Sir Robert Anderson's Dates ???

BABerean2

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I have recently reread part of Sir Robert Anderson’s book “The Coming Prince”. The book includes his calculations on the date of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem. Anderson’s work has been quoted extensively in the past by his fellow dispensationalists and others.

When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with.

The copy of the book I used is a 10th edition from Kregel Books, reprinted in 1957.

Anderson used 69 years of 360 days (173,880 days) reckoned from the 14th of March B.C. 445, ending on 6th of April A.D. 32 to arrive at the day Christ rode the donkey into Jerusalem. According to Anderson his start date was the decree issued by Artaxerxes, King of Persia, in the month of Nisan in the 20th year of his reign, i.e. B.C. 445. (from Preface to the Tenth Edition, page 13)

In reviewing Anderson’s work and that of others there seem to be some tremendous problems with Anderson’s calculations.

The first is the use of 360 day years instead of a year closer to earth’s orbital year which is closer to 365.25 days. At first glance a difference of only 5.25 days seems small. However, in a period of only 35 years the seasons would have been reversed due to a difference of a half year. This means it would have been winter in summer and vice versa. It would also mean that the descendants of Jacob were the worst calendar makers in the history of civilization. 35years x 5.25 day difference = 184 days

In reading some other sources, I found that the Israelites had to make a correction every 2 to 3 years to compensate for this error. However, Anderson did not consider the corrections, but stuck to his 360 day year.

On page 69 of the book, Anderson discusses the Sabbath year when Israel was to let the land lie fallow. If they had stayed on his 360 day calendar, they would not have known when to plant their crops.

Modern archeology has revised the date of Herod’s death, which in turn has revised the date of Christ’s birth closer to 4 BC.

Some have used the decree of 457 BC (Ezra 7:1-27) to arrive at a date of 26 or 27 AD as the date of Christ’s baptism by John the Baptist.

The Question is should Sir Robert Anderson’s dates be ignored and what is the date of Christ’s baptism based on modern scholarship?

 
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keras

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It was impossible for Anderson to ascertain the truth of the end times. Daniel 12:4 & 9 say the Words are to be kept sealed until the time of the end. Obviously his days was not that time, but now, in 2014; nearly 2000 years after Christ's first Advent, we are very close.
His error was to make a 360 day year fit our 365.24 day actual year. It seems from ancient calendars, that there was originally a 360 day year and tremendous cosmic disturbances altered it by slowing our orbit. Velikovsky researched this event, his book 'Worlds in Collision', gives ancient records of what happened then.
It is prophesied that once again God will 'shake the heavens and move the earth'. Isaiah 13:13, Haggai 2:22 This will make the prophesied time periods, 1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years of Daniel and Revelation come true.

Christ's baptism date is certain; 29 CE. Luke 3:1 makes it clear, Tiberius was made Emperor on August 19th 14 CE. So probably Jesus was baptised in late 29 CE and crucified at Passover in 33 CE.
 
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Jipsah

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The Question is should Sir Robert Anderson’s dates be ignored
Seeing that they're based on a variety of bogus data, yeah.

and what is the date of Christ’s baptism based on modern scholarship?
What difference does it make?
 
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Gideon

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BABerean2 said:
I have recently reread part of Sir Robert Anderson’s book “The Coming Prince”. The book includes his calculations on the date of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem. Anderson’s work has been quoted extensively in the past by his fellow dispensationalists and others.

Your topic will probably get a few yawns :sleep: from modern futurists who dont know where their theories come from, and yet, these calculations are the very basis of the 7-year endtime scenario. Darby and others dreamed up the doctrine, but Anderson supplied the calendrical 'proof.'
 
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BABerean2

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Your topic will probably get a few yawns :sleep: from modern futurists who dont know where their theories come from, and yet, these calculations are the very basis of the 7-year endtime scenario. Darby and others dreamed up the doctrine, but Anderson supplied the calendrical 'proof.'

:amen:
 
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Gideon

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Andersons theory may not have been so influential if it wasn't for Dallas Theological Seminary supporting it. However, the 445 BC date was known to be faulty so in 1973 Harold Hoehner of DTS adjusted Andersons theory to make it more presentable. His book is called, 'Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ.'

Hoehners adjustment is the basis of Thomas Ice who is the leading dispensational 'expert' in this subject.

Below is a very good rebuttal of the Anderson/Hoehner/Ice theory. You will need to forgive the authors 7th-day Adventist bias which has problems of its own. That aside, the article is well worth reading. Dr. Harold Hoehner's Refinements of Anderson's Theory: Are They Sound?

I would also like to offer a recommendation regarding your comment, "When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with." 'The Atonement Clock' tracks the dates of Sabbath years (yes, on the real calendar) from Moses to Messiah including the 70 weeks. I think you would find it very interesting.

:)
 
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BABerean2

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Andersons theory may not have been so influential if it wasn't for Dallas Theological Seminary supporting it. However, the 445 BC date was known to be faulty so in 1973 Harold Hoehner of DTS adjusted Andersons theory to make it more presentable. His book is called, 'Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ.'

Hoehners adjustment is the basis of Thomas Ice who is the leading dispensational 'expert' in this subject.

Below is a very good rebuttal of the Anderson/Hoehner/Ice theory. You will need to forgive the authors 7th-day Adventist bias which has problems of its own. That aside, the article is well worth reading. Dr. Harold Hoehner's Refinements of Anderson's Theory: Are They Sound?

I would also like to offer a recommendation regarding your comment, "When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with." 'The Atonement Clock' tracks the dates of Sabbath years (yes, on the real calendar) from Moses to Messiah including the 70 weeks. I think you would find it very interesting.

:)

Thanks Brother Gideon,

I ordered the Atonement Clock and read the article.

The date of 457 BC from Ezra chapter 7 and the baptism date of 27 AD seem to be the revised dates that make more sense, due to the death of Herod around 4 BC.
 
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Interplanner

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Keras,
"the end of time" in Daniel was not us. It was the Messiah's coming, or the end of the 70 sevens.

This is the same kind of mistake as opening Mt 24:1 and saying that it is first of all about us, instead of defining things as they would have. Or the Thess material.
 
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keras

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Keras,
"the end of time" in Daniel was not us. It was the Messiah's coming, or the end of the 70 sevens.

This is the same kind of mistake as opening Mt 24:1 and saying that it is first of all about us, instead of defining things as they would have. Or the Thess material.

The plain, indisputable fact that the Messiah has not Returned as yet, proves the 70th 'week remains to be fulfilled.

Yes, Matthew 24:1 did tell the disciples about what would happen in 69/70 CE. But Jesus goes on to prophesy about 'birth pangs of the new age'. Something we are experiencing at an increasing rate over the last 100 years, in fact exactly from 1914, the start of the 1st World War.
You say: we who look to a future literal fulfilment of the prophesies are making a mistake. But anyone with preterist beliefs, is left without the hope of God's promises to His people during the troubles ahead.
IP, you know history; when has there been a time without some dramatic change coming to a empire or kingdom? America has had a good run- how much longer?
Isaiah 34:1-5 Listen you nations, attend to these Words, all you peoples: The Lord's anger is against all the nations, His wrath against their military, they are all given over to the slaughter....The sky will roll up like a scroll....for My sword will appear in the heavens and will descend in judgement onto all I have doomed for destruction. Paralleled by Rev. 6:11-17, the Sixth Seal.
Hebrews 12:26 Once again, I will shake the earth....
 
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Gideon

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keras said:
The plain, indisputable fact that the Messiah has not Returned as yet, proves the 70th 'week remains to be fulfilled.

If I understand your first post correctly, you do not agree with Anderson's calculations. Anderson was the person who provided the count to the end of the 69th week on Palm Sunday AD 32. From their he postulated a gap to a future 70th week. If you don't agree with him, where do you find the future 70th week mentioned in the Bible?
 
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keras

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If I understand your first post correctly, you do not agree with Anderson's calculations. Anderson was the person who provided the count to the end of the 69th week on Palm Sunday AD 32. From their he postulated a gap to a future 70th week. If you don't agree with him, where do you find the future 70th week mentioned in the Bible?

Thanks Gideon, as I make clear in #9, the 70th 'week' remains to be fulfilled.
Sorry my previous post was not clear about this. Even though Sir R.A.'s calculations were close, his use of 360 day years is wrong - a year is now a complete orbit of the earth around the sun = 365.24 days. I believe the Palm Sunday, etc, was in 33 CE, not 32.
The 70th week is as described in Revelation: 2 periods of 1260 days, 2 of 42 months, 2 of 3.5 years. These DO fit with a 360 day year and the reason for that is; after the forthcoming Day of wrath, the Sixth Seal, the earth will be 'shaken from her place' Isaiah 13:13, Hebrews 12:26, Psalm 18:7. Our orbit will be speeded up by the hit of the Lord's 'rage poured out in fire'. A Coronal Mass Ejection sunstrike; Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, Nahum 1:-6, Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7
 
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ebedmelech

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Andersons theory may not have been so influential if it wasn't for Dallas Theological Seminary supporting it. However, the 445 BC date was known to be faulty so in 1973 Harold Hoehner of DTS adjusted Andersons theory to make it more presentable. His book is called, 'Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ.'

Hoehners adjustment is the basis of Thomas Ice who is the leading dispensational 'expert' in this subject.

Below is a very good rebuttal of the Anderson/Hoehner/Ice theory. You will need to forgive the authors 7th-day Adventist bias which has problems of its own. That aside, the article is well worth reading. Dr. Harold Hoehner's Refinements of Anderson's Theory: Are They Sound?

I would also like to offer a recommendation regarding your comment, "When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with." 'The Atonement Clock' tracks the dates of Sabbath years (yes, on the real calendar) from Moses to Messiah including the 70 weeks. I think you would find it very interesting.

:)
Which is why "seminary" is *sometimes* called *cemetary*! :)
 
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Gideon

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keras said:
... a year is now a complete orbit of the earth around the sun = 365.24 days. I believe the Palm Sunday, etc, was in 33 CE, not 32.

So, you are saying that the first 69 weeks were counted on our regular solar calendar cycle. I agree. And you place the end of the 69th week in March/April 33 CE. My preference is 30 CE, but let us assume you are right.

Let us use your data to count 69 weeks back from 33 CE. 69*7=483 years. Therefore, the start of the 70th week by your reckoning had to be 33-483-1= 451BCE.

Was a word issued in 451 BCE (Dan.9:25) starting the count of weeks?
 
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keras

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Due to the fact of the historical record being suspect and inadequate, it is virtually impossible to be sure of the start of the 70 weeks Then, even the dates of Christ's ministry are contentious, so the whole exercise is fruitless.
It just points up the truth of Jesus saying: You do not know the day or the hour...
But we CAN know the season and for sure, we are in the end time of this age season!
 
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Gideon

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The historical records of the Persian period had a few problems in the past but they are pretty well settled now. For example, Artaxerxes 7th year (when his decree was made) was 458 BC or 457 BC. Google it up bro. :idea: It certainly wasn't as late as 451 BC.

Also, most scholars now prefer the 30 AD date for Christ death over the 31, 32, and 33AD ones. There are good arguments for this.
 
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BABerean2

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Andersons theory may not have been so influential if it wasn't for Dallas Theological Seminary supporting it. However, the 445 BC date was known to be faulty so in 1973 Harold Hoehner of DTS adjusted Andersons theory to make it more presentable. His book is called, 'Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ.'

Hoehners adjustment is the basis of Thomas Ice who is the leading dispensational 'expert' in this subject.

Below is a very good rebuttal of the Anderson/Hoehner/Ice theory. You will need to forgive the authors 7th-day Adventist bias which has problems of its own. That aside, the article is well worth reading. Dr. Harold Hoehner's Refinements of Anderson's Theory: Are They Sound?

I would also like to offer a recommendation regarding your comment, "When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with." 'The Atonement Clock' tracks the dates of Sabbath years (yes, on the real calendar) from Moses to Messiah including the 70 weeks. I think you would find it very interesting.

:)

I got my copy of The Atonement Clock.

I can already see that it contains the truth and is a tremendous blessing.

I plan to order several other copies for friends and family.



Thanks again for speaking the truth, Brother Gideon.
 
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Biblewriter

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Your topic will probably get a few yawns :sleep: from modern futurists who dont know where their theories come from, and yet, these calculations are the very basis of the 7-year endtime scenario. Darby and others dreamed up the doctrine, but Anderson supplied the calendrical 'proof.'

Actually, although sir Robert Anderson's "to the day" is indeed questionable, the doctrine of a seven year tribulation is not based on that calculation, nor did it originate with Darby.

A future fulfillment of Daniel's seventieth week was referred to in the very oldest Christian commentary on Bible prophecy (of any significant length) that has survived to the present day. This was the last twelve chapters of the very famous work by Irenaeus titled "Against Heresies," which is thought to have been written between 186 and 188 AD.

And the fact that this entire week remained to be fulfilled in the future was very plainly taught in the very oldest Christian commentary on scripture that has survived to the present day. This is a commentary on Daniel written by Hyppolytus, and is thought to have been written between 202 and 211 A.D.

So enough of this nonsense that this was "invented" by Darby.
 
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Biblewriter

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Due to the fact of the historical record being suspect and inadequate, it is virtually impossible to be sure of the start of the 70 weeks Then, even the dates of Christ's ministry are contentious, so the whole exercise is fruitless.

Anyone who has, as I have, devoted any significant amount of time to actually studying ancient records, knows that this is absolutely correct. We do know approximate times when ancient events occurred. But the only times when they can be determined with any degree of certainty is when the document in question ties it to an astronomical event whose exact date can be calculated.

The ancient documents often contradict each other, and only rarely make reference to events whose exact dates can be determined with any degree of certainty.
 
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If I understand your first post correctly, you do not agree with Anderson's calculations. Anderson was the person who provided the count to the end of the 69th week on Palm Sunday AD 32. From their he postulated a gap to a future 70th week. If you don't agree with him, where do you find the future 70th week mentioned in the Bible?
The words of the prophecy in question are:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." (Daniel 9:24)

First, we need to understand that, although most of our English translations say seventy weeks, the Hebrew word translated weeks was shabuwa' (word number 7620 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary) This word was used in the Old Testament for both a period of seven days and a period of seven years. Only the context could show whether days of years was meant. An in this case, the context clearly shows that the meaning could not even possibly been days. So it is not simply interpretation to take seventy weeks as meaning 490 years. This is a fully legitimate meaning of the Hebrew words used here.

Daniel was told, "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (Daniel 9:26) Here we have sixty-nine weeks, or 483 years, from the going forth of the commandment to Messiah the Prince.

But now the Divinely inspired account contains a break. We read, "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." (Daniel 9:25-26)

Two things were to happen after the sixty-two week second part of this account. And we know that both of them indeed happened exactly as explicitly stated. “Messiah” would “be cut off,” and “the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.” Messiah was indeed cut off, and the city and the sanctuary were indeed destroyed. We know from history that these two events did not happen within a seven year period. Most historians feel that our calendar is in error, and the actual date of Jesus’ birth was 4 BC. Since Jesus lived thirty-three years, that puts his death in 29 A.D. But the city was not destroyed until 70 A.D., forty-one years after that. So even if there are small errors in the accepted dates of history, we absolutely know that “the city and the sanctuary” were not destroyed in the same week (seven year period) that our Lord was crucified. But we need to notice that both of these events are presented before the last week is even mentioned. So here we see an absolutely undeniable break in the scriptural account of the seventy weeks.

But the last week is treated differently. It does not even say that this is the seventieth week. The only reason we know that it is the seventieth week is because all the rest of the weeks had already been used up. So this week had to be the seventieth one. We read, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

Now many imagine that this verse speaks of the cross. They want to interpret the word “for” in this verse as “in,” and claim that this was speaking of Jesus confirming God’s covenant with us “in” the seventieth week, and claim that Jesus was crucified at the middle of the seventieth week. But even if history were wrong by so many years, this interpretation does violence to the structure of the prophecy. For the last week is not even mentioned until after the two events that were to take place after the sixty-ninth week.

But an end time covenant that will not be fulfilled is clearly mentioned in other Old Testament prophecies. One of these is Isaiah 28:14-18, where we read, “Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.”

Again, in Isaiah 57:7-9 we read, “Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice. Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it. And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.”

So we see that the scriptures indeed clearly foretell a future covenant that God will not allow to be fulfilled. Daniel 9:27 is only one of several places where this covenant in mentioned.
 
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