Curious

Biblewriter said:

I am curious as to why this sub-forum has been invaded by so many trolls whose sole purpose is to discredit the entire study of eschatology.

Why do these people think it is appropriate to come to a place dedicated to a particular field of scriptural study, only to attack the study itself?

It makes no sense, and has caused many former posters to throw up their hands in disgust and simply walk away.

Is this your goal?

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Its no big deal , the fact that you bother to talk to them tells me that you enjoy their company and why not their Christians. Lets be honest , it would be boring without them.

brian57 said:

Its no big deal , the fact that you bother to talk to them tells me that you enjoy their company and why not their Christians. Lets be honest , it would be boring without them.

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I think it has more to do with the scripture below as why some of us would take a stand to defend the truth in the bible. I know it would be a lot more pleasant and enjoyable in this forum without all the commotion.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

What is it Biblewriter, you can't deal with an opposing view of eschatology?

I have been a frequent poster in the past, however I have almost completely stopped posting within the last six months. The reason is simply that this particular eschatology site has become a source for argumentation. I have personally been very discouraged to the point that I have become an infrequent poster.

I have a strong connection to bible prophecy myself and a love for it. I think it is because that this is the method that God used so that I personally would come to the faith in my Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

I also believe that many people come to sites like this one because they are searching for truth. If they find posters who come across in a negative way to others, they could go elsewhere, or worse, end up being deceived. As Christians, we should be reaching out in love to our brothers and sisters in the faith by setting an example and set ourselves apart from the world.

I also believe that there are many prophecies that have not been fulfiled yet and are still future. I do not believe that everything has already been fulfiled. A futurists forum may good to have so that main issues dealing with bible prophecy can be discussed openly.

Some years ago, I took great personal offense to something another believer did against me.

As I was new in the faith, I wondered about and struggled with why I had to forgive them.

After a service at an assembly I was visiting, I asked their pastor about the above.

I have never forgotten his simple response. He became excited as if he had some really great news to rejoice in and said "You don't have to forgive him; you can!"

That just blew me away, as I right away understood the difference - that I was making that person the issue when Christ had long since both solved for such issues as well as had provided a means of victory over same - Forgive as God forgave you for Christ's sake.

In other words, though His forgiveness was the last we deserved, He forgave us for His Son's sake - make that the issue.

Faith that worketh love - that is powered up, simply by a focus on His great love wherewith He loved us though we had not deserved it.

In other the words, in that other believer's offense I now had an opportunity to exercise an opportunity I had not a moment prior to said offense - the opportunity to obey a passage of Scripture by faith, on an issue, over allowing my flesh to lord over me through my emotions as neither to be allowed to do so, Romans 6, Ephesians 4.

At times I am amused by the notions, and or actions of some on here, my own included. But as a result of the above, I have long since learned to be content with allowing the real issue to be the issue - Christ.

I speak what I understand as the truth from that.

Its intent, however, still remains in the eye of each beholder's decision to take things as they do, no matter how it is put.

In this, I say continue to post, as the tribulation of opposition "can" not only work patience, when properly viewed, but "can," when it comes at us, be used by us as a means of further refining our own understanding of what we hold to.

In this, I often come away from this forum with something from the opposition that I may not have thought of as to my own position and its further refinement, that I might want to study out.

This - simply when we allow iron to sharpen iron.

bibletruth469 said:

I have been a frequent poster in the past, however I have almost completely stopped posting within the last six months. The reason is simply that this particular eschatology site has become a source for argumentation. I have personally been very discouraged to the point that I have become an infrequent poster.

I have a strong connection to bible prophecy myself and a love for it. I think it is because that this is the method that God used so that I personally would come to the faith in my Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

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Are you discouraged because there are saints who don't hold the same view that you do?

bibletruth469 said:

I also believe that many people come to sites like this one because they are searching for truth. If they find posters who come across in a negative way to others, they could go elsewhere, or worse, end up being deceived. As Christians, we should be reaching out in love to our brothers and sisters in the faith by setting an example and set ourselves apart from the world.

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As Christians we have all been misled or mistaken by the teachings of others at one time or another. I believe if an opposing view drives one back to the word of God it's not a bad thing.

bibletruth469 said:

I also believe that there are many prophecies that have not been fulfiled yet and are still future. I do not believe that everything has already been fulfiled. A futurists forum may good to have so that main issues dealing with bible prophecy can be discussed openly.

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This is going to be an issue until the Lord returns. The problem I would see is in those who would wish to challenge whether one is a Christian because they have a different view of eschatology.

What I know is this...when the Lord returns there is NO DOUBT we all are going to find out we where wrong at some particular point in what we believe about the end times.

Ebed-melech said; What I know is this...when the Lord returns there is NO DOUBT we all are going to find out we where wrong at some particular point in what we believe about the end times. Quote

And why do we go wrong? God HAS given us all we need to know about how to live, our salvation and what will happen in the end times. Jesus explains why in a sentence;
Matthew 11:23...I thank You Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise and revealing them to the simple.Matthew 13:14-15
So anyone who has been brainwashed in a church, Bible college or seminary and have believed all those teachings that do not have a sound scriptural support, are in fact, made incapable of a true understanding. Isaiah 29:9-12 also says how people who 'confuse themselves, will stay confused and the Lord has poured upon them a spirit of deep stupor'.
That is the reason that we who promote the truth of the entire Prophetic Word cannot change those whose minds are made up and fixated onto wrong beliefs. And that is how God wants it. Isaiah 29:13-14 Only AFTER the Lord has taken action, will the confused gain understanding and the obstinate accept instruction. Isaiah 29:24

keras said:

Ebed-melech said; What I know is this...when the Lord returns there is NO DOUBT we all are going to find out we where wrong at some particular point in what we believe about the end times. Quote

And why do we go wrong? God HAS given us all we need to know about how to live, our salvation and what will happen in the end times. Jesus explains why in a sentence;
Matthew 11:23...I thank You Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise and revealing them to the simple.Matthew 13:14-15
So anyone who has been brainwashed in a church, Bible college or seminary and have believed all those teachings that do not have a sound scriptural support, are in fact, made incapable of a true understanding. Isaiah 29:9-12 also says how people who 'confuse themselves, will stay confused and the Lord has poured upon them a spirit of deep stupor'.
That is the reason that we who promote the truth of the entire Prophetic Word cannot change those whose minds are made up and fixated onto wrong beliefs. And that is how God wants it. Isaiah 29:13-14 Only AFTER the Lord has taken action, will the confused gain understanding and the obstinate accept instruction. Isaiah 29:24

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Keras...you are a fallen being just like me. I know just from reading your posts you are UTTERLY in error in your eschatology. You're trying to apply fulfilled prophecy into today..and your thinking on Damascus still isn't happening.

As you show above in referring to "the hidden things"...you can't see them.

Keras,
you have no business putting people like EbedM in the same category as the ancient generation of Israel mentioned here who were adulterous, drunken priests etc. Ridiculous.

Jerico Miles said:

I think it has more to do with the scripture below as why some of us would take a stand to defend the truth in the bible. I know it would be a lot more pleasant and enjoyable in this forum without all the commotion.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

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This is exactly why preterists do what they do , they believe that you and I have been deceived and they are simply trying to help us to get back on track.
In actual fact they are doing exactly what your timothy quote is saying , hard to believe isn't it but I once had a preterist tell me that.

Biblewriter said:

I, and others, have no problem with opposing views of eschatology. But we have no patience with people that simply deny the entire study, claiming that what the Bible says is going to happen will never actually happen.

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Just a second. Don't you mean "those who deny" YOUR study?

Biblewriter said:

Nor do we have very much patience with people who twist prophecies into pretzels in order to make imaginary fits between the prophecies and non-matching historical events.

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Once again...don't you mean "twist" what YOU think a prophecy is saying?

BAB,
I like the road rage word-picture!

Biblewriter said:

I, and others, have no problem with opposing views of eschatology. But we have no patience with people that simply deny the entire study, claiming that what the Bible says is going to happen will never actually happen.

Nor do we have very much patience with people who twist prophecies into pretzels in order to make imaginary fits between the prophecies and non-matching historical events.

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I have learned patience over the years in dealing with those who have been deceived by Jewish fables--those whose doctrine has plagued us with so many false prophecies over the years, and who, in the last century or so, have severely undermined the influence Christians had over western societies--because they seem to be the ones in the most need of the Gospel and a return to the orthodoxy.

Maybe, in time, the Lord will teach you patience, Biblewriter.

Time for Church.

Biblewriter said:

I, and others, have no problem with opposing views of eschatology. But we have no patience with people that simply deny the entire study, claiming that what the Bible says is going to happen will never actually happen.

Nor do we have very much patience with people who twist prophecies into pretzels in order to make imaginary fits between the prophecies and non-matching historical events.

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ditto.

As I study eschatology, I keep in mind that when Jesus began his ministry he was opposed by those who thought they had it all figured out. They were the very ones who had Him delivered up and crucified which was God's foreordained plan.

I know for a fact NO ONE has a perfect eschatology. I do learn from others because God has ordained that we build one another up in the faith. However, it's God that tells us 2 Timothy 2:15:
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

That's what I'm going to do! I do not care if I'm in disagreement with what another thinks. I will listen to their POV and even give it consideration, but in the end if I believe the word of God teaches otherwise, that's where I stand!

Many who think they have the proper view *may* have came to Christ under that view, and simply will not depart from it because that's the teaching they've been under.

I was taught dispensational theology/eschatology as a young Christian, and the more I studied the scriptures the more I saw it had problems.

The OP says "Curious"...but the bottom line is...you can be curious all you want about my view of eschatology...you won't be standing before God with me, because God holds ME accountable to study and believe His word.
If it doesn't line up with yours...so be it!