Views on secular music.

Sammy-San

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Some Christians believe it's wrong to make a habit out of listening to secular music, because its worldly, and the bible says to not love the world. However, I dont understand how that verse about not loving the world, implies its a sin to enjoy secular entertainment.

I've even heard somebody say the Bible says music is for worship-therefore secular music is wrong. While that is true that the bible even mentions music is for worship, that verse doesnt imply that its the only reason music was created-and that using music for other purposes is wrong.

However, in my personal belief, as long as the music isnt an idol, or it glorifies stuff like violence or drugs/sex, then listening to it is probably okay.

Any thoughts?
 

Archie the Preacher

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(Kind of like stupid or ugly.)

The God of Music is also the God of Competence. The Jewish concept of "Kosher", which was instituted by Almightly God in the Mosaic Law, is the world's oldest 'quality control' mechanism.

Music that is carefully written and properly executed is glorifying to God. Sacred music is specifically written for the formal worship of God. Throughout history musicians have written music - some of which was for 'worship' services and some wasn't. Nearly every 'classic' composer wrote either the musical background for masses; in between writing symphonies and waltzes.

Frankly, I don't like some types of music. Some modern music - some 'classic' music as well but most of the bad stuff hasn't survived - is simply poorly written. It is wretched to listen and worse to attempt to hum or whistle. This includes some 'religious' music.

There are some pieces of music which are dedicated to evil. Anything glorifying illicit sex, recreational drug usage, and or killing police officers (or other 'group') is just plan wrong. However, this is not to vilify some 'types' of music. Neither 'Rock and Roll' nor 'Rap' are evil in themselves. (I must confess I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing another note of "Rap". But that is a personal taste matter and not Biblical doctrine.)

Over the years, people have decried all manner of music. Religious people have probably been the worst, operating on the theory that if something is enjoyable, God is agin' it.

There is an unsubstantiated story of the first man to play two notes at the same time. He was a church musician in a small town in Germany. One Sunday morning, he was playing for the church choir and instead of playing single notes - he had a musical breakthrough and played a song using two note chords. The church members demonstrated their reaction by dragging the musician from the church and stoning him to death in the street.

In the last century, Jazz, 12-note scale, Swing Bang, Boogie-Woogie, and Crooner music have all been decried and condemned by 'religious' people. Some rather inept preachers made a living by preaching against 'Rock and Roll'. I think 'Rap' is the latest 'devil music' under condemnation.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Some Christians believe it's wrong to make a habit out of listening to secular music, because its worldly, and the bible says to not love the world. However, I dont understand how that verse about not loving the world, implies its a sin to enjoy secular entertainment.

I've even heard somebody say the Bible says music is for worship-therefore secular music is wrong. While that is true that the bible even mentions music is for worship, that verse doesnt imply that its the only reason music was created-and that using music for other purposes is wrong.

However, in my personal belief, as long as the music isnt an idol, or it glorifies stuff like violence or drugs/sex, then listening to it is probably okay.

Any thoughts?

People often use "worldliness" as an excuse for moralism. When my grandmother was growing up she attended a legalistic, moralistic church that taught that women couldn't wear makeup or jewelry, men couldn't have beards, going to movies or sporting events was wrong, playing cards was wrong, etc. All of these things were said to be "worldly", and the moral justification for opposing these things was nothing but moralistic fluff, it was entirely arbitrary. Because it is just as "worldly" for men to wear pants, be clean shaven, or for people to go out to a restaurant, to shop for clothes at a department store, to drive a car, to drink water, or have a flower garden.

It's the same moralistic nonsense, "don't touch", "don't taste, etc--the same kind of moralistic, legalistic nonsense St. Paul condemns in Colossians ch. 2.

Before the 20th century the very concept of "secular music" would have been nonsense. There was just music, there was Mozart, Beethoven, Bach. Their music was "secular" in that it was what people in Western societies listened to, and much of their music (in particularly Bach's case) was had deeply religious undertones. Bach's music especially was religious in nature due to Bach's devout Lutheran faith and the use of his music for hymns.

The idea of "Christian music" is very modern. The birth of modern "Christian music" or CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) came about through the Jesus Movement of the late 60's/early 70's and saturated the Evangelical landscape especially in the 80's and 90's. To make it a booming industry.

So why should I listen to Michael W. Smith instead of Frank Sinatra, Otis Redding, or Queen? Because the music is "Christian"? Should I only wear Chrsitian t-shirts instead of normal t-shirts? Should my sneakers have crosses on them?

I think this is a quote that adequately sums up how I feel about the modern Christian entertainment industry--its music, its clothes, and its ethos:

“The Christian shoemaker does his duty not by putting little crosses on the shoes, but by making good shoes, because God is interested in good craftsmanship.” - Martin Luther

-CryptoLutheran
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Some Christians believe it's wrong to make a habit out of listening to secular music, because its worldly, and the bible says to not love the world. However, I dont understand how that verse about not loving the world, implies its a sin to enjoy secular entertainment.

I've even heard somebody say the Bible says music is for worship-therefore secular music is wrong. While that is true that the bible even mentions music is for worship, that verse doesnt imply that its the only reason music was created-and that using music for other purposes is wrong.

However, in my personal belief, as long as the music isnt an idol, or it glorifies stuff like violence or drugs/sex, then listening to it is probably okay.

Any thoughts?

I think the 'test' is in whether on not you would actually throw away your entire music collection if an angel of God showed up and asked you to do so...

The question is: How much do you love your music, whether it's Secular or Christian?
 
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Sammy-San

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I think the 'test' is in whether on not you would actually throw away your entire music collection if an angel of God showed up and asked you to do so...

The question is: How much do you love your music, whether it's Secular or Christian?

When you say "how much do you love your music, what exactly do you mean by that"?
 
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Archie the Preacher

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2PhiloVoid said:
I think the 'test' is in whether on not you would actually throw away your entire music collection if an angel of God showed up and asked you to do so...
And that prompts question One: Just exactly who is this angel and is said angel from God or from Satan? Looking back at many heresies foisted upon Christians throughout history, how many have come from Satanic influence attempting to distract Christians? I suspect more than just a few.

Corollary question: Upon what Biblical grounds would an angel of God order one to destroy or discard one's music collection?

2PhiloVoid said:
The question is: How much do you love your music, whether it's Secular or Christian?
That sounds very serious, but it can be applied to any number of other facets and instrumentalities in life.

How much do you love your heater/air conditioner?
How much do you love your children?
How much do you love your parents?
How much do you love your righteousness? (Not God's, yours.)

What does one do with all these questions?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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When you say "how much do you love your music, what exactly do you mean by that"?

Sam,

All I'm saying is that whatever we attach ourselves to in this world, God's estimation of our love for those things will be shown in how we can honestly say we are willing to part with them or not. Some of this is implied where James says, "You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God" (James 4:4). When James uses the word "friendship" here, he does so in connection with people's lust of having "stuff" in the world.

In other words, when I asked "how much do you love your music, "I didn't mean "love" in a colloquial sense, as in you "love" the Beatles music, which if you actually did would only mean you have a strong taste for their music.

So, if for instance you like "Nickelback," and you say you could never live without their music in your life, then there would perhaps be a problem.
 
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ViaCrucis

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So, if for instance you like "Nickelback," and you say you could never live without their music in your life, then there would perhaps be a problem.

Well sure, that'd be a problem. But that's because Nickleback is terrible music. :cool:

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SkyWriting

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Some Christians believe it's wrong to make a habit out of listening to secular music, because its worldly, and the bible says to not love the world. However, I dont understand how that verse about not loving the world, implies its a sin to enjoy secular entertainment.

I've even heard somebody say the Bible says music is for worship-therefore secular music is wrong. While that is true that the bible even mentions music is for worship, that verse doesnt imply that its the only reason music was created-and that using music for other purposes is wrong.

However, in my personal belief, as long as the music isnt an idol, or it glorifies stuff like violence or drugs/sex, then listening to it is probably okay.

Any thoughts?

You should remain sober and enjoy music that glorifies man and creation.
Your taste in such music will likely change over time so no specific
category or type is off limits or "on the approved list."
 
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BornAgainBrian

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This is a Romans 14 bit to me. If someone chooses to give up all non-religious music for God, then good for them. It's not up to me to convince them otherwise. It's also not up to them to tell me to destroy my music collection.
 
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Some Christians believe it's wrong to make a habit out of listening to secular music, because its worldly, and the bible says to not love the world. However, I dont understand how that verse about not loving the world, implies its a sin to enjoy secular entertainment.

I've even heard somebody say the Bible says music is for worship-therefore secular music is wrong. While that is true that the bible even mentions music is for worship, that verse doesnt imply that its the only reason music was created-and that using music for other purposes is wrong.

However, in my personal belief, as long as the music isnt an idol, or it glorifies stuff like violence or drugs/sex, then listening to it is probably okay.

Any thoughts?

Music isn't good or bad, in itself, just because it happens to be "secular" or "Christian". The truth is, there are plenty of Gospel songs that are just as bad as bad secular songs. They're just bad for different reasons.

In our house, a good rule of thumb we've tried to teach our children is to evaluate music and entertainment (and, really, this applies to most things in life) by asking four simple questions:

1. Does it pass the Philippians 4 test?

Is it true? Is it honorable? Is it just? Is it pure? Is it lovely? Is it commendable? Is there any excellence? Is there anything worthy of praise?


2. Does it pass the Galatians 5 test?

Does it exhibit, glorify, or incite the works of the flesh, which are sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, either in thought or in deed?

Or does it exhibit, glorify, or encourage the fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control?


3. Does it pass the 1 Corinthians 8 test?

Even if it's something God grants us the liberty to enjoy or engage in, would our doing it cause a weaker brother or sister in Christ to sin or to stumble in their walk with Christ?


4. Is it an idol to you?

If it's something that failed the three tests above, would you give it up? If so, then what would your attitude be about giving it up? Would you be glad to give it up, knowing it doesn't glorify God, isn't conducive to growth in Christ, and could cause a weaker brother or sister in Christ to sin or stumble in their walk with Christ?

Or would you give it up grudgingly or not give it up at all? If so, then it's an idol.
 
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aiki

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Views on secular music.
Some Christians believe it's wrong to make a habit out of listening to secular music, because its worldly, and the bible says to not love the world. However, I dont understand how that verse about not loving the world, implies its a sin to enjoy secular entertainment.

I've even heard somebody say the Bible says music is for worship-therefore secular music is wrong. While that is true that the bible even mentions music is for worship, that verse doesnt imply that its the only reason music was created-and that using music for other purposes is wrong.

However, in my personal belief, as long as the music isnt an idol, or it glorifies stuff like violence or drugs/sex, then listening to it is probably okay.

Any thoughts?
You know, these kinds of concerns and questions quite miss the point of being a follower of Christ. The apostle Paul wrote, "To me to live is Christ." This is the final aim of all who are disciples of Jesus - or it ought to be. I am convinced that the closer you get to being able to say with Paul that Christ is your life, the less you'll be asking about what you can and can't do as a Christian. When Jesus fills your view, when he is your life, the kind of music choices you make will inevitably and naturally reflect that he is so.

Selah.
 
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Von Davidicus

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I dunno. *Looks at collection of instruments* I enjoy playing music. I enjoy having these instruments. So, I guess that's friendship with the world. Also, the fact that I play instruments--considering Genesis 4:21, isn't that paying homage to the line of Cain?
 
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