.

May I ask what are the experiences from other religions you are refering to? I'm very interested about experiential spirituality.

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I've never heard the use of the word "eclectic" in regards to religion before, so it's an interesting thing to think about for me.

The belief of reincarnation, I took from somewhere. It's strange, because I know logically it can't be proven, yet it fits so perfectly with me?

Another one is the belief that all things have spirits and should be treated with respect. This includes inanimate things, which sort of have a spirit "injected" into them when a person makes it. Not like some sort of powerful thing or something, just a little spirit or soul. This fits with me because I feel terrible destroying things. I feel like I'm harming something, and that I shouldn't do that but instead respect it in some way. I believe this comes from Shinto.

KitKatMatt said:

The belief of reincarnation, I took from somewhere. It's strange, because I know logically it can't be proven, yet it fits so perfectly with me?

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I think its very normal that our heart chooses what to believe without consulting our brain first for what is supposedly most rational way to think. I see nothing problematic with that in spirituality. I've heard some people say about religious beliefs we have that "we don't choose our path, the path chooses us". I can't really say if it's true or not, but it appears to have some truth in it for my part at least.

This is just my opinion, but I think in it's ideal form, finding a suitable religion is just about finding a description for what we allready believe in our hearts. It might be or not be some of the allready existing religions.

KitKatMatt said:

Another one is the belief that all things have spirits and should be treated with respect. This includes inanimate things, which sort of have a spirit "injected" into them when a person makes it. Not like some sort of powerful thing or something, just a little spirit or soul.
This fits with me because I feel terrible destroying things. I feel like I'm harming something, and that I shouldn't do that but instead respect it in some way. I believe this comes from Shinto.

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I would probably put it in other words but I also believe that there is spiritual side of all things. But my belief on this arent very organized, its more like an impression I have experienced and am open to experience it deeper. What it excactly is and what sort of conclusions I should make of it, is pretty unclear to me.

I have to mention that I think believing something has a spirit doesn't necessarily lead to a conclusion that we can't harm it at all. For example many ancient hunter tribes held belief that animals have spirit like humans do, yet they hunted them and saw no problem with it.

I find it interesting that according to the Bible, Jesus talked to wind and to a tree. One possible way to see this is that for Jesus, those things were conscious beings.