Judaic Ties To Zoroastrianism / Zoroastrian Ties To Christianity

Let me start by saying i don't get around the forum much except in outrech under christianity and world religion - also that i'm here to learn, i would like to get some data. I'm wondering about what the date of the books of the bible are, like daniel? Is job the oldest? After daniel and in the latter prophets didn't zoroastrian cyrus help build the jewish temple? What date are we looking at there? During this collaboration together of the jews and zoroastrians did the pharasee doctrine emerge? Daniel being made cheif of the magi, could the zoroastrians heard of a savior then from him? What are the dates for the manuscripts we can trace this from as far as christian, hebrew and zoroastrian dates go?

We find the magi asking about the king of the jews in st. matthew. From studying zoroastrianism some i find the savior is more universal - it's amazing their preists, the magi, show up knowing the star no one else knew of then - i beleive the geometry of their form of astrology and they worshipped jesus offering him gifts. Thanks in advance, somethings i always been curious about. The dates are out there but not came across many familiar with this that can sumarize it and help me get a clearer perspective.

Meta Tron said:

Did Cyrus help to rebuild the Temple? Yes and no.
There is no historical evidence of any edict or decree issued from Cyrus to that effect, but he was credited with a wide policy of allowing the nations under his control to worship God or gods respectively, in accordance with their own religions under the assumption that doing so makes conquests less warlike and easier to govern.
I think it would be more correct to say that he "allowed" and maybe even subsidized the reconstruction.

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Cool! thanks for your opinion...

RevelationTestament said:

I believe the oldest we currently have are the books of the Torah - but it is not known when they were written out of the oral history. Daniel actually belongs to the "late minor prophets."
No

Probably not. He allowed Nehemiah to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city at Nehemiah's request.

This was actually the start of the 490 yr period addressed in Daniel 9 and was about 450 B.C.

No. No known "collaboration" and unknown when the pharisees arose. Consult Jewish history.
The Chaldeans heard of God through Daniel and other captives. Daniel was never a magi.
Don't know specifically to what you allude.

That is a presumption of later history. All the scriptures tell us is that there were wise men from the east who gave gifts to the Savior.
Please provide a Persian record reflecting the study of such a star.

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450 bc?

This heavenly event was to only those that knew the stars, right?

RevelationTestament said:

No. It is from the Bible.
Let me be more precise:

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah [Anointed one] the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublous times. And after threescore (60) and two weeks shall Messiah be cutoff, but not for himself: and the people of the prince [Rome] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [Titus destroyed the temple]; and the end thereof shall be with a flood [again a flood being the workings of Satan in men], and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week [3 1/2 days or years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation [the END], and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. [The last sentence has also been interpreted as: "and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." Oxford Annotated Bible] Daniel 9:24-7.

I will start by saying Rome is the abomination which maketh desolate. The Roman Church is the Great Harlot and Mother of Abominations of the Earth. At the decreed end the desolator will receive the judgments of Revelation 18. Now let us determine when the 70 weeks start. After Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, the Hebrews returned to Jerusalem in two main migrations, but Daniel stayed in the capitol of the Persians. The first migration under Zerubbabel had commission to rebuild the Temple [known as the Temple of Zerubbabel]. The commission came through king Cyrus of Persia in his first year to build an house at Jerusalem to the LORD God. Cyrus the king brought the vessels of gold and silver king Nebuchadnezzar had taken, and gave them to Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah (Zerubbabel), to be taken to Jerusalem. Ezra 1. Zerubbabel led forth the families listed in Ezra 2 to Judah. By the seventh month the people were in their cities, and gathered in Jerusalem where Zerubbabel directed them first in building an altar. Then according to the grant of Cyrus king of Persia, they began collecting wood and materials to rebuild the Temple. Ezra 3. Apparently the rebuilding effort stopped or slowed during the eight year reign of Cambyses. In the sixth month of the second year of Darius the spirit of the LORD was stirred in Zerubbabel through the words of Haggai, to finish the Temple. Apparently, by this time Zerubbabel was recognized as governor of Judah. Haggai 1. The Temple was finished under Darius, king of Persia (who renewed the decree of Cyrus or possibly Darius II), on the third day of the month Adar in the sixth year of Darius. Ezra 6. The second migration returned under Ezra, the scribe, who left Babylon the first day of the first month in the seventh year of king Artaxerxes, who ruled after Darius I, and therefore after Daniel's account. Ezra 7:7-9. They were commissioned by the LORD and king Artaxerxes to beautify the Temple by a letter found in Ezra 7.
However, in the twentieth year of king Artaxerxes, Nehemiah learned of the troublous times of his people: "The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire." Nehemiah 1:1-3. King Artaxerxes saw his troubled countenance, and Nehemiah told him it was because Jerusalem lay waste, and the gates lay burnt. So the king prepared a letter to the keeper of his forest to cut timber for the rebuilding, and sent Nehemiah to Jerusalem. Nehemiah 2:1-8. When he arrived, he found the city in a state of waste. He told the people what God had put in his heart to do, and called the people to rebuild. Nehemiah 2:17-8. But these were troublous times. When the Arabians, the Ammonites, the Ashdodites, and Tobiah, and Sanballat heard of the rebuilding, they came to fight against Jerusalem, so Nehemiah "...set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows." Nehemiah 4:7,8,13. "So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days." Nehemiah 6:15. "Now the city was large and great: but the people were few therein, and the houses were not builded." Nehemiah 7:4.
Cyrus II (the Great) reigned from 549-530 B.C.; Cambyses II from 530-522 B.C.; Darius from 522-486 B.C.; and Xerxes from 486-465 B.C. The commandment to rebuild the walls and the city was to Nehemiah in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes. Artaxerxes I ruled from 465 B.C. to 424 B.C.[1] His twentieth year was 445 B.C. This is about when Old Testament prophecy stopped. This is the beginning of the seventy weeks, which commence with seven weeks (7 x 7 = 49 days/years) to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (when the walls are rebuilt) unto the Messiah, which brings us to 396 B.C. After the second period of threescore and two weeks the Messiah is cut off. Sixty two weeks equals 434 days or prophetic years, which brings us to 38 Anno Domini (according to Roman dating). After His ascension our Lord continued to periodically speak to His apostles, and personally called Paul as a disciple. He then was cut off for awhile, and the Holy Spirit did His work. So the third and last period of the seventy weeks is not consecutive. "Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that is was the word of the LORD. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." Zechariah 11:9-14.

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Thanks! For your scripture and interpretation of it all! How far back do you trace the belief of the one who would come? Where does it come from?

RevelationTestament said:

No. It is from the Bible.
Let me be more precise:

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah [Anointed one] the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublous times. And after threescore (60) and two weeks shall Messiah be cutoff, but not for himself: and the people of the prince [Rome] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [Titus destroyed the temple]; and the end thereof shall be with a flood [again a flood being the workings of Satan in men], and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week [3 1/2 days or years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation [the END], and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. [The last sentence has also been interpreted as: "and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." Oxford Annotated Bible] Daniel 9:24-7.

I will start by saying Rome is the abomination which maketh desolate. The Roman Church is the Great Harlot and Mother of Abominations of the Earth. At the decreed end the desolator will receive the judgments of Revelation 18. Now let us determine when the 70 weeks start. After Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, the Hebrews returned to Jerusalem in two main migrations, but Daniel stayed in the capitol of the Persians. The first migration under Zerubbabel had commission to rebuild the Temple [known as the Temple of Zerubbabel]. The commission came through king Cyrus of Persia in his first year to build an house at Jerusalem to the LORD God. Cyrus the king brought the vessels of gold and silver king Nebuchadnezzar had taken, and gave them to Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah (Zerubbabel), to be taken to Jerusalem. Ezra 1. Zerubbabel led forth the families listed in Ezra 2 to Judah. By the seventh month the people were in their cities, and gathered in Jerusalem where Zerubbabel directed them first in building an altar. Then according to the grant of Cyrus king of Persia, they began collecting wood and materials to rebuild the Temple. Ezra 3. Apparently the rebuilding effort stopped or slowed during the eight year reign of Cambyses. In the sixth month of the second year of Darius the spirit of the LORD was stirred in Zerubbabel through the words of Haggai, to finish the Temple. Apparently, by this time Zerubbabel was recognized as governor of Judah. Haggai 1. The Temple was finished under Darius, king of Persia (who renewed the decree of Cyrus or possibly Darius II), on the third day of the month Adar in the sixth year of Darius. Ezra 6. The second migration returned under Ezra, the scribe, who left Babylon the first day of the first month in the seventh year of king Artaxerxes, who ruled after Darius I, and therefore after Daniel's account. Ezra 7:7-9. They were commissioned by the LORD and king Artaxerxes to beautify the Temple by a letter found in Ezra 7.
However, in the twentieth year of king Artaxerxes, Nehemiah learned of the troublous times of his people: "The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire." Nehemiah 1:1-3. King Artaxerxes saw his troubled countenance, and Nehemiah told him it was because Jerusalem lay waste, and the gates lay burnt. So the king prepared a letter to the keeper of his forest to cut timber for the rebuilding, and sent Nehemiah to Jerusalem. Nehemiah 2:1-8. When he arrived, he found the city in a state of waste. He told the people what God had put in his heart to do, and called the people to rebuild. Nehemiah 2:17-8. But these were troublous times. When the Arabians, the Ammonites, the Ashdodites, and Tobiah, and Sanballat heard of the rebuilding, they came to fight against Jerusalem, so Nehemiah "...set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows." Nehemiah 4:7,8,13. "So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days." Nehemiah 6:15. "Now the city was large and great: but the people were few therein, and the houses were not builded." Nehemiah 7:4.
Cyrus II (the Great) reigned from 549-530 B.C.; Cambyses II from 530-522 B.C.; Darius from 522-486 B.C.; and Xerxes from 486-465 B.C. The commandment to rebuild the walls and the city was to Nehemiah in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes. Artaxerxes I ruled from 465 B.C. to 424 B.C.[1] His twentieth year was 445 B.C. This is about when Old Testament prophecy stopped. This is the beginning of the seventy weeks, which commence with seven weeks (7 x 7 = 49 days/years) to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (when the walls are rebuilt) unto the Messiah, which brings us to 396 B.C. After the second period of threescore and two weeks the Messiah is cut off. Sixty two weeks equals 434 days or prophetic years, which brings us to 38 Anno Domini (according to Roman dating). After His ascension our Lord continued to periodically speak to His apostles, and personally called Paul as a disciple. He then was cut off for awhile, and the Holy Spirit did His work. So the third and last period of the seventy weeks is not consecutive. "Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that is was the word of the LORD. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." Zechariah 11:9-14.

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Thanks! Sounds like what i was inquiring about...

Anto9us said:

That's a lot of good dates and stuff provided by Revelation Testament.

As to the "wise men" - yeah - they were Magi from The East and they were going by Stars

when they got to Jerusalem and conferred with some Jewish "prophecy Giants" there - the Jews told them it was in Bethlehem that Messiah would be born ( a prophecy from Micah - ch 5 I think)

The Bible just says "wise men" plural

it denotes three types of GIFTS (gold, frankincense, myrrh)

but whether there were two or nine "wise men" (magi) is not given

so the popular "3 wise men " is not confirmed in Scripture

The Magi were NOT "at the manger' so the nativity scenes of popular Christmas scenes are bunk (imo) No magi at the manger with the shepherds and camels and cattle -- Magi found TODDLER JESUS -- not BABY JESUS --

IN A HOUSE

later on - NOT when He was a baby in swaddling clothes as the shepherds found Him

70 weeks prophecy in Daniel is astonishing because - regardless of whenever Daniel was written, either way it was WELL BEFORE Jesus -- the 70 weeks stuff goes from the "decrees" of Persian Kings right up to the death of Christ from one of the decrees to rebuild Temple/walls

and people quibble about maybe 3 1/2 years difference - but it is still pretty astonishing

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Yea cool. Sounds similar to my take on it all.

Thanks!

The house i would referance as symbolic imagery. At the same time important to keep in mind ...

Zstar said:

450 bc?

This heavenly event was to only those that knew the stars, right?

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The rest were insiders like family and friends except the magi. Anyone know of which angel appeared to joseph, was it in a dream or literally? I gather the shepherd event the angels literally appeared.

I'm copying and pasting the replyies i got here now to read and study. I was worried about posting here that you peeps would be rude to me because of my beliefs but glad i did, found some cool info - i'm very busy so it will take me a bit but i will post an in-depth summary of my conclusions possibly, we'll see but i apprecte your posts and inquiries in return i'll give you a link to my research on the subject and more importantly you can find referance links there for you to look into the data yourself in case i don't touch all points inquired of me in this post.

https://sites.google.com/site/beliefsofmagi/

Food for thought - tracing judiasm of that time period with its pharasee, persian influence, i find fascinating we have jesus use paradise himself and i'm enjoying the data upon all this you all gave me.

I'm just wondering about others thoughts on this topic, would like to compare them to my current conclusions especially the zoroastrian ties to christianity part which i've studied much more than the judaic elements by the way so a welcome refresh here but in passing study i have found that they all are intertwined around the time of jesus even other types of priests could assume the term magi it could mean anything after this time period but the persian ones were the reknowned ones to those in the know the zoroastrian priests are called mobeds nowadays. I'll paste the way i look at the zoroastrian-christian ties as consisting myself at the same time the groups of 'magi' are more ancient than zoroaster who gathered his group of them together while there was a constant dis-harmony with the others. As advisors to the ones in rule of the kingdoms, manipulation of power for personal gain was and is a tell tale of underligning dysfunctional mind-sets of those who did not stay focused. Some spread good some evil, like jesus said from the thoughts that their heart contained, zoroaster formed the group desginated the good religion although it is dabated if he was more of a philosopher than prophet.

*Jesus is the "father" of Christianity.
*The Nazarene sect was the "father" of Jesus.
*The Essene sect was the "father" of the Nazarenes.
*The Magussean sect was the "father" of the Essenes.
*The Good Religion was the "father" of the Magussean sect.

The Good Religion of Zoroaster is the Great-Great-Great Grand-Father of Christianity. So much born into cultural zoroastrianism due to an allegence to a king *surprised?* are a closed community, mind you these magi - mobeds - recorded the old avestan even though they couldn't read it because of tradition and when compared to sankrit scholars finally could derive meaning there was a composition of a rhyming nature, i'm not a scholar but i've heard it stated this adds to how complete the very intruiging and inspiring text is without any lost data or added data that would throw the numeric rhyming system off in the original. Modern zoroastrianism uses these 'gathas' as there only text really discarding most of the valuable thought on the savior, which i'll include at the end of this post. I believe joseph and mary did take jesus to the land of ancient knowledge - egypt probably funded by the gold of the magi but those magi combining the zoroastrian base with astrological *star* knowledge cared far to much about jesus than to simply respectfully go back to their country another route without making future plans to see the child, no dissing st. matthew i know he did the best he could do to convey the whole story which is quite an amazing and inspiring one we find in jesus.

The christmas story we find in nativity scenes is a combination of matthew and luke from my understanding, i would place the magi off east arriving as soon as possible lol - wonder how long it took them, did't herod slay infants 2 and under? What influental persons, male or female, to get away from that evil king intact. God has a way of bringing things to pass that need to be how horrible the ancient society had to be a subject of this animal wearing kings clothes, hope he had a deserving fitting end and or is repaying for the life he wasted and realize the extent of his confusionabout morality and doing unto others. It's time for society to wake up and ellect leaders to estabish good, maybe we can finally eliminate these tyrant types we have seen for ages from having any power at all except it's chosen by a concencus of the people. Let the lord and the leader be chosen zoroaster said so the chosen one can rebilibate those who have been wrongly treated, a simple but key element of zoroastrianism in it's gathic form.

Zoroastrianism is my base foundation with a heavy sprinkle of the astrology arts of the magi whom i find inspiring i love jesus so yes i am firmly christian too but for me in a very strict use of the term since i have issues with the bible as without error don't get me wrong i believe the word of god is there from the research i did on bible codes and i love the story of christmas but make everyday christmas in my heart and focus on learning about jesus from what i can comprehend him teaching from the four gospels so that's my christian foundation by the way. I got saved in my early 20's and started seeking the truth about god which i never would have imagined where it would lead, what a ride. I know a few zoroastrians and others very familiar with it if i can't answer your inquiry about it and or on more of what was taught by zoroaster i hope again my web-page and resourse links could do so in my abscence.

Here is a little info i learned about zoroaster's date although ledgend has it that zoroaster was a given name for the community leader lineage of the group he founded in antiquity, pre-history - The gathas come from somewhere and the content speaks for itself i love how they are short and simple, just like one would want a foundation to be so it doesn't topple. Zoroaster's birth is shrouded in mystery, Greek sources place him as far back as 6,000 to 7,000 B.C., while modern scholars place his birth between 1,500 to 1,800 B.C. Oral tradition among Parsis places him between 4,000 to 5,000 B.C.

Maybe we'll be able to find the knowledge in stone our ancestors left us long ago which is underwater now since the melting of ice began around 10,000 years ago - there is probably so much to find, i've heard of underwater taverns full of books with metallic pages and think we are astrologically moving towards enlightenment as knowledge is increasing and the teachings of the mysterious 2000 year age of religion we finally are getting a glimpse to what it meant all along. Before that was the age of warfare and we are still learning democracy instead of warfare, the light of enlightenment will illuminate this well but like an age it peaks here or there and takes time.

Thanks again for a good welcome outside my comfort zone hope i answered some of what was inquired of me, you all took time to research and write posts for me so i wanted to try to write enough back for you all without being able to go over every point until i research your posts better.

Hope you found what you inquired about here if not please point it out to me, sorry for being pressed for time before, happens a lot to me, and the short replies hope i made it up to you all without this being long and boring lacking in any usable data . . . please by all means carry on and thanks again.

. . .Oh, here's the zoroastrian texts about a savior that are my favorite. A universal concept for them instead of just for the jews although of course god wouldn't leave the jews or anyone out - seems closest to original thought concerning the matter of the 'tie' between the two and i can see jesus in everyone of them, can you?

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"Concerning the marvellousness of Soshyant as to splendour and glory of person, it says that 'when the coming of the last rotation of those rotations of the seasons of Aushedar-mah occurs, the man Soshyant is born whose food is spiritual and body sunny (that is, his body is as radiant as the sun);' also this, that 'he looks on all sides with six-eyed power (6-doisarih), and sees the remedy for persecution by the fiend.'

That will cleave unto the victorious Saoshyant and his helpers, when he shall restore the world, which will (thenceforth) never grow old and never die, never decaying and never rotting, ever living and ever increasing, and master of its wish, when the dead will rise, when life and immortality will come, and the world will be restored at its wish;

The renovation arises; and the triumph of the completion, which is through an ordinance by Soshyant, is through what occurs when through the ordinance there is thus a decree which sets aside all distress from the creatures, and gives the ordinance to the whole material existence, that which is living and also that which is dead.

Soshyant, -- the last bringer of religion for mankind from God and the embellisher of the world through religious deeds, -- he, who will make mankind walk in purity, -- is the chief and lord of the last men; he, in accordance with the will and desire of the Creator, will be the bringer of His religion at the time of the End, and will be the giver of perfect beauty to the work of rendering the world pure, free from harm and fit for paradise, -- which work was (first commenced) through Gayomard.

That maiden, who is Gobak-abu, walks up to the water; she that is the mother of that testifying Soshyant who is the guide to conveying away the opposition of the destroyer, and her former lineage is from Vohu-roko-i Frahanyan in the family of Isadvastar, the son of Zartosht that is brought forth by Arang. 16. 'That maiden whose title is All-overpowerer is thus all-overpowering, because through giving birth she brings forth him who overpowers all, both the affliction owing to demons, and also that owing to mankind.' 17. Then she sits in that water, when she is fifteen years old, and it introduces into the girl him 'whose name is the Triumphant Benefiter, and his title is the Body-maker; such a benefiter as benefits (savinedo) the whole embodied existence, and such a body-maker alike possessing body and possessing life, as petitions about the disturbance of the embodied existences and mankind.' 18. Not before that has she associated with men; nor yet afterwards, when she becomes pregnant, has she done so before the time when she gives birth. 19. When that man becomes thirty years old, the sun stands still in the zenith of the sky for the duration of thirty days and nights, and it arrives again at that place where it was appointed by allotment.

He that is united with (or is a companion of) the (good) religion, attains to such desires as will exist in the advantageous one, (i.e. Soshyant) the (future) revealer of the (good) religion unto the people of this world.

The renovation of the universe in the words of Ohrmazd to Zartosht, thus: 'I have produced the effecter of the renovation, the causer of righteousness, Soshyant, of whom mankind say that he does not come; and yet he will come, for the righteous, with that glory which becomes all-brilliance.'

Soshyant will obtain the ownership of both these khorehs (majesties) together, for the purpose of propagating the good religion, And he will perform all beneficial things relating to the matter. Again, the immense efforts which will be kept up by him will he (directed) to the work of giving prosperity to the generous, power to the wise and justice to the just.

The importance of Zoroastrianism has always been qualitative rather than quantitative. Its highest significance lies in the influence it has exercised on the development of at least three other great religions. First, it made contributions to Judaism, for between 538 B.C. (when the Persians under Cyrus captured Babylonia and set free the Jews exiled in that land) and 330 B.C. (when the Persian Empire was destroyed by Alexander) the Jews were directly under the suzerainty of the Zoroastrians. And it was from the suzerains that the Jews first learnt to believe in an Ahriman, a personal devil, whom they called in Hebrew, Satan. Possibly from them, too, the Jews first learnt to believe in a heaven and hell, and in a judgment Day for each individual (Lewis Browne, This Believing World, New York: MacMillan Company, 1926, pp. 216, 217).

Not Sure this is in World Religion but trying to explore this thought more none the less.

lesliedellow said:

Nobody knows for sure when the biblical books were written. The truth probably lies somewhere between the most extreme skepticism and the most extreme conservatism.

It is possible that some of Judaism's beliefs were imported from Zoroastrianism, but to make a big deal of that is to fall into the genetic fallacy. The important thing about a belief is not where it comes from, but whether or not it is true. There is no reason why God should not have imported a true belief in a forthcoming Messiah into Judaism via Zoroastrianism.

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I'm just wondering about others opinions on the matter...

Thanks!

Thinking about things... I agree the truth is most likely between two extremes. Don't think Jesus meant any thing against that, finding truth - just those that appear one way and oppisite confusing and deceiving who he addressed from the Word. We all are a meld of our Ancestors whether we believe it or not.

The dates of 1000AD and 600AD confuses me - even BC or BCE date wise about Solomon or Zoroaster. Are there any other dates out there? I like the contradiction you mention about animals on fire - yea it's great to cook with which is the lowest form of fire, there are others that are kept pure - imagine the light from them. I choose Zoroaster and his philosphical poems we are given from history above those of Solomon from the Bible but thank you.