Liberal Christian Theology..

bbbbbbb said:

My apologies regarding Belhar. My memory failed me yet again. I agree that that the PCUSA is closer to Calvin at this point than Westminster.

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Only in abstract principles, I hope you mean. It's probably not for nothing that PCUSA has been called the mainline church that 's moved away from traditional moral standards faster than any other and in the shortest amount of time.

bbbbbbb said:

What I meant to convey was that the sermon was vapid in the sense that love was merely left as a fuzzy feeling and not as an application to be used in daily life. When Jesus was asked about the topic He gave us the parable of the Prodigal Son. He did not simply tell the Pharisees to think sweet and loving thoughts.

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Thank you for this explanation. Please forgive me.

Don't even worry about people. Look at Scripture, if God said it, trust it. Come judgment day, everyone's opinions at that point won't matter.

Albion said:

Only in abstract principles, I hope you mean. It's probably not for nothing that PCUSA has been called the mainline church that 's moved away from traditional moral standards faster than any other and in the shortest amount of time.

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Yes, I meant precisely that. The Westminster Confession is quite precise, whereas Calvin wrote so much that can, and has been, interpreted in ways I am certain never occured to him.

seeking.IAM said:

Thank you for this explanation. Please forgive me.

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No problem. I confess that I am sometimes unable to communicate as precisely as I think I might.

bbbbbbb said:

No problem. I confess that I am sometimes unable to communicate as precisely as I think I might.

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B-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut at least you don't stutter.

elliott95 said:

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut at least you don't stutter.

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yogosans14 said:

Episcopal Church Approves Gay Couples' Same-Sex Blessings

My statement wasn't false. I and many others are aware of the Episcopal churches extreme liberal stances. I think it's more of a motivational church rather then a Bible based church imho.

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I suspect you haven't actually been to Episcopal worship for you to believe it is not Bible based. I came to the Episcopal Church in my 50s after spending a lifetime in evangelical Protestant churches. Episcopal worship and liturgy is more full of Bible than any other worship in which I participated in my first 50 years. Come and see.

yogosans14 said:

Episcopal Church Approves Gay Couples' Same-Sex Blessings

My statement wasn't false. I and many others are aware of the Episcopal churches extreme liberal stances. I think it's more of a motivational church rather then a Bible based church imho.

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I already debunked that. I want an official proof. Please give it or do the Christian thing and retract.

seeking.IAM said:

I suspect you haven't actually been to Episcopal worship for your to believe it is not Bible based. I came to the Episcopal Church in my 50s after spending a lifetime in evangelical Protestant churches. Episcopal worship and liturgy is more full of Bible than any other worship in which I participated in my first 50 years. Come and see.

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Seriously, it is quite possible to have a worship service filled with Bible references and readings yet the practices of the church, the teachings from the pulpit, and the stances taken by the church's leadership be anything but in synch with that. And this is hardly a problem with just one denomination.

The converse can be said though of conservative congregations that they are filled with bible references but are not in synch with them. The truth is scripture is so diverse and open to interpretation in many areas that anyone with any bend or agenda can twist them to their liking.

Albion said:

Seriously, it is quite possible to have a worship service filled with Bible references and readings yet the practices of the church, the teachings from the pulpit, and the stances taken by the church's leadership be anything but in synch with that. And this is hardly a problem with just one denomination.

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I have not been in every Episcopal church so I cannot say. I can say, you will not hear such teaching in my church that is anything but firmly rooted in scripture. Ours is a big tent church with conservatives, moderates, & liberals. We tend to stick to the essentials on which all can agree. See the signature line.

seeking.IAM said:

I have not been in every Episcopal church so I cannot say. I can say, you will not hear such teaching in my church that is anything but firmly rooted in scripture. Ours is a big tent church with conservatives, moderates, & liberals. We tend to stick to the essentials on which all can agree. See the signature line.

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I understand, but most local churches belong to national church bodies, regardless of which denomination we are speaking of. Certainly, we may speak of the local as not being supportive of what the national church stands for or does, but if it continues its membership, it is to some degree involved.

Albion said:

I understand, but most local churches belong to national church bodies, regardless of which denomination we are speaking of. Certainly, we may speak of the local as not being supportive of what the national church stands for or does, but if it continues its membership, it is to some degree involved.

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In my 63 years, I have worshipped with several religious bodies including Wesleyan, Presbyterian, UCC, Lutheran, Orthodox, Episcopalian, & over 4 decades in the UMC. I have yet to attend one where I agreed with everything the larger denomination espoused. If you can find that, more power to you.

I fully believe that Christians of every stripe will hear upon arriving in Heaven, "You know you misunderstood part of what I was trying to say, but you tried to be faithful so come on in." There are no perfect churches just as there are no perfect Christians.

seeking.IAM said:

In my 63 years, I have worshipped with several religious bodies including Wesleyan, Presbyterian, UCC, Lutheran, Orthodox, Episcopalian, & over 4 decades in the UMC. I have yet to attend one where I agreed with everything the larger denomination espoused. If you can find that, more power to you..

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I know, but that wasn't the issue here. At least, I took it from your earlier post that you were saying ("I suspect you haven't actually been to Episcopal worship for you to believe it is not Bible based") that yogosans' comments were in error. As I explained to you, they weren't necessarily inaccurate. You each have a valid point, depending upon how we should look at that matter.

Albion said:

I understand, but most local churches belong to national church bodies, regardless of which denomination we are speaking of. Certainly, we may speak of the local as not being supportive of what the national church stands for or does, but if it continues its membership, it is to some degree involved.

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lol,... It is both amusing and alarming what creatures of complexity and ambiguity we are from the individual level to the congregation level.
And that ambiguity gets a force multiplier with phrases like " bible based".
These Hollywood movies are also "bible based", but the consistency of their correlation to the general Christian faith and history is at best, arguable.

...lol, how do I end this on an up note?

Rick Otto said:

lol,... It is both amusing and alarming what creatures of complexity and ambiguity we are from the individual level to the congregation level.
And that ambiguity gets a force multiplier with phrases like " bible based".
These Hollywood movies are also "bible based", but the consistency of their correlation to the general Christian faith and history is at best, arguable.

...lol, how do I end this on an up note?

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You could demonstrate that your post is "bible based".